SparKy697
Aquarium Advice Addict
It's the rule I live my life by.
New setup - Tank cycle log - 1 month update
- Thread starter neilanh
- Start date
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
It's the rule I live my life by.
OP
OP
neilanh
Sliced Bread
I'll go hold the store up tomorrow.
"Put the gravel in the bag, and nobody gets hurt"
haha
"Put the gravel in the bag, and nobody gets hurt"
haha
If you are looking to have discus, I suggest you get a book and read up on them before you put anything in the tank. There are few fish that are compatable with discus. Discus swim slow, therefore you should not have fast streamlined swimmers as tankmates. They will gobble up most of the food before the discus realize there is food in the tank. They will also most likely be stressed by the fast movement of thier tankmates.
Discus are known as the Divas of the FW aquarium world and should be treated as such if you want them to thrive. They must have acidic water (PH below 7). Before taking them home, make sure you know the ph of the tank they came from and try to match it(unless the ph is above 7, then I recomend going to another dealer). Make sure the ph remains stable. If you have any doubts, test your replacement water when doing water changes. They prefer higher temperatures than most tropical fish. I keep my Discus tank at 82 degrees. Discus also need lots of room. They can grow to 6 to 8 inches, sometimes larger...so figure about 10 gallons per discus. In a 46g, I would have no more than 5. And to be on the safe side, I'd go with 3 or 4. I keep one pair in a 29gallon setup with all live plants.
Because they require excellent water quality, you MUST perform frequent water changes(including vaccuming). I change mine once a week and they are doing fantastic. Most discus keepers will recomend two to three per week.
As far as tankmates....I have a gold nugget pleco, and several honey gouramis. I was advised to NOT keep the honey gouramis with my discus. I do anyway and they keep dying(I did not have this problem until I added the pleco...any advice would be appreciated), but they do not bother my discus. I chose them because they stay small(about 1 and a half inch) and they are also slow swimmers.
As far as a pleco, a trinidad pleco or common pleco will grow to be huge, approximately 12-15 inches. I would shop around for a more exotic species that does not get very large. Many of the fancy plecos will get no larger than six inches, which will be suitable for your tank. The fancy plecos will be more expensive, but they will not overrun your tank and will be nicer to look at, as they come in many sizes, colors and patterns. Also, they need some type of food supplement, as the algae will not give them proper nutrition. Throw an algae wafer in the tank at night and stick a piece of driftwood in the tank. Wood aids in their digestion.
If you decide to skip the discus because of the extensive care they require, buy a book that contains fish profiles and compatability and read it. Always know what size the fish will be when they are full grown. Your best resource for this is in reading materials. Local fish stores sometimes employ people who know nothing about fish and you can get misinformation from this source. Always do your own research and good luck
Discus are known as the Divas of the FW aquarium world and should be treated as such if you want them to thrive. They must have acidic water (PH below 7). Before taking them home, make sure you know the ph of the tank they came from and try to match it(unless the ph is above 7, then I recomend going to another dealer). Make sure the ph remains stable. If you have any doubts, test your replacement water when doing water changes. They prefer higher temperatures than most tropical fish. I keep my Discus tank at 82 degrees. Discus also need lots of room. They can grow to 6 to 8 inches, sometimes larger...so figure about 10 gallons per discus. In a 46g, I would have no more than 5. And to be on the safe side, I'd go with 3 or 4. I keep one pair in a 29gallon setup with all live plants.
Because they require excellent water quality, you MUST perform frequent water changes(including vaccuming). I change mine once a week and they are doing fantastic. Most discus keepers will recomend two to three per week.
As far as tankmates....I have a gold nugget pleco, and several honey gouramis. I was advised to NOT keep the honey gouramis with my discus. I do anyway and they keep dying(I did not have this problem until I added the pleco...any advice would be appreciated), but they do not bother my discus. I chose them because they stay small(about 1 and a half inch) and they are also slow swimmers.
As far as a pleco, a trinidad pleco or common pleco will grow to be huge, approximately 12-15 inches. I would shop around for a more exotic species that does not get very large. Many of the fancy plecos will get no larger than six inches, which will be suitable for your tank. The fancy plecos will be more expensive, but they will not overrun your tank and will be nicer to look at, as they come in many sizes, colors and patterns. Also, they need some type of food supplement, as the algae will not give them proper nutrition. Throw an algae wafer in the tank at night and stick a piece of driftwood in the tank. Wood aids in their digestion.
If you decide to skip the discus because of the extensive care they require, buy a book that contains fish profiles and compatability and read it. Always know what size the fish will be when they are full grown. Your best resource for this is in reading materials. Local fish stores sometimes employ people who know nothing about fish and you can get misinformation from this source. Always do your own research and good luck
OP
OP
neilanh
Sliced Bread
Thanks Starfyre. I've definately decided against the discus, at least for a while. Possibly in the future in another tank where I can keep just them, or maybe in this tank well into the future. Since I'm waiting for my tank to cycle, I'm doing lots of looking and reading online for fish to choose and compatability between them. It's information like you provided that I really like, so thank you very much.
watching an empty tank cycle can be frustrating, but like JDog said it is a lesson in patience. One thing I read here at AA made a lot of sense to me, "Only bad things happen overnight"
I love your driftwood, it looks like mangrove. in lieu of the discus, you might consider angels.
I love your driftwood, it looks like mangrove. in lieu of the discus, you might consider angels.
OP
OP
neilanh
Sliced Bread
I'm not an impatient person, so it's not that big of a deal to me, but the way I see it, is if I can get someone elses filter/substrate/etc and knock my cycle time down to 2 weeks (give or take), why wait? I could just wait, but don't see the point.
Anyway, I dunno why, not a big fan of angels, but we'll see. If they mesh well with my other choices, they might make the final list.
Anyway, I dunno why, not a big fan of angels, but we'll see. If they mesh well with my other choices, they might make the final list.
Good choice neilanh. Although they are beautiful, Discus are very demanding, and can be alot of work and heartache for a first tank. My first tank was a 10g goldfish tank. I killed about 17 of them before I figured out what I was doing. You have a great size tank for a first endeavor. Larger tanks have less fluctuation in water parameters and are easier to maintain.
As far as your fish choices........
It looks like you want quite a variety of species (which I also prefer). If that is the route you want to take, stay away from cichlids, as they are very territorial and aggressive and will harass your other fish to death. Not saying cichlids aren't great fish to keep. I have a 55g community with many cichlids, but they are some of the tamer ones -->Severums and rams are some cichlids that are less aggressive and may be kept in a community tank. As always, make sure you do some research first as far as compatability. I was told the kribensis was a calmer cichlid that could be kept in a community tank. It turns out he took over a third of my 55g tank, and attacks any fish that steps into his territory.
Looking at your wish list.....
I would give a green light for just about anything in the tetra group.
Livebearers also make excellent community fish. They include the swordtails, guppies, and also platys;which come in a "mickey mouse" variety. They have a marking that looks like a sideways mickey mouse head, which are a favorite of mine.
Stay away from the clown loach...It gets huge and will overrun your tank. There are many other small loaches available. The khuli loach is a great choice. It is very peaceful and very interesting to watch. Always read about the species you are interested in. Some loaches can be aggressive, such as the skunk loach, and the chain loach.
Corydoras are also something worth looking into. They are peaceful catfish that do a great job of cleaning up the leftovers on the gravel and will not bother your other inhabitants.
I hope this gives you a little more of a heads up on your choices.
As far as your fish choices........
It looks like you want quite a variety of species (which I also prefer). If that is the route you want to take, stay away from cichlids, as they are very territorial and aggressive and will harass your other fish to death. Not saying cichlids aren't great fish to keep. I have a 55g community with many cichlids, but they are some of the tamer ones -->Severums and rams are some cichlids that are less aggressive and may be kept in a community tank. As always, make sure you do some research first as far as compatability. I was told the kribensis was a calmer cichlid that could be kept in a community tank. It turns out he took over a third of my 55g tank, and attacks any fish that steps into his territory.
Looking at your wish list.....
I would give a green light for just about anything in the tetra group.
Livebearers also make excellent community fish. They include the swordtails, guppies, and also platys;which come in a "mickey mouse" variety. They have a marking that looks like a sideways mickey mouse head, which are a favorite of mine.
Stay away from the clown loach...It gets huge and will overrun your tank. There are many other small loaches available. The khuli loach is a great choice. It is very peaceful and very interesting to watch. Always read about the species you are interested in. Some loaches can be aggressive, such as the skunk loach, and the chain loach.
Corydoras are also something worth looking into. They are peaceful catfish that do a great job of cleaning up the leftovers on the gravel and will not bother your other inhabitants.
I hope this gives you a little more of a heads up on your choices.
OP
OP
neilanh
Sliced Bread
Thanks again Starfyre. I was under the impression, as far as Cichlids go, that basically I go all cichlids, or none. Looking at your info it appears that there are some I can consider (the tamer ones) so I'll add those to my list to research. I like them, I just didn't want a tank full of just them.
Yeah, the clown loach is out, but I am considering the kuhli and the yoyo loaches. I've been looking at the livebearers you mentioned and I like some of them, so I'll keep those on the list for now too. I definately want some corys you mentioned as well.
Also, today I was at the LFS, and I saw some ghost catfish. They looked like skeleton fish, I need to get some info on them, as I might like 1 or 2 of those too. (i like oddball stuff a lot as well).
Thanks again for all your infor Starfyre.
Now, for my tank update.
It's been 24 hours since I dosed with the initial dose of ammonia. No change yet in the water (as I expected). However, while at the LFS I was able to get them to give up a couple pounds of their gravel from their tanks. I picked up some new pantyhose (as recommended in another thread I read) and rinsed those in clean water only, then made 2 small "bags" of the gravel that I got from the store. I put those in the tank and "squished" the gravel around trying to disperse anything off of it I could. I then put one of the bags in my filter housing before the actual filter, and the other bag is sitting atop one of the wood decorations in the tank.
Was that a good way to do it?
I was just told by my wife that she found in passing, another LFS not too far away. She's feeding the kids dinner right now, then we're going to go up there and see what they have. While I'm there, I'm going to attempt to snag some more seed for my tank.
Oh, I also picked up a jug of Black Diamond active carbon to go in the second filter housing for the HOB filter. Was that a good choice?
Yeah, the clown loach is out, but I am considering the kuhli and the yoyo loaches. I've been looking at the livebearers you mentioned and I like some of them, so I'll keep those on the list for now too. I definately want some corys you mentioned as well.
Also, today I was at the LFS, and I saw some ghost catfish. They looked like skeleton fish, I need to get some info on them, as I might like 1 or 2 of those too. (i like oddball stuff a lot as well).
Thanks again for all your infor Starfyre.
Now, for my tank update.
It's been 24 hours since I dosed with the initial dose of ammonia. No change yet in the water (as I expected). However, while at the LFS I was able to get them to give up a couple pounds of their gravel from their tanks. I picked up some new pantyhose (as recommended in another thread I read) and rinsed those in clean water only, then made 2 small "bags" of the gravel that I got from the store. I put those in the tank and "squished" the gravel around trying to disperse anything off of it I could. I then put one of the bags in my filter housing before the actual filter, and the other bag is sitting atop one of the wood decorations in the tank.
Was that a good way to do it?
I was just told by my wife that she found in passing, another LFS not too far away. She's feeding the kids dinner right now, then we're going to go up there and see what they have. While I'm there, I'm going to attempt to snag some more seed for my tank.
Oh, I also picked up a jug of Black Diamond active carbon to go in the second filter housing for the HOB filter. Was that a good choice?
zenkatydid
Aquarium Advice FINatic
i have 3 yoyo loaches in my 50gal and absolutely love them - they are stars of entertainment. kuhlis are also pretty cool and excellent cleanup crew, but are quite shy.
activated carbon is only really useful for removing things (like tannins leeched from natural woods or medicine used in the tank), and aren't really necessary for everyday use. it only lasts a couple weeks anyway, iirc. in a good filter, you want some biological filtration (like bioballs or ceramic noodles) and a couple of different types of mechanical filtration (like fine filter floss and something coarser - though the noodles can also be used as coarse mechanical).
the glass catfish you saw are a really interesting addition, but they are schoolers, and get to about 3". you'd want to have at least 3 or 4 for them to be happy.
activated carbon is only really useful for removing things (like tannins leeched from natural woods or medicine used in the tank), and aren't really necessary for everyday use. it only lasts a couple weeks anyway, iirc. in a good filter, you want some biological filtration (like bioballs or ceramic noodles) and a couple of different types of mechanical filtration (like fine filter floss and something coarser - though the noodles can also be used as coarse mechanical).
the glass catfish you saw are a really interesting addition, but they are schoolers, and get to about 3". you'd want to have at least 3 or 4 for them to be happy.
OP
OP
neilanh
Sliced Bread
So I just got back from the other pet store my wife found. It turned out to be a Petco.
Anyways, they let me have a filter! Looks like it's been around the block a bit, so hopefully that means it's ripe full of the stuff I want on it. I squished it around the tank a bit, and got a little bit of a cloud in the water. I removed the bag of gravel that was in the filter, and replaced it with this dirty filter. Hopefully I'm on the right track.
Now, as I continue to monitor the cycle and add ammonia as needed, how long to I leave the seed stuff in before removing it?
Zenka, thanks for the info. I definately want more active fish, so if the Kuhlis are the shyer of the 2, I'll target the yoyos.
Anyways, they let me have a filter! Looks like it's been around the block a bit, so hopefully that means it's ripe full of the stuff I want on it. I squished it around the tank a bit, and got a little bit of a cloud in the water. I removed the bag of gravel that was in the filter, and replaced it with this dirty filter. Hopefully I'm on the right track.
Now, as I continue to monitor the cycle and add ammonia as needed, how long to I leave the seed stuff in before removing it?
Zenka, thanks for the info. I definately want more active fish, so if the Kuhlis are the shyer of the 2, I'll target the yoyos.
OP
OP
neilanh
Sliced Bread
Day 2 (Day 1 since seeding)
24 hours since the seeding, no progress yet, water levels are the same as yesterday. When should I start to see trace amounts of Nitrite? I'm figuring a few days, but I want to at least see some results to assure me i'm on track.
You guys have given me lots of good ideas for fish, so I'm sure in the near future I'll have comprised a new list for you guys to pick apart (I mean that in a good way).
Quick question about the AP test kit. Is a simple rinse of the tubes sufficient for cleaning them? Do you recommend something else? I just ran them through my son's old bottle sanitizer (steamer) thingy for good measure, but I don't know if it's necessary.
24 hours since the seeding, no progress yet, water levels are the same as yesterday. When should I start to see trace amounts of Nitrite? I'm figuring a few days, but I want to at least see some results to assure me i'm on track.
You guys have given me lots of good ideas for fish, so I'm sure in the near future I'll have comprised a new list for you guys to pick apart (I mean that in a good way).
Quick question about the AP test kit. Is a simple rinse of the tubes sufficient for cleaning them? Do you recommend something else? I just ran them through my son's old bottle sanitizer (steamer) thingy for good measure, but I don't know if it's necessary.
SparKy697
Aquarium Advice Addict
It took me almost a week until I started to see changes in the nitrite. It is a long week.....
What I do with my test vials is to rinse them and the lids in hot water 3 or 4 times, shake them free of excess water and stand them on a wooden dowel rack that I made to dry. I used a paper towel on the desk before I had the drying rack. Then when I go to use them I fill the vial up half way and place the lid on and shake a few times to rinse. Then dump the vial out and place the 5 mils in the vial for testing.
I think the steamer is a bit more effort than is really needed, but thumbs up for the effort 8)
What I do with my test vials is to rinse them and the lids in hot water 3 or 4 times, shake them free of excess water and stand them on a wooden dowel rack that I made to dry. I used a paper towel on the desk before I had the drying rack. Then when I go to use them I fill the vial up half way and place the lid on and shake a few times to rinse. Then dump the vial out and place the 5 mils in the vial for testing.
I think the steamer is a bit more effort than is really needed, but thumbs up for the effort 8)
OP
OP
neilanh
Sliced Bread
Choosing Fish - bioload?
So I'm continuing to look at fish and figure out what I want. I started thinking on what kind of fish load (I think that's called bioload) my tank can handle. I looked on here and found a calculator, but it doesn't work, so that didn't help me. So hopefully you guys/gals will let me know if I'm going to high.
Here's my latest wish list and number of each I think I want, in 2 parts. Part 1 will be the initial load over the first month or two, then part 2 a little further into the future to be added.
Part 1
Dalmatian Molly 3
Asst Swordtails 4
Boesemani Rainbow 2
Tiger Pleco 1
Rummynose Tetra 3
Splashing Tetra 3
Dusky Panther Goby 1
Asst mystery snails 2
Nanus Cory Cat 3
Yoyo loach 2
And Part 2
Patrizi Killifish 2
Goo Obo Gudgeon 1
Cherry Fire Shrimp 3
Now, for my questions.
1) Compatability of what I chose
2) liveaquaria said that the goby and the mollies require salt. If that's true, how do I dose it/test it and what affects on the other fish
3) BioLoad - The total of all of these works out to be 23 fish. Is that too much? (probably, but start big and compromise later, right?)
4) Planting - You've seen pics of my tank, all artificial plants. liveaquaria says many of these fish prefer densely planted. Is what I have sufficient?
5) stocking - once my tank is fully cycled, how often can I add fish and be okay? With a fully cycled tank, do I need to wait 1-2 weeks between additions?
6) Ordering fish online - Good or Bad? A lot of these aren't stocked at any of my LFSs, so it may come to me needing to order online to get them if they make the final cut. Is ordering online really safe? Or would it be better to have my LFS order them for me so I can see them before I pay.
I'm not really interested in breeding anything, at least not yet, but should I get to that point I have an old eclipse 12 in storage that would come out. It may end up coming out eventually anyway, as I can already see how addicting this stuff is, and I'd really like one of those blue lobsters.
I was at yet another LFS today (just checking them all out) and they had a gorgeous snakeskin discus. Seeing one in person really makes me want to work another tank for them. But they wanted $100 for it, which is a bit pricey if you ask me.
So, you guys have all been great, which just means I'll keep asking questions. I'd appreciate your comments on this latest "wish list" of mine.
Thanks!
Neilan
So I'm continuing to look at fish and figure out what I want. I started thinking on what kind of fish load (I think that's called bioload) my tank can handle. I looked on here and found a calculator, but it doesn't work, so that didn't help me. So hopefully you guys/gals will let me know if I'm going to high.
Here's my latest wish list and number of each I think I want, in 2 parts. Part 1 will be the initial load over the first month or two, then part 2 a little further into the future to be added.
Part 1
Dalmatian Molly 3
Asst Swordtails 4
Boesemani Rainbow 2
Tiger Pleco 1
Rummynose Tetra 3
Splashing Tetra 3
Dusky Panther Goby 1
Asst mystery snails 2
Nanus Cory Cat 3
Yoyo loach 2
And Part 2
Patrizi Killifish 2
Goo Obo Gudgeon 1
Cherry Fire Shrimp 3
Now, for my questions.
1) Compatability of what I chose
2) liveaquaria said that the goby and the mollies require salt. If that's true, how do I dose it/test it and what affects on the other fish
3) BioLoad - The total of all of these works out to be 23 fish. Is that too much? (probably, but start big and compromise later, right?)
4) Planting - You've seen pics of my tank, all artificial plants. liveaquaria says many of these fish prefer densely planted. Is what I have sufficient?
5) stocking - once my tank is fully cycled, how often can I add fish and be okay? With a fully cycled tank, do I need to wait 1-2 weeks between additions?
6) Ordering fish online - Good or Bad? A lot of these aren't stocked at any of my LFSs, so it may come to me needing to order online to get them if they make the final cut. Is ordering online really safe? Or would it be better to have my LFS order them for me so I can see them before I pay.
I'm not really interested in breeding anything, at least not yet, but should I get to that point I have an old eclipse 12 in storage that would come out. It may end up coming out eventually anyway, as I can already see how addicting this stuff is, and I'd really like one of those blue lobsters.
I was at yet another LFS today (just checking them all out) and they had a gorgeous snakeskin discus. Seeing one in person really makes me want to work another tank for them. But they wanted $100 for it, which is a bit pricey if you ask me.
So, you guys have all been great, which just means I'll keep asking questions. I'd appreciate your comments on this latest "wish list" of mine.
Thanks!
Neilan
SparKy697
Aquarium Advice Addict
I'm not a great help on compatibility as far as your list goes.
One thing that comes to mind is scavengers. I see a pleco and a couple of snails. There is almost no such thing as a couple of snails. Two means 20 and so on. Consider a yoyo loach or another loach that will stay small to help with the snail population. I'm of the opinion that more is better for the bottom feeders. I'd rather have to drop in pellets to make sure they are being fed than to have too few of them and have a rapid build up of "stuff". I think we all over feed at one point or another, especially in the beginning, so why not use that to the advantage of some more scavengers.
Corey Cats are a riot in groups of three or more and will eat almost everything they can find.
One thing that comes to mind is scavengers. I see a pleco and a couple of snails. There is almost no such thing as a couple of snails. Two means 20 and so on. Consider a yoyo loach or another loach that will stay small to help with the snail population. I'm of the opinion that more is better for the bottom feeders. I'd rather have to drop in pellets to make sure they are being fed than to have too few of them and have a rapid build up of "stuff". I think we all over feed at one point or another, especially in the beginning, so why not use that to the advantage of some more scavengers.
Corey Cats are a riot in groups of three or more and will eat almost everything they can find.
OP
OP
neilanh
Sliced Bread
I asked that question early on about how many algae feeders I needed, and never really got a reply on it. Personally, I like bottom dwellers, and have been looking at corys and loaches too. I'll do some more looking. My wife thinks I'm nuts about liking those, they're just not "pretty" enough for her I think, but I'm glad you agree that I need more, cuz I just wasn't sure.
As far as the snails go, my wife loves them. We kept 2 in my daughers 12gallon when that was running, so I don't understand I guess exactly what you meant by "Two means 20". Are you referring to them breeding? cuz the 2 we had before never did. We had 1 each gold and black mystery snails in that 12 gal I referred to.
So, I'll go back and look at more scavengers. How am I looking load wise though, I feel like 25ish fish is a lot, but for a 46gal tank that's nearly 2 gallons/fish. Probably not the right way to think about it though, huh?
With the cory cats, you said groups of them were great. Do those groups need to contain all the same type, or can I get several different types, for example, to make a group?
I edited my list 2 posts up for the cory's and loaches I like.
Day 4 water update
12/30/06 8pm
pH 7.6
Ammonia 2.0
Nitrite 0.0
Nitrate 5.0
Temp 86°
Okay, maybe I missed something in reading the fishless cycle article, so help me out. My ammonia level has fallen 2-3ppm in the last 24 hours, but I see no trace yet of NitrIte. I checked it twice to be sure. Is this normal? Will the ammonia eventually filter itself out naturally? Or does this mean the nitrite is building, just not detectable yet.
I assume my next step is to dose more ammonia to get it back in the 4-5 range (don't want to starve my little guys, do I?).
Hoping for some feedback here.
Thanks!
As far as the snails go, my wife loves them. We kept 2 in my daughers 12gallon when that was running, so I don't understand I guess exactly what you meant by "Two means 20". Are you referring to them breeding? cuz the 2 we had before never did. We had 1 each gold and black mystery snails in that 12 gal I referred to.
So, I'll go back and look at more scavengers. How am I looking load wise though, I feel like 25ish fish is a lot, but for a 46gal tank that's nearly 2 gallons/fish. Probably not the right way to think about it though, huh?
With the cory cats, you said groups of them were great. Do those groups need to contain all the same type, or can I get several different types, for example, to make a group?
I edited my list 2 posts up for the cory's and loaches I like.
Day 4 water update
12/30/06 8pm
pH 7.6
Ammonia 2.0
Nitrite 0.0
Nitrate 5.0
Temp 86°
Okay, maybe I missed something in reading the fishless cycle article, so help me out. My ammonia level has fallen 2-3ppm in the last 24 hours, but I see no trace yet of NitrIte. I checked it twice to be sure. Is this normal? Will the ammonia eventually filter itself out naturally? Or does this mean the nitrite is building, just not detectable yet.
I assume my next step is to dose more ammonia to get it back in the 4-5 range (don't want to starve my little guys, do I?).
Hoping for some feedback here.
Thanks!
OP
OP
neilanh
Sliced Bread
Day 5
So, late last night before bed at around 12:30am, I dosed another 2ml of ammonia solution hoping to get my ammonia levels back up. 2ml should have given me about a 1-1.5ppm ammonia increase.
I just tested the water for today, my readings were:
pH 7.4
Ammonia 1.5-2ppm
Nitrite 0.0
Nitrate 8.0
temp 87°
So, after dosing another 2ml of ammonia 18 hours ago, my ammonia level doesn't appear to have changed much, if at all. I'm also thinking I'm starting to see the hue of the nitrIte color test change slightly, although that could just be wishful thinking
But, there is a definate increase in nitrAte, based on this test. I didn't double check it, as we're preparing to go out for new years, but I'll check it again later. 8 is an estimate, it's definately >5 and <10, and definately higher (darker shade) than any of the previous tests I've done up until now.
Does this seem normal? To begin to see an increase in nitrAte before seeing anything in the nitrIte? That's assuming this test was accurate.
I've been stirring the seed material daily in the tank. I don't see anything coming off of the substrate, but I get a definate cloud from the seed filter. I'm trying to keep my hands out of the tank as much as possible, as I don't know if I can affect my readings, but I always do my tests before I stir things up.
I wish you all a Happy New Year, and hope that you all enjoy tonight and remain safe!
So, late last night before bed at around 12:30am, I dosed another 2ml of ammonia solution hoping to get my ammonia levels back up. 2ml should have given me about a 1-1.5ppm ammonia increase.
I just tested the water for today, my readings were:
pH 7.4
Ammonia 1.5-2ppm
Nitrite 0.0
Nitrate 8.0
temp 87°
So, after dosing another 2ml of ammonia 18 hours ago, my ammonia level doesn't appear to have changed much, if at all. I'm also thinking I'm starting to see the hue of the nitrIte color test change slightly, although that could just be wishful thinking
But, there is a definate increase in nitrAte, based on this test. I didn't double check it, as we're preparing to go out for new years, but I'll check it again later. 8 is an estimate, it's definately >5 and <10, and definately higher (darker shade) than any of the previous tests I've done up until now.
Does this seem normal? To begin to see an increase in nitrAte before seeing anything in the nitrIte? That's assuming this test was accurate.
I've been stirring the seed material daily in the tank. I don't see anything coming off of the substrate, but I get a definate cloud from the seed filter. I'm trying to keep my hands out of the tank as much as possible, as I don't know if I can affect my readings, but I always do my tests before I stir things up.
I wish you all a Happy New Year, and hope that you all enjoy tonight and remain safe!
SparKy697
Aquarium Advice Addict
I really cant help with the fish load issue. I think the best answer is that there are no hard and fast rules. None of the fish in your list get really big except for maybe the Pleco. In my opinion, that comes into play. Your list does not look too overcrowded in my opinion, but like I said I'm not the expert on that. I have heard some say that scavengers don't count on the bioload because they remove nearly as much as they create.
I now have the first coreys I have ever had. My wife would look at me like I was goofy if she heard me say that the three of them look kind of cute. lol I like the way they go everywhere together.
As for your cycle:
I would say that if you are starting to lose ammonia you should start to see nitrite spike here soon. Although I would have expected to see the nitrite show up before the ammonia drop out. The levels of nitrate are still low, by the time you are done don't be surprised to see 40+. Just keep testing and feeding ammonia to keep the levels up, you are on your way.
Happy new year to you as well!
I now have the first coreys I have ever had. My wife would look at me like I was goofy if she heard me say that the three of them look kind of cute. lol I like the way they go everywhere together.
As for your cycle:
I would say that if you are starting to lose ammonia you should start to see nitrite spike here soon. Although I would have expected to see the nitrite show up before the ammonia drop out. The levels of nitrate are still low, by the time you are done don't be surprised to see 40+. Just keep testing and feeding ammonia to keep the levels up, you are on your way.
Happy new year to you as well!
Hey Neilanh!
I'm not sure if continueing to add ammonia is a good idea. Granted, I have never done a fishless cycle with FW. This is what happened when I cycled my tanks. First the ammonia would spike, then the nitrites would spike, then the nitrates. Once my ammonia and nitrites were at 0, and my nitrates were at 40 or below, I started to stock the tank.
I start with the hardiest fish first and add 2-3 small (1 inch) or 1-2 medium size (more than 1 inch) at a time. But of course, this all depends on what type of fish you're putting in there. If you have any super sensitive fish, only put in one at a time. I wait at least a week and a half before putting more fish in. Always monitor water conditions closely when stocking the tank. If you start to get ANY ammonia or nitrites, STOP STOCKING and wait till levels go back to normal. If your nitrates start to get high, you're probably feeding too much. Until the tank is fully stocked, I only feed every other day.
With stocking your tank.....
The basic rule of thumb for FW community tanks is to never exceed 1 inch of fish per gallon. When picking fish to stock the tank, always find out what their full grown adult size will be. Most fish stores have babies in thier tanks. The only fish that will stay approximately the same size are guppies, and some tetras. The best way to find out their adult size is to get a book that breaks down individual species. As I mentioned before, alot of people employed at the LFS are not informed or experienced aquarists, and they will not give you correct information. I can't tell you how many times I have asked questions and got ridiculously wrong answers from pet store employees. Even the little charts they have on the tank are wrong.
As far as your wish list, that is too many fish for your size tank. I calculted your adult sizes and it's almost 60 inches of fish. Most gobies are either brakish or saltwater. I'm not familiar with the species you mentioned, but I'm willing to bet it's a brakish fish, which is a completely different type of tank. Scratch that one off the list. Mollies do better with salt, but they may be able to live without it. To avoid all problems I would just scratch them off the list too. Platies and swordtails look alot like mollies, and don't require the special attention. Go with those as a substitute. Alot of fish are very sensitive to salt, even in small amounts; especially catfish. The corydoras are catfish and the salt can cause health issues, which you don't want. I would stay away from all species that require any amount of salt.
I have never kept snails, nor would I. From what I understand, the only type of system where they are of any benefit, is in a pond. They reproduce like crazy, and can eat all the beneficial bacteria in your tank, causing serious, if not lethal water parameters. I would scratch them off the list too. The corydoras and loaches will take care of any leftover food on the gravel. That's really all the scavenging you need. You will have to do frequent pwc in order to maintain water quality. All that stuff people tell you about plecos taking care of the algae and scavengers is really unnecessary. I have plecos in every one of my tanks, and they don't eat the algae. I still have to clean it with a brush. PWC and an occasional glass cleaning with an algae brush (i.e. magfloat) is all you need to keep the tank up to par.
The bosemani rainbows can get large and bully other fish. With the tetras, I would choose only one group because you will have a nicer schooling display. If you get two different species, they may not school together. Stay away from killifish, they require special care. I had 2 killifish and the male harrassed my female to death and then proceeded to harrass every other fish in the tank, big and small, until I removed him.
I would go with
1 male swordtail 2 inches
2 female sword tails 4 inches
3 corys 7 inches
1 tiger pleco 6 inches
2 yoyos 4 inches
5 rummynose tetras 7 inches
Add these fish in this order, waiting at least a week and a half between add ons and you should be fine. With the tetras, it is recommende to have at least 5 for a schooling species. I have found that it is best to add schoolers at the same time. I put them last on the list because by the time you put them in, your tank should be well established and able to handle 5 fish at one time.
Next to the fish is their total adult size. If you go with this plan, (I tried to go as close to your preferences as I could) your total will be 30 inches of fish. Which will leave you with 15 inches to play with. By the time you finish this stock, I'm sure you will run into many species that will peak your interest and you will fill in the 15 inches in no time.
Here are some other suggestions that will be compatable with the above suggested stock.
A school of hatchetfish (you could also sub these for the rummynoses)
A butterfly fish 3 inches
2-4 platies 2 inches each
2-5 furcata or celebes rainbows 2 inches each
khuli loaches 3 inches each
fancy guppies 1 inch each
A school of harlequin rasboras (can substitute for the rummynose)
1 upside down catfish 3 inches note* if you decide to go with one of these, make sure it is not one that gets huge. There are only two species that stay small. The others get 6-10 inches and will have the rest of your tank for lunch.
Twig catfish 6 inches
Banjo catfish 4 inches
Hope this helps and keep us posted!!
I'm not sure if continueing to add ammonia is a good idea. Granted, I have never done a fishless cycle with FW. This is what happened when I cycled my tanks. First the ammonia would spike, then the nitrites would spike, then the nitrates. Once my ammonia and nitrites were at 0, and my nitrates were at 40 or below, I started to stock the tank.
I start with the hardiest fish first and add 2-3 small (1 inch) or 1-2 medium size (more than 1 inch) at a time. But of course, this all depends on what type of fish you're putting in there. If you have any super sensitive fish, only put in one at a time. I wait at least a week and a half before putting more fish in. Always monitor water conditions closely when stocking the tank. If you start to get ANY ammonia or nitrites, STOP STOCKING and wait till levels go back to normal. If your nitrates start to get high, you're probably feeding too much. Until the tank is fully stocked, I only feed every other day.
With stocking your tank.....
The basic rule of thumb for FW community tanks is to never exceed 1 inch of fish per gallon. When picking fish to stock the tank, always find out what their full grown adult size will be. Most fish stores have babies in thier tanks. The only fish that will stay approximately the same size are guppies, and some tetras. The best way to find out their adult size is to get a book that breaks down individual species. As I mentioned before, alot of people employed at the LFS are not informed or experienced aquarists, and they will not give you correct information. I can't tell you how many times I have asked questions and got ridiculously wrong answers from pet store employees. Even the little charts they have on the tank are wrong.
As far as your wish list, that is too many fish for your size tank. I calculted your adult sizes and it's almost 60 inches of fish. Most gobies are either brakish or saltwater. I'm not familiar with the species you mentioned, but I'm willing to bet it's a brakish fish, which is a completely different type of tank. Scratch that one off the list. Mollies do better with salt, but they may be able to live without it. To avoid all problems I would just scratch them off the list too. Platies and swordtails look alot like mollies, and don't require the special attention. Go with those as a substitute. Alot of fish are very sensitive to salt, even in small amounts; especially catfish. The corydoras are catfish and the salt can cause health issues, which you don't want. I would stay away from all species that require any amount of salt.
I have never kept snails, nor would I. From what I understand, the only type of system where they are of any benefit, is in a pond. They reproduce like crazy, and can eat all the beneficial bacteria in your tank, causing serious, if not lethal water parameters. I would scratch them off the list too. The corydoras and loaches will take care of any leftover food on the gravel. That's really all the scavenging you need. You will have to do frequent pwc in order to maintain water quality. All that stuff people tell you about plecos taking care of the algae and scavengers is really unnecessary. I have plecos in every one of my tanks, and they don't eat the algae. I still have to clean it with a brush. PWC and an occasional glass cleaning with an algae brush (i.e. magfloat) is all you need to keep the tank up to par.
The bosemani rainbows can get large and bully other fish. With the tetras, I would choose only one group because you will have a nicer schooling display. If you get two different species, they may not school together. Stay away from killifish, they require special care. I had 2 killifish and the male harrassed my female to death and then proceeded to harrass every other fish in the tank, big and small, until I removed him.
I would go with
1 male swordtail 2 inches
2 female sword tails 4 inches
3 corys 7 inches
1 tiger pleco 6 inches
2 yoyos 4 inches
5 rummynose tetras 7 inches
Add these fish in this order, waiting at least a week and a half between add ons and you should be fine. With the tetras, it is recommende to have at least 5 for a schooling species. I have found that it is best to add schoolers at the same time. I put them last on the list because by the time you put them in, your tank should be well established and able to handle 5 fish at one time.
Next to the fish is their total adult size. If you go with this plan, (I tried to go as close to your preferences as I could) your total will be 30 inches of fish. Which will leave you with 15 inches to play with. By the time you finish this stock, I'm sure you will run into many species that will peak your interest and you will fill in the 15 inches in no time.
Here are some other suggestions that will be compatable with the above suggested stock.
A school of hatchetfish (you could also sub these for the rummynoses)
A butterfly fish 3 inches
2-4 platies 2 inches each
2-5 furcata or celebes rainbows 2 inches each
khuli loaches 3 inches each
fancy guppies 1 inch each
A school of harlequin rasboras (can substitute for the rummynose)
1 upside down catfish 3 inches note* if you decide to go with one of these, make sure it is not one that gets huge. There are only two species that stay small. The others get 6-10 inches and will have the rest of your tank for lunch.
Twig catfish 6 inches
Banjo catfish 4 inches
Hope this helps and keep us posted!!
SparKy697
Aquarium Advice Addict
Starfyre, I don't mean to be contrary but you make some inconsistent statements. As with most things in life, the terms always and never are not always the best choice here.
I do know that the one inch of fish per gallon is a general starting point. You can find quite a number of discussions on this board where that rule is bent or broken. I'm not advocating that you ignore it but I'm pretty sure that 12 one inch tetras are no where near the biolaod of a 12 inch Oscar for example. There are other issues to be taken into consideration like filter capacity, maintenance schedule, feeding rate, and more.
I'm not sure what type of snails eat your beneficial bacteria, but you will find more than a few people here that purposely place snails of a desirable type in their tanks for the benefits that they provide. Algae contro,l and general cleanup just to name a couple. MTS are great for getting into your substrate and mixing things up for example.
Part of the advantage of a fishless cycle is that you get to build up a healthy stock of bacteria that can handle a substantial bioload. You would typically continue to feed ammonia until you reach a point where nitrite has peaked and returned to zero, and after feeding a dose the levels of ammonia and nitrite return to nearly zero within 24 hours or less. After that you would be able to stock your tank with nearly a full load of fish with no ill effects, because you have cultured an adequate number of bacteria that can handle the ammonia. In fact, if you only place a couple of fish in the tank and wait a substantial amount of time, I believe that you will lose some of your bacteria and cause a mini cycle when you add the next wave of fish. This would eliminate much of the benefit you would have gained from doing a fishless cycle in the first place.
I would strongly suggest at this point to continue feeding ammonia until you see nitrite take the normal course.
I do know that the one inch of fish per gallon is a general starting point. You can find quite a number of discussions on this board where that rule is bent or broken. I'm not advocating that you ignore it but I'm pretty sure that 12 one inch tetras are no where near the biolaod of a 12 inch Oscar for example. There are other issues to be taken into consideration like filter capacity, maintenance schedule, feeding rate, and more.
I'm not sure what type of snails eat your beneficial bacteria, but you will find more than a few people here that purposely place snails of a desirable type in their tanks for the benefits that they provide. Algae contro,l and general cleanup just to name a couple. MTS are great for getting into your substrate and mixing things up for example.
Part of the advantage of a fishless cycle is that you get to build up a healthy stock of bacteria that can handle a substantial bioload. You would typically continue to feed ammonia until you reach a point where nitrite has peaked and returned to zero, and after feeding a dose the levels of ammonia and nitrite return to nearly zero within 24 hours or less. After that you would be able to stock your tank with nearly a full load of fish with no ill effects, because you have cultured an adequate number of bacteria that can handle the ammonia. In fact, if you only place a couple of fish in the tank and wait a substantial amount of time, I believe that you will lose some of your bacteria and cause a mini cycle when you add the next wave of fish. This would eliminate much of the benefit you would have gained from doing a fishless cycle in the first place.
I would strongly suggest at this point to continue feeding ammonia until you see nitrite take the normal course.
Yeah..I said I have never done a fishless cycle in FW, so I am not familiar with that route. Are you saying that by doing a fishless cycle, you can fully stock your tank in a day??? I have always stocked my tanks a little at a time and have had success. I was never told to do it any other way either. That would be great to just stick in a bunch of fish all at once!!! Where's this artcle on fishless cycling? I just may go that route the next time I do a FW setup.
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