Phosphate Problem

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bmg213

Aquarium Advice Regular
Joined
Nov 7, 2003
Messages
86
Location
NJ
I just tested the phosphate level, and Ph (and a few other things) in my tank because Ive been having terrible problems with some hair-like algae growing on my plants.

I have no clue how it got there, but my Ph was at 5.0, but even more shocking than that, the phosphates were at 10 ppm which as far as I understand is incredibly high. I have not been over feeding, and I have been doing water changes every 10-14 days. I also did a test of the tap water that I use when doing water changes, and that only showed a phosphate level of 1ppm.

Can anyone help me with what may be causing this, whats the best way to reduce it, and if my assumption about it being the likely cause of the algae problem Im having?

Thanks in advance for any help! :)
 
do you do alot of topping off from evaporation?
any PO4 in the tapwater can be a problem.. running a tap water purifier should help..
Is there anything dead and decaying in the tank like a fish, plants or even algae?
to be honest with you.. your bacteria likely died at that PH..

you will need to be very carefull how you procede.. too much change all at once will likely harm your inhabitants..
look into getting a tap water purifier (AP makes one) to remove the PO4 from your tap..
once you can get PO4 free tapwater do frequent very small water changes.. like 5% every day.. manualy remove as much of the algae as possible and try to use the syphon to remove what might have broke off durring your manual removal..

it would be helpfull to know what your NH3, NO2, NO3 and tap water PH levels are at this point as well..
I hope you have good luck with solving this..
 
1ppm from the tap is kind of high. I suggest testing NO3 levels in the tank...if you have 0ppm, that's the reason your phosphate is building up. If plants don't have good NPK levels, they'll stop growing and stop nutrient intake.

Several small water changes are going to be needed to correct your pH safely, just like Greenmaji suggests. do 5% for a couple days, then when your pH hits 6.0 you can bump up to 10-15% changes.

I'd also like to know your Kh levels.
 
Hi everyone, thanks for your feedback....it is VERY much appreciated.

greenmaji:
To answer some of your questions:
-I do not do a lot of topping off due to evaporation, although I am curious to know how that would impact the phosphate situation other than it just being my tap water continually adding more phosphate.
-I am not aware of anything dead or decaying in the tank. I do have one large (about 14" high and 8" wide) piece of driftwood that has a small amount of blue green algae on it. When I do my water changes I usually scrub it off with a tooth brush and remove it while doing water changes.
-When you refer to the tap water purifier, who is the manufacturer AP?

workfortheman:
-I have been using Seachem Neutral Regulator to maintain the Ph and have had no problems for a little over 2 years.

malkore:
-Thanks for the info about 1ppm from the tap being high, I didnt think it was...now I know.
-I can get back to you on the other water parameters. I tested last night, and did a 10% water change after I saw the results. When I return home from work today I plan on testing again.
 
Why use the neutral regulator? fish are more concerned about a stable pH and Kh than a perfect pH. Only a few species are that picky about pH. I keep tetra in hard, alkaline water, and they do great (but I'm not trying to breed them).
 
The nutral regulator product could very well have PO4 in it.. I would advise discontinuing its use..
AP is Aquarium Pharmaceuticals (Doc Wellfish brand)
link http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=22577;category_id=1755;pcid1=;pcid2=
If you get PH buffers with it.. throw them away.. they are more trouble then what there worth
as malkore explaned if you dont have any NO3 your PO4 will not be consumed by your plants.. NO3 should be dosed to 10-15ppm to allow your plants to consume the PO4.
and we really need to know what your levels are to get a real idea what might have happened.
Any NH3/NH4 or NO2 is a very bad sign.. you would need to take extra care if your getting a reading of these two nutrients at all. (meaning youll need to make sure your pwc's do not rase the PH over 6.0 untill your bacteria can get going again)
Your NO3, KH of the tank, KH of the tapwater, and PH of the tapwater make helping you alot easier..
 
Ok, so work went longer than I thought tonight and by the time I got home, ate dinner and finished up some more work, my fishes went to sleep so I dont want to turn on the lights and disrupt them. I will get back to all of you with info tomorrow. Thanks again for your attempts to help out!

Malkore...I dont know I guess thats a good question. I was using it every now and then and it did a good job of keeping my ph at around 7...I guess I just dont like change. :)
 
Ok...just finished with a 10% water change...a little more removal of some algae, and some testing. Here are the test results:

Tank
NH3 = 0
NO2 <.3
PH = 5.0
KH = 4
PO4 = 10

Tap Water
KH = 3
Ph = 5

greenmaji, thanks for the link to the tap water purifier, Ill probably pick that up asap, along with a test kit for NO3 which I thought I had already but dont.

Thanks again to everyone for your help!
 
Also, forgot to ask...I ordered Seachem's PhosGuard. Has anyone used that in the past?
 
Just thought Id move this back to the top and see if anyone had any other thoughts?
 
as far as phosgard is conserned its a temperary fix to a long term problem.. if you get a tap water purifier it will do you more good to change the water then mess with PO4 removing chemical media..
your NH3 seems to be fine.. you shouldnt have a NO2 reading at all, I would test again and see if its just not the testkit or testing error giving you a positve reading on it..
so.. if your NH3 and NO2 are fine then small water changes untill your PH is up to about 6 and then 10-15% there after untill your PO4 is down to about 5ppm.. as malkore said eailier
you will need to dose NO3 to 15ppm most likely.. some sechem florish nitrogen or KNO3 from greg wattson is whats normaly advised and used (depending on the size of the tank, KNO3 is alot cheaper to make your NO3 dosing drops for dosing big tanks)

It is possible that overfeeding the fish helped the PO4 get this high.. rotting fish food is the #2 cause after PO4 in the tap water. Just a word of caution side note. HTH
 
bmg213 said:
Also, forgot to ask...I ordered Seachem's PhosGuard. Has anyone used that in the past?
As gm said it's a temp fix that should not be used long term but it works. I had similar problems with my phosphates in the past and used phosguard in conjunction with PWC to lower my readings. Now I have very low phosphate readings and I no longer use the phosguard.
 
greenmaji,

Can you reccoment a specific kit for testing the NO2? Ive tested 3 times using that kit and always get the same result. The color chart that you match your water sample to doesnt have a 0ppm on it, the lowest one is <.3 ppm. For all I know I am at 0, its just that the chart does not distinguish between 0 and <.3 :?

Thanks again for all of your great advice!
 
what brand are you using.. most here use AP
red sea and nutrifin (hagans testkit) are suppose to have clearer results.. HTH

there is a very good chance that you have zero NO2 and getting that reading.. I would say its safe to prosed with your water changes.

the advice isnt a problem.. :p
 
I used Seachem's Phosgaurd and it really helped lower my phosphate levels...
so I'd have to say I recommend it.
It was the only thing that saved my tank from a life of forever green-nes!
Though, I'm pretty new to all this so you don't have to listen to me!
Ry.

ps. did you buy all your test kits together in a pack?...or did you you collect them individually?
 
greenmaji,
I am using the Tetra brand test kit, but will look into your recomendation just to verify. Cant hurt to have 2 test kits to verify my findings.

fastfly48,
Of course Id listen to you...Im always open to hearing what anyone has experienced, Im not exactly advanced when it comes to caring for plants anyway.

I bought some of my test kits individually, but for KH/GH, PH, and NO2 it was one combined kit.
 
Ok, so Ive taken all of the advice here, which I really appreciate. Ive been doing PWCs with the new tap water filter I bought, and the PO4 has been cut in half. Here are the results from my last water test:

GH = 4
KH = 0
Ph = 6.2
NO2 = <.3
NH3 = 0
NO3 = 0
PO4 = 5
 
You have no ammonia...which is very good.You still have a little nitrite, which indicates, if it's right, that you may be in the middle stage of a cycle or at least a mini cycle. You definately need to get some nitrAtes into the tank for the plants to begin using all the other nutrients. While that nitrite will eventually turn into nitrAtes, it won't be near enough and it won't last long. once you can get your plants going strong, they Will help keep the PO4 down, but may need some help if you feed alot. Also,stay away from the cheaper flake foods if possible, they breed PO4 like crazy. HTH
 
bmg213 said:
Also, forgot to ask...I ordered Seachem's PhosGuard. Has anyone used that in the past?

Yes, it works fine. I used to use it to suck up the phosphate in my tap water. (2 ppm) I would hand a filter bag full of it in my tank after water changes.

However, I am now heavily planted, and I just let my phospate stay around 1-2, and be sure to keep my nitrates up 15-20. this keeps me around the 1:10 ratio and seems to be working so far.... :D

Now, no more resin beads to deal with.
 
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