New(ish) tank, multitude of issues, need advice.

[Kwhite]

Hi. I'm new here. Found this forum in my search for answers, hopefully someone here can give me some insight. I don't even know where to start, so I guess I'll start at the beginning. I'm sorry if its long.

We got a 25 gallon tank for Christmas. It's our first venture into keeping fish. We set it up and let it run without fish for about 8 days. Then we bought our first group of fish: 3 neons, 2 black fin tetras, a little brown algae eater, a plecostomus, and a Betta. A week went by and everything was going great, so we went and got 3 more neons, a Dalmatian Molly, and a Gourami. Within 2 days our fish had Ich. It spread like wildfire, and even though Petsmart gave us medication which seemed to cure it, by the end of our Fishpocalypse we had lost all our fish except the plecostomus, the brown algae eater, and one black fin tetra.

As if this wasn't bad enough, the table that we had the tank on decided it cannot bear the weight and started to bow. We didn't have anything else to put the tank on so I bought a 10 gallon tank from a friend and set it up. I didn't feel we had enough time to let the tank cycle before moving the fish so I pumped water from the big tank to the small one and let the heater run for 1 day then moved the fish.
They seemed to do ok for about a day, then they became very lethargic. I was trying to figure out why and discovered the brand new heater I had out in there had quit working. The water was ice cold. I kind of panicked and pumped out half the cold water and replaced it with warm water that was still in the big tank. (I had left about 1/3 of the water in the big tank with the heat on, I'm trying to get a live plant bulb to sprout). So I also moved the heater from that tank to the smaller one to keep them warm.

This was day before yesterday, and they still aren't acting right. They alternate between swimming frantically around the tank and being still. The tetra hovers for hours in one spot low in the tank under a plant. They seem stressed but it seems like they should be a acting normal by now if nothing is wrong. I did add some aquarium salt when I changed half the water.

Sorry this is a long boring book but I'd really like to know if anything I e done was the wrong thing to do, and if there is anything else I should be doing. I really want our fishpocalypse survivors to make it and be able to move back to the big tank once we are able to get it up and running again.

Thanks for any advice you may have.

 

[KevinMT]

Hey well in my perspective you did a few things wrong. You didn't wait long enough for your tank to really cycle. It takes at least a month, sometimes longer, to cycle a tank. Also you added to many fish at once, which increases the bio load of your tank. This can lead to an eventual increase of nitrites, nitrates, and ammonia. You would also do a water changes every week (25% if you don't already). Also if you have treated water you need to have drops to take out the impurities ( some metals and chemicals) out of the water. Also I noticed that you said the water was ice cold, if you don't have a thermometer you should in vest in one its a life saver. And if you used medication and antibiotics for the ich you need to do smaller water changes for a a month or so ( depends on how long you used the medication). As for you fish if your water is not 75-80 F you might need a new heater. This could explain how they are lethargic. Also stressed could do it from an in cycled tank ( also I understand you didn't have time sorry :/). Your fish could also have internal parasites but it is hard to say with little info. But now that you have a ten you can now have a tank where you put new arrives for about two weeks to see if they are health. Okay I think that may sum it up. I hope this helps and hope you the best!

 

[KevinMT]

Clarify about water changes for meds, 10% every day for a month

 

[Teakwood]

You need to do regular water changes(like small daily changes) to keep toxins from building up
Step 1: buy an API master test kit
This will tell you about your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels.
Step 2: try unplugging and re-plugging your heater after about 30 min. Sometimes they need to acclimate to the actual temp of the tank before being turned on so they are calculating properly.
Step 3: do enough water changes to get your ammonia levels under .25ppm (same for nitrites)
Its a bumpy road but you will make progress and once everything is running smoothly and cycled an you have a good routine down it will be soooo much easier!!! There is a page here somewhere that explains about why a tank needs to be properly cycled, and how to do it safely with fish in the tank. good luck!

 

[BettaGal]

8 days is not enough to cycle a tank, definitely with no ammonia source. Your original tank wasn't cycled.

What filter do you have in the tanks? How much salt did you add? Was it dissolved in new water?

Tetras need to be in schools of I think 6 or more. Being alone is stressing out the one.

Plecos get 20+ inches long. I think algae eaters are the same, but that needs verified by someone else on here. The pleco at least will be stunted in that small of a tank. Also, they have a huge bioload and will make your water toxic.

Do you have a liquid test kit? You'll need to check your parameters.

Bettas and gourami's don't go together. They're from the same family and will attack each other.

How often and how much do you do water changes? Do you gravel vac each time?

 

[Kwhite]

Thanks everyone. I do have a thermometer but I guess the heater broke while I was at work so the water was frigid by the time I got home. I am using the heater out of the 25 gallon until I can get a replacement.

I am aggravated now. We are new to fish so I just asked all kinds of questions at Petsmart and accepted everything they told me. They said 8 days ti run the tank before getting fish would be fine, and that all the fish we had would be compatible. They also never said anything about nitrates and all that, just to use the water conditioner with water changes. I made it clear to them we were new to this, would have been nice to be properly educated!

These 3 really did seem fine once we got the ich cleared up, until we had to move them. That's part of what's so frustrating.

I'm afraid to add any more fish right now while im uncertain of water quality, although I recognize the tetra might be stressing over being alone. Im afraid i might be dooming new fish to death. After the fishpocalypse the tetra and the brown algae eater started spending most of their time together. Do they need their own kind? Or can different types "adopt" each other?

I added the salt according to directions on the box, I think it was 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons.

It's a power filter, I think it's made by tetra. It was pretty cheap. I think it has carbon in it. The one on our bigger tank is aqueon.

That's good to know about the Betta and the Gourami for future reference. They ignored each other when they were alive though. Maybe they liked each other lol.

Thanks again everyone. My car is in the shop so hopefully I can get to petsmart soon to get stuff to test the water. In the meantime should I just change water daily?

 

[Kwhite]

Forgot to add I've been changing about 1/3 of the water about once a week since the ich treatment started. I do vac gravel each time i hadn't changed at all before that, everything had been going perfect until we got ich. The tank had been set up around 2 weeks at that point. The petsmart people had recommended monthly water changes. Things were going ok again until we had to switch tanks. What a nightmare! Thanks again. I appreciate all your input.

 

[Jbaygurl78745]

Yeah I would do small daily water changes until you can get a test kit. Also find out about the kind of pleco you have? If its a common you might wanna return him because they get huge.

Petsmarts just out to make money. Welcome

 

[Teakwood]

Forgot to add I've been changing about 1/3 of the water about once a week since the ich treatment started. I hadn't changed at all before that, everything had been going perfect until we got ich. Things were going ok again until we had to switch tanks. What a nightmare! Thanks again. I appreciate all your input.

Do about 20% water change everyday until you get a test kit. Or find a small privately owned fish store and they may have liquid test kits they can use on your water to test it. The 25% water change is to try and avoid ammonia or nitrite poisoning. Did you look up the nitrogen cycle? (That just affects how into detail I go about why you want to do 25% water changes. Don't add more fish, yes your fish will be lonely but its better then getting more fish and exposing them to ammonia and what not. Don't worry, most of us have all been exactly where you are, and learned the hard way...

 

[Kwhite]

I have not looked up anything about the nitrogen cycle, but now that you mention it, I will.

I have no idea what kind of pleco we have. He's just about 4 inches long and black. Ill have to check further.

I wish there was somewhere local to buy fish and get water tested. I'm in a small town and there isn't a single pet or fish store here. That's why I went to petsmart, they are 20 miles away in the next town but they are still the closest place. Ill be hitting the phone book and Internet to look for another option over there.

Should I add salt every day if I'm doing small water changes every day? Or should I just add that with bigger changes?

 

[KevinMT]

Good to see you on the right track! Good luck!

 

[Jbaygurl78745]

I have not looked up anything about the nitrogen cycle, but now that you mention it, I will.

I have no idea what kind of pleco we have. He's just about 4 inches long and black. Ill have to check further.

I wish there was somewhere local to buy fish and get water tested. I'm in a small town and there isn't a single pet or fish store here. That's why I went to petsmart, they are 20 miles away in the next town but they are still the closest place. Ill be hitting the phone book and Internet to look for another option over there.

Should I add salt every day if I'm doing small water changes every day? Or should I just add that with bigger changes?

I would do every other day the Pleco don't really like salt.

 

[BettaGal]

Trust me. I get the frustration. The first time I ever heard of cycling was at a "reputable" fish store nearby. I was told to use glowfish and it would be done in 3 days. Went back after that since I wanted one more fish and they tested it. Then I was told it would take 30 days, not 3, and to never change the water while it was cycling. Needless to say, the glowfish didn't make it.

A lot of people have that problem. At least now you know and can do better next time.

 

[molliwopp]

Too much salt and benefical bacteria dont mix. If your ever adding salt for any reason, make sure its aquarium salt and not table salt!

 

[Kwhite]

Update: went to Walmart and bought some test strips. Here are the results:
Nitrate: 20
Nitrite: 10
Hardness: very hard
Alk: 80
Ph 7.2
Ammonia: 3.0

I just did a 25% water change, added water conditioner and aquarium salt. The tetra has already perked up a little, at least temporarily.

Could this suddenly be a problem because they are in a smaller tank now? Should I put a rush on the effort to get the 25 gallon up an running again?

 

[KevinMT]

I would do 10% water changes for the next week. And I would also check your levels in your 25 gallon.

 

[Kwhite]

Thanks, will do the water changes. The 25 gallon is empty now, had to drain it since its table won't hold the weight,I had left some water in there until the heater fiasco the other day when I emptied done of the cold water from the 10 gal. And replaced with what was left in the 25 gal. Guess ill have to start completely over with that one.

 

[BettaGal]

The ammonia is 3? That would be a big problem. It needs to be down below .25 to be safe. 10% water changes won't cut that. You need big ones, more like 50%.

 

[Wiggles24]

Yes much larger water changes immediately!!!!!

 

[Kwhite]

Thanks . I changed about 40% yesterday and 50% a few minutes ago. I'm gonna wait a little while and test water again and see where it is. Ill post my results in case anyone has further guidance.