New setup - Tank cycle log - 1 month update

[neilanh]

My stupid LFS... I don't know what to do with them.
I am this close ( || <--- that close) to ordering from liveaquaria. I'm just concerned that it's pretty chilly here right now.


Edit
So I opted to not PWC tonight. Trying to boil that wood and the pots so big it's just barely at a boil after an hour.

I dosed 2ppm ammonia in. Should I be dosin more to sustain these guys? should I check it and maybe start dosing twice a day now?

 

[7Enigma]

Edit
So I opted to not PWC tonight. Trying to boil that wood and the pots so big it's just barely at a boil after an hour.

I dosed 2ppm ammonia in. Should I be dosin more to sustain these guys? should I check it and maybe start dosing twice a day now?

I don't see a need to do the PWC now. The bacteria shouldn't be effected by the nitrAte levels, and you'll just have to do another PWC then anyway.

For boiling, even though your wood is too large for the pot take a piece of aluminum foil and cover the top. This will help it boil MUCH sooner and should hopefully keep some of the smell down (if your wood stinks).

And again, boiling really isn't necessary, we are just trying to speed up the tannin leeching process. I would still recommend a peroxide dip at the end to make sure everything is physically killed on the wood, so you don't really need to worry about boiling through and through.

I think 2ppm ammonia would be fine. If you really wanted you could go up to 2.5 or 3.0ppm, but its your choice. If you think it will be awhile until you get the fish (with the LFS problem), I'd stick to 2ppm and then try 3ppm right before you know you're getting the fish.

 

[neilanh]

I don't see a need to do the PWC now. The bacteria shouldn't be effected by the nitrAte levels, and you'll just have to do another PWC then anyway.

Good point, but I'm wanting to PWC and rescape at the same time, so I'll just hold off until the wood is ready.

For boiling, even though your wood is too large for the pot take a piece of aluminum foil and cover the top. This will help it boil MUCH sooner and should hopefully keep some of the smell down (if your wood stinks).

Yeah, when I went to bed last night my wife said "ya know, you could aluminum foil over that". I asked her why she didn't say that 4 hours earlier.

And again, boiling really isn't necessary, we are just trying to speed up the tannin leeching process. I would still recommend a peroxide dip at the end to make sure everything is physically killed on the wood, so you don't really need to worry about boiling through and through.

I understand, like you said, I'm just trying to speed the process. I'll do the peroxide dip at the end. Can't hurt, although I'm pretty convinced everything on it is dead. Better safe than sorry though.

I think 2ppm ammonia would be fine. If you really wanted you could go up to 2.5 or 3.0ppm, but its your choice. If you think it will be awhile until you get the fish (with the LFS problem), I'd stick to 2ppm and then try 3ppm right before you know you're getting the fish.

I just don't want to lose the colony I have. If 2ppm will sustain them, I'm fine with that.

Thanks!

 

[7Enigma]

I don't want you to lose the colony either! I just also don't want whatever caused it to crash (if it was a deficiency in some nutrient/compound) to come back if you keep dosing large amounts of ammonia for a week or two before getting fish. On second thought, maybe a big PWC is a good idea to replenish any used up nutrients in your water supply?

SparKy697,

It's like most things in life. You look at it and see one thing, you look a little closer and discover a whole new thing you didn't think was there. The predator/prey cycle seems easy enough to imagine being a perfect balance, but this is life. The perfect balance is in its imperfection.

Here's a crazy early-morning brain exercise. In the predator-prey cycle if a pesticide comes into the environment and kills an equal number of predators and prey, the prey's number will increase in relationship to the predator. Wrap your mind around that one for a bit.

 

[neilanh]

Here's a crazy early-morning brain exercise. In the predator-prey cycle if a pesticide comes into the environment and kills an equal number of predators and prey, the prey's number will increase in relationship to the predator. Wrap your mind around that one for a bit.

Oh c'mon... it's WAY too early in the morning for that...

Excellent point on the nutrients. I'll do it today or tomorrow.

 

[7Enigma]

Bah, I've got my coffee and have been at work for 2 hours already.

 

[neilanh]

hehe, I've been at work for an hour now, doesn't mean I'm awake yet

 

[locorosa]

I dosed with fish...tiny little amount...tiny. I know it's controversial but it was recommended by someone from another fish board I frequent. I had to measure precisely and test a few times in the first 12 hours.
There were several reasons why and I was scared to do it but it helped with an issue I was having.

 

[7Enigma]

I dosed with fish...tiny little amount...tiny. I know it's controversial but it was recommended by someone from another fish board I frequent. I had to measure precisely and test a few times in the first 12 hours.
There were several reasons why and I was scared to do it but it helped with an issue I was having.

What is a tiny amount and what was this "issue"?

 

[locorosa]

Okay...be nice to me...I dosed in 1tsp for a few days with fish in there. I was dosing 3-4 tsp when there were no fish in the tank to get my ammo levels to 2+ ppm. I did not dose much over 2 at any time in my fishless cycle. With the fish and the dosing my ammo levels did not get much over .5ppm.
My tank cycled in 16 days and sat for a week with no fish and daily dosings. I noticed my ammo was not converting very well ( .5-1.0 24 hrs after dosing) after a couple of days. Then AFTER the stall, my ph levels crashed. It was weird they did that after the fact and not before.
I did a pwc and added some baking soda...two days in a row. Nuttin! Still stalling.
I asked here and on the other board what to do and was told (in a private message) from the other board to add some feeder goldfish and dose 1/3 of the ammonia that I was dosing. They basically said that for whatever reason my bacteria was dying off and instead of re-cycling I could jumpstart what was there. Keep in mind, the person that told me this is kind of a guru at the other board but didn't want to get any flack and pm'd me the advice. Knowing it was controversial I kept it private as well. I cannot remember everything they told my, the why's and what-for's but that was the gist of it.
I bought some big feeder goldfish, 12 to be exact, salt dipped them (four went toe up) and put 8 in the tank a week ago. I have since found out that my water has low CO2 levels right out of the tap so coupled with the salt, CO2 narcosis is probably what killed the 4 other feeders. They may have also been unhealthy to begin with.
Within 24 hours, the tank was back on track. Ph went up and it was converting the .5ppm in less than 12 hours. So, I was then told to dose twice a day at the same levels. Same results. I did this for the last week.
Monday night, I added half my goldfish, with the feeders in the tank and did not dose. 12 hours alter the levels were perfect. I then added the second half of my goldfish yesterday afternoon and tested 12 hours later, once again...perfect. I did not dose after I added the fancies to the tank.
I just got back from the fish store. I took back all 8 feeders with me and returned them, much fatter after their week in my tank. I did not pull them out of the tank until this afternoon. I just tested the water again and...still on track.
I believe my water may have something to do with it. Perhaps my tank was not fully cycled. Maybe the fish food I fed them?I really don't know. I felt pretty good about all the fish surviving and thriving in the tank. I felt horrible about the 4 dying before they even got put in the tank. I am glad it worked but will probably not recommend this idea to anyone else as I don't fully understand it or how it helped me.

 

[neilanh]

I just think I'm going to leave that alone.

Here's my update.
Readings today are good
pH 7.5
Ammo 0
NO2 0
NO3 120ish

So a 2d day 2ppm conversion is 24 hours. Makes me feel better (I worry about flukes a lot).

Driftwood is on boil, this time with a foil lid
And I'm gonna go PWC. Going to go ahead and take out the false wood decorations in prep for the new wood. Kinda hoping theres a lot of snails on them when I pull them, if ya know what I mean.

I'll get pics of the empty tank. I haven't decided yet how to scape with the large wood centerpiece and the 2 tunnel pieces I have, so hoping to play with it. Actually, the 2 small pieces are going in tonight, since they've been sitting for 7 days and the water isn't stained at all.

 

[locorosa]

In retrospect I think I did tell you to try what I had done a couple of days ago in a pm when you were at desperation's door lol...so I erred there.

On a different note...lighter less controversial one, we must see new pictures!!!!

 

[neilanh]

You did, true

New pics soon


Edit
80% PWC (i was scared to go more )
3ml Ammonia
5ml Flourish Comp.

That should hold me over til tomorrow.

Pulled out the fake decor wood I had, and about 15 snails. lol
Tank looks so empty now.
The main piece is still boiling, but I did put in one of the 2 small pieces. The other one has some sharp edges on it that I don't know if I'm going to make workable or not yet. So I just put the one in for fun. It's hard to tell in the pics, but it's hollow and makes a little cave.

Gotta hide those airline tubes better. Man I hate those things, I can never get them under the gravel and stay there. Hopefully the big piece of wood will hide all that.

 

[locorosa]

I can't wait to see what that sweet piece of wood looks like in there.

A Dremel would cut through that thin piece and sand it down. From what I understand, if they can get a fin caught on it they will!
The cave is pretty neat as well. I am thinking about getting one for my cory's.

Lookin good!

 

[neilanh]

The problem is that on that front lip where it's sharp, it's very thin and doesn't thicken up, so I don't know that even if I got the sharp edges off that I'd be able to sand it enough to smooth it down.

I'm considering just sticking it in there with the sharp edges down in the gravel so it's vertical. We'll see what things look like when I get the main piece in.

I'm hopefully gonna go look for some silk plants tomorrow to replace the plastic ones. I asked before, but if I buy non-aquarium silk plants, other than rinsing them do I need to do anything else to them first?

 

[Marconis]

Niceeeee

 

[neilanh]

Heading off to bed. 3. more hours of boil time on the main piece tonight, brings the total to 6.5 hours or so. lol it's still leaching tannins under boil like nobody's business.

I'm still scared of PWCs after the first go round, so you know I had to check the water readings one more time, you know me. 3 hours since 80% PWC, 2 hours since 2ppm dose. Looks like all is well. NO3 isn't down as much as I had hoped from the PWC, but I was planning on at least 1 more before fish anyway. I know what you're going to say, "Should've done 95%"
Like I said, I was scared of PWCs after the first incident. Anyway,

pH 7.5
Ammonia 1.5
NO2 0.5
NO3 ~60

I also looked back at the pics. I didn't feel the pic of the small cave wood did it justice. How's these?

 

[locorosa]

Much better pictures! It really is a neat piece.

I am surprised at the N3's. I figured they'd be lower...hmmmm.

As far as non-aquarium silks, if I remember correctly some are sprayed to repel dust and to help stiffen for display so I would think you'd have to boil them as well. I dunno about dyes or anything else though.

 

[7Enigma]

I'm jealous of those pieces!

Oh, and you should've done a 95%. j/k, it doesn't matter since you will most likely have to do another large change prior to addition of the fish. If you feel the small pieces are ready (ie little leeching) I'd add them in now. That way, even if they tint the water a little bit, after a 95% PWC, you won't be able to tell.

As for the sharp piece, I wouldn't worry. If you can get the sharp part to face towards the substrate that's great, otherwise within a week or 2 bacteria will coat the surface and make it slimy. It will still be sharp, but will be less likely to catch on a fish (only your angel's worry me with that point).

I decided after all this talk to boil my piece of wood as well. 3 hours of boiling, constantly turning it since I couldn't get it all in the pot, and using a pocket knife to painstakingly get the bark off. It was a complete PITA!!!! But after the 2nd water change (so 3rd total) after 45minutes I could still easily see everything in the pot (looked like VERY weak tea), so I decided that was as good as I'm going to get. I took the piece out, rinsed it off in tap water, took out my trusty bucket I've been soaking it in, and filled the bucket. Then I held the piece above the surface of the water in the bucket and poured an entire bottle of peroxide all over the piece of wood. I held it there for a minute, then dropped it in the bucket, mixed the water up, and let it sit overnight. I didn't check it this morning, but will when I get home. I had plans to get it in the tank today and start my "tree-making", but that might have to wait another day or until this weekend.

 

[neilanh]

Thanks locorosa for the silk plant tip, I'll keep it in mind.

As for the wood, yeah I really like them too. I can't wait to get the main piece in. That's an interesting point, 7, about the bacteria sliming over the sharp edges, but I honestly think it would still be dangerous. I'm going to get the dremel and the sander out and see what I can do. I bought the piece because of it's cave-like structure, and really want to use it as such. Unfortunately it's the entrance to the cave that is so sharp. So I'll see what I can do with it. Like I said, worst case, it may look good in a vertical position in the tank.

These 2 smaller pieces I boiled for several hours until the water wasn't staining under boil at all, I then let it soak for a week and still I didn't see any stain to the water, so the 2 small pieces were definately ready to go. I use a little bit of aquarium salt in all my boils, as well as I dechlor the water too.

As for my main piece, I start it boiling after the baby goes to bed (5 gallons of boiling water and him liking to play in the kitchen just isn't a risk I'm willing to take), then boil it for 3-4 hours until I go to bed, changing the water whenever I think it's gotten dark enough. I then let it soak overnight until the next boiling session. I've had 2 boiling sessions with it now, and it's definatly not leeching like it was originally, but still quite a bit. We'll see how it goes. If I would've just done the soak method with this piece I could easily see it taking several months.

Oh, and I'm only boiling about 75-80% of it. Once I get that part done, I'll have to turn the piece upside down to get the top brancy pieces of it, since the pot isn't deep enough to get it all at once.

By the way, the aluminum foil trick worked wonders. LOL I can't believe I didn't think of it.

Oh, and I read your story. The stories I could tell of my wife locking us all out of the house. We have the code pads on our cars, so we keep spare keys in there now and just use the code pad if we need it. The smell.... yeah, wives hate it. Mine's been very tolerant however. She's made a few comments, but hasn't seemed to get upset.