coralbandit
Aquarium Advice Addict
I've gone on 9 day vacations without a loss or anyone watching after them.
I only feed my fowlr(predator) tank 1 time a week.
Fish don't get magically fed in the wild ,they earn it and sometimes go without.
Nitrate
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I only feed my fowlr(predator) tank 1 time a week.
Fish don't get magically fed in the wild ,they earn it and sometimes go without.
candymancan
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Just want you guys to know that While plants do use nitrates.. They aren't the first thing they go for.. In fact plants prefer ammonia over nitrates.. There was a scientific study done I forgot where the article is.. but it proved that plants do not like nitrates.. and used them up very slowely. They only help a little bit.
Youre issue based on your food picture if you feed your fish wayyy too much.. You feed your fish almost more then I do my discus... I feed my discus 3x a day using 2 cubes of beefheart and then a tiny pinch of flakes.. And in my 44g tank that I had them in previous I had to do 80% water changes every 2-3 days.. On the 3rd day my nitrates were at 20-40ppm.. Imagine this in your 20g tank.. This is where your nitrates are coming from.. Excessive feeding and not enough water changes.
That pile of flakes you feed your fish... Reduce that to a small enough pinch where they can eat the food in 5 minutes or less. And only one time a day.. Your algae wafers.. 3 is too much.. Algae wafers are really big polluters in an aquarium.. 1 a day is more then enough...
Unless you have some fish that's going to grow HUGE like a discus, or some kind of cichlid you only need to feed your fish once a day and small amounts. You can feed more of course.. but remember youll need to do more water changes..
I suggest you do 50% water changes every 2 days until your nitrates drop.. and then feed less and keep an eye on the nitrates.. When I do water changes in ALL of my tanks.. I do 50-80%... I don't believe in small 15-25% water changes.. That isn't enough to remove the nitrate build ups. And as long as you keep a thermometer in the bottom of the tank and make sure you keep the temperatures with the new water the same, and use prime to declorinate if you have city water.. then you will be fine
Youre issue based on your food picture if you feed your fish wayyy too much.. You feed your fish almost more then I do my discus... I feed my discus 3x a day using 2 cubes of beefheart and then a tiny pinch of flakes.. And in my 44g tank that I had them in previous I had to do 80% water changes every 2-3 days.. On the 3rd day my nitrates were at 20-40ppm.. Imagine this in your 20g tank.. This is where your nitrates are coming from.. Excessive feeding and not enough water changes.
That pile of flakes you feed your fish... Reduce that to a small enough pinch where they can eat the food in 5 minutes or less. And only one time a day.. Your algae wafers.. 3 is too much.. Algae wafers are really big polluters in an aquarium.. 1 a day is more then enough...
Unless you have some fish that's going to grow HUGE like a discus, or some kind of cichlid you only need to feed your fish once a day and small amounts. You can feed more of course.. but remember youll need to do more water changes..
I suggest you do 50% water changes every 2 days until your nitrates drop.. and then feed less and keep an eye on the nitrates.. When I do water changes in ALL of my tanks.. I do 50-80%... I don't believe in small 15-25% water changes.. That isn't enough to remove the nitrate build ups. And as long as you keep a thermometer in the bottom of the tank and make sure you keep the temperatures with the new water the same, and use prime to declorinate if you have city water.. then you will be fine
dcutl002
Aquarium Advice Addict
Interesting info. I agree with the feeding. But I am curious why I have to add Nitrates. I just assumed the plants "sucked" it up. I do have high light with CO2. The plants "pearl" like I have an airstone in the tank.
http://animals.pawnation.com/adding-plants-lower-aquarium-nitrate-levels-5291.html
http://animals.pawnation.com/adding-plants-lower-aquarium-nitrate-levels-5291.html
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Caliban07
Aquarium Advice Addict
I agree with this. I don't know if it would be a matter of preference or that fact that plants 'do not like nitrates' but the fact is is that plants require a form of nitrogen, why people automatically assume this means nitrates I don't really know. Ammonia is the first for of nitrogen presented in the cycle so it would make sense for the plants to utilise these first. It's probably more likely that the plants don't need to focus so much on the nitrate as ammonia is constantly being produced but think about it. If the plants are using ammonia before it can become nitrate then that will still help lower nitrates but you are right plants are not the sole answer. Water changes are.
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Caliban07
Aquarium Advice Addict
It is most likely down to competition. Usually In aquaria we pack plants species from different locations around the world in to one tiny area. Each species will have developed different characteristics in order to survive based on what is mostly abundant In there natural habitat so it is understandable that X plant may be able to absorb iron for e.g more efficiently than Y plant, but Y plant can utilise phosphates more efficiently than Z plant. While plants will have a certain degree of adaptability, we shouldn't expect them to bend over backwards to 'make it work' in our aquaria. One plant may find it a lot easier to adapt than others. Lighting and the size of plants will also play a big part of how plants compete. This is most probably why some plants fail and some plants thrive. This is why we HAVE to supplement nutrients often flooding the water column so much so that a lack of nutrients scenario will never exist. But the scenario where there is not enough nutrients to thrive will differ from one tank to the next depending on plants species, plant size, amount of plants, lighting etc etc.
Lighting is basically like whipping a horse. When there is enough carbon and nutrients available the horse will keep running but as soon as the nutrients run out the horse will not be able to sustain itself and it will eventually fail. The problem is, the whip doesn't stop and the higher the lighting the harder the whip and the more need for nutrients is required.
So if you have a heavily planted aquarium the available ammonia is not going to be shared evenly amongst each plant, some plants are going to suffer because of the rate it is being absorbed by the competition. If the ammonia is not enough to sustain the competing plants then they will probably turn to nitrate too which puts an even bigger strain on the slower absorbing plants. So we have to supplement nitrate as well as all the nutrients plants require so much so that every plants needs are met.
I have very low lighting t8 tubes so the number of photons falling on a leaf per second is significantly lower than higher lighting. Therefore the need for nutrients is less but the growth is much slower. I don't supplement nitrate. Just micronutrients, phosphate and potassium once a week. No issues so far but slower growth.
We should start a new thread really if we want to talk about this further.
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Trainer_Ruby_
Aquarium Advice FINatic
It makes sense that plants want ammonia more than nitrate being that oxygen to plants is like carbon dioxide to us(not useful and potentially deadly) and nitrate is is nitrogen trioxide meaning there are 3 oxygen partials attached to a nitrogen. And ammonia has 4 hydrogen attached to nitrogen meaning the plants can absorb it and remove necessary hydrogen to creat ammonium(NH3) don't ask how I asked my Chemistry teacher and that's what he said
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ImACoolguy
Aquarium Advice Addict
Don't mind me...
Just saying that dojo will want a bigger tank eventually. Temps above 75 can harm Because they are technically a cold water fish. And honestly my adult dojo can eat half the flakes in the cup picture by himself on a regular basis. In not a firm believer in the the eyeball rule.
Caleb
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Just saying that dojo will want a bigger tank eventually. Temps above 75 can harm Because they are technically a cold water fish. And honestly my adult dojo can eat half the flakes in the cup picture by himself on a regular basis. In not a firm believer in the the eyeball rule.
Caleb
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Can I just check.
So preference is ammonia (nh3)? That's what I always thought and that ammonium (nh4) can be used as well but a little more work. I believe plants will also pump h+ down to the roots which helps liberate elements for plant use. Wonder if that ties in.
Sadly here I did a filter clean Saturday and just had to dose nitrates today as they had dropped quite a lot. So I had thought nitrates can also be used but low preference as I had to go to dry ferts dosing due to nitrates otherwise dropping too low when I started a planted tank.
Caliban07
Aquarium Advice Addict
I'm not sure it's a rule per se. Although I haven't seen any anatomical articles or studies supporting it (not really bothered) I believe it must carry some weight with it. For the average community aquarium, half of the flake portioning shown in the picture per day is far too much.
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Caliban07
Aquarium Advice Addict
This article suggests otherwise. Apparently there is a lot more work involved in using ammonium over nitrate. Perhaps it is not that simple though. The gain from utilising ammonia could be much more potent than that of nitrate I really don't know. Need a botanist/chemist for this one. I'll dig around a bit more myself too.
http://www.kno3.org/product-features-a-benefits/nitrate-no3-versus-ammonium-nh4
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ImACoolguy
Aquarium Advice Addict
I don't believe there is really a rule to feeding. It's basically testing on a regular basis to see how much your fish will eat daily. Like nitrates vs water changes its all a balance. I have neon tetras that will eat a flake half the size of its body, while I also have a GBR that's picky and will eat a few NLS pellets a day. It depends on the fish and it's appetite.
Caleb
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Caliban07
Aquarium Advice Addict
That is true but fish don't usually switch off when they are full so giving them what they eat may not be the best way to gauge it. I agree though, it's not rocket science just experience and a bit of common sense.
I added a quarter of a wafer for my Assassin snails yesterday. Needless to say they didn't get any of it and I came home to a swordtail that couldn't pull himself away from the surface of the water.
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Trainer_Ruby_
Aquarium Advice FINatic
They say the rule is as much food as your fish eat in 2 minuets. That's the feeding rule I've heard people use most
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Caliban07
Aquarium Advice Addict
Caleb is right to an extent. It's hard to make sure everyone is getting their fair share when you have different level swimming fish. Or a mixture of docile slow swimming fish and zippy top swimming fish.
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ImACoolguy
Aquarium Advice Addict
That is correct. I have to pretty much hand feed my ropefish so my rainbows don't take his food.
If there was an established rule for feeding I believe the 2 minute rule is the closest.
The eyeball rule is just ridiculous IMO. Take a look at a ropefish. If I had mine the size of its eye I would have some beat up or missing fish quickly. It's eye is very small. I feed him a 1-2 inch. Nightcrawler worm a day. In turn, be leaves my other fish alone.
Caleb
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PassengerTN
Aquarium Advice Addict
Eyeball rule is a bit silly. I know its apples to oranges, but look at giant marine predators. Their eyes aren't large but their stomachs are.
trennamw
Aquarium Advice Addict
It does sound like too much food, too few water changes leading up to now.
I had a 29 gallon with 35 tiny fish including snails and Otos. It got 1 algae wafer a few times a week, and for other food ... About as much as would cover my thumbnail twice a day. Been that way for a year and no issues
I have some variations in aggression and lots in swimming level and have no issues. I use New Life Spectrum .5mm pellets, and the red scoop that comes with the Betta Dial a Treat ... Two scoops twice a day.
And I crush and drop the algae wafer where the Otos hang out and where the tetras and danios have a hard time fitting.
The slime in the tank is biofilm. It's good. Leave it.
The snails will help keep things clean too.
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I had a 29 gallon with 35 tiny fish including snails and Otos. It got 1 algae wafer a few times a week, and for other food ... About as much as would cover my thumbnail twice a day. Been that way for a year and no issues
I have some variations in aggression and lots in swimming level and have no issues. I use New Life Spectrum .5mm pellets, and the red scoop that comes with the Betta Dial a Treat ... Two scoops twice a day.
And I crush and drop the algae wafer where the Otos hang out and where the tetras and danios have a hard time fitting.
The slime in the tank is biofilm. It's good. Leave it.
The snails will help keep things clean too.
Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.
OP
OP
Trainer_Ruby_
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Agreed my kuhli loaches have eyes about the size of a pinhole yet one can eat a sinking wafer and still rummage for food minuets later
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It's hard with rules and guidelines 
I've found that after a while I can pick when they are sorting through the flakes.
I feed once a day but probably over feed so the catfish have a chance. I find that works for me better than trying to feed small amounts twice a day.
I've found that after a while I can pick when they are sorting through the flakes.
I feed once a day but probably over feed so the catfish have a chance. I find that works for me better than trying to feed small amounts twice a day.
ImACoolguy
Aquarium Advice Addict
It's hard with rules and guidelines
I've found that after a while I can pick when they are sorting through the flakes.
I feed once a day but probably over feed so the catfish have a chance. I find that works for me better than trying to feed small amounts twice a day.
I only feed one big meal a day because of my work schedule. Never had problems wit it.
Caleb
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