planted tank

[OceanMist]

I have just stripped down my 85 gallon marine reef to house my discus, I would like to try planting the tank, I understand I need fertilizer ... can anyone tell me which fertilizer to use and when etc. My lighting shouldn't be a problem for many plants (2x 150 watt halides), would I need to change the bulbs to a lower k rating or would 10k and 14k work? I think I will use DIY CO2 (6x 2l bottles??), also what substrate should be used (currently playsand)??

I need to use stuff that will not mess with water hardness or PH being a dicus tank, the water is 80% RO.

Thanks in Advance

 

[JDogg]

I have just stripped down my 85 gallon marine reef to house my discus, I would like to try planting the tank,

cool

I understand I need fertilizer ... can anyone tell me which fertilizer to use and when etc.

for an 85 you can do ferts a couple ways, the very easy but expensive way or the still easy but much cheaper way... the very easy ways would be to buy premixed ferts, i recommend Seachem brand, what exactly you will need might depend on bioload and what you tap water looks like (NO3, PO4, ...) you will need Potassium i am sure, i have yet to see tap water with a significant level of K and a good trac mix. the little harder (by just a tinny bit) would be to buy dry ferts in bulk and mix them yourself...this is the what i use for my 75 gal planted tank and this is the place to get them http://www.gregwatson.com/categories.asp you will need CSM+B (this is your trace mix, you can also get NO3(Potassium Nitrate), PO4(Mono Potassium Phosphate), K(Potassium Sulfate) and depending on your GH and KH you might need Calcium and Magnesium. you just figure out the right concentration and dosing amount for your tank (we can help you with that) little more work for you, but it is a lot cheaper in the long run IMO

My lighting shouldn't be a problem for many plants (2x 150 watt halides), would I need to change the bulbs to a lower k rating or would 10k and 14k work?

general plant prefer a k ratting of around 5000k-6700k,

I think I will use DIY CO2 (6x 2l bottles??)

this is what i use for my 75, it is working fine for me right now, some member might suggest you just go pressurized, (sugar gets expensive) i say try the DIY and see what you get out of it

also what substrate should be used (currently playsand)??

I need to use stuff that will not mess with water hardness or PH being a dicus tank, the water is 80% RO.

Thanks in Advance

some members has success with pool filter sand, other use fluorite or eco-compleat, are you looking just for just a substrate of are you looking for a nutrient rich substrate? in my tank i have a bottom layer of Eco-compleat (a nutrient rich plant substrate) and then a top layer of fine gravel...i like the look 8)

 

[JustOneMore20]

Plants can use light up to 10000K so if you already have a 10K bulb, it would do the trick. Then you'd just have to replace the other with something from 5000-10000K. 5000K is more red...I personally like 6700K and use a combo of 10K and 6700K over my 55g.

For a tank that large, I'd just go with dry ferts. Buying the Seachem can get expensive. Especially with the amount of light you have and your plan for CO2. Greg Watson ferts are cheaper and last a good while.

Also, I'll suggest you go with pressurized CO2. It will be expensive in the beginning, but well worth it. You will soon get tired of changing out all those bottles. Also, if you are going to keep Discus, pressurized CO2 would be more stable and you would experience less, if not any pH swings...and IMO with expensive fish like Discus, that would be something I'd worry about.

In the end its your decision, but I thought I'd give my 2 cents.

 

[rkilling1]

Plants can use light up to 10000K so if you already have a 10K bulb, it would do the trick. Then you'd just have to replace the other with something from 5000-10000K. 5000K is more red...I personally like 6700K and use a combo of 10K and 6700K over my 55g.

K rating has to do more with visible light then how well it works for plants. Plants perfer lights with a wavelentgh (nm) in the blue and red areas and that is not solely dependent on the K rating. IE a Bulb with a K rating with 20000K that has wavelengths in the 450's and 630's (blue and red), will be fine for growing plants, but it will look very purple to the eye.

 

[OceanMist]

wow, this plant stuff is confusing ... that Greg Watson stuff is probably great, but being in the UK it is probably not available to me, anyway, I'll probably be able to get the seachem ferts ... or find some equivalent dry ferts.

about the CO2, although I do not mind spending the money on a pressurised system, I would prefer to try DIY at first to see what results I get, would 6x 2litre bottles work, changing 3 out each week (alternative weeks), how consistant will this be?

also will the playsand work for plants? I like the look plus it would save me time changing it all out.

TIA

 

[mr funktastic]

the play sand will work but offfers no nutrients to the plants. u can substitute by adding root tabs. go to www.gregwatson.com to see if they are available to the uk. it will be worth your money since the premixed ferts are quadruple the price and not even as good. 6 bottles would work but i mean u are looking at about 20 dollars in sugar and yeast a monthaswell as the hassle of changing them out. and the worry of the mixture not producing and causing ph swings which can harm your discuss aswell as major algea problems than can occur from it. pressurized will cost u about 125 for a good regulator ( www.rexgrigg.com ) and then u can get a bottle locally for around 80 for a 5 pound. then u would only need to fill it every 6 months or so which is around 15 dollars. this also assurs no hassle, constant levels ebtter results. its just not practicle for DIY at that size. ffor a 20 gal it is awesome just not right for your application. its not really that confusing. using EI dosing will make your life eas aswell as give u awesome results. thats alot of light so u can play with alot of different plants. its well worth the effort.

 

[OceanMist]

ok cool, as I said, I can afford to buy a pressurised system but it is all somewhat confusing, what exactly would I need? a cylinder and a regulator, what do I use to put the Co2 in the tank, also what size cylinder would be needed for an 85?

what else do I need, root tabs & ferts?

also If I were to change the MH bulbs to a lower spectrum, can I just use daylight (6500k) ones, as they cost nothing compared to aquarium ones?

 

[mr funktastic]

all that is envolved in a pressurized system is a regulator and a needle valve. reg grigg sells both. u can get one with or without a solenoid. the solenoid is used to automatically shut off the co2 at night i order to make it last longer. a 10 pound bottle would be great for a 85 gal and last for months. then all u have to do is screw the regulator to the bottle and attach the co2 line to the regulator. thats it. then u turn it on forget about it for like 3 months lol. for fertalizers u will need nitrate, phosphate, potassium and csm+b. there is a great link about EI dosing. it makes it very easy and works extreamly well. u can use any bulb witha 6500K spectrum. doesnt matter if it is specifically for aquariums or not.

 

[OceanMist]

okay, would this work;

JBL Proflora CO2 Set Vario 500, either set 1 or 2;

http://www.aquatics-online.co.uk/Z079204.asp

.. if so how long would a 500gm bottle last for before needing to be refilled?


also, to take the confusion out of the fertilizers can I use something like Seachem Flourish, maybe with Flourish trace?

,thanks

 

[Purrbox]

Looks like the 500gm bottle is just a little over 1lb. You'll probably be refilling it pretty frequently. Since the 5lb bottle would probably last about 3-6months, you're probably looking at 1-2 refills per month. Also make sure that it can be refilled locally, as you won't want to be waiting upto 3 weeks for them to refill it for you. Otherwise you're going to need 1-2 bottles as spares.

If you want to go with Flourish products skip the Flourish Trace and go with Flourish, they are both trace supplements but the regular Flourish is the better of the two. You'll still need Ferts for your Macros. If you want to stick with Flourish for these as well, you'd want to go with Flourish Nitrogen, Flourish Potassium, and Flourish Phosphorus. These will get very expensive over time as they are geared toward low light tanks and are fairly week solutions. If you can find the dry ferts, you'd be much better off.

 

[mr funktastic]

the first co2 system is just DIY in a pretty package and would be pointless to buy. its like the hagen or red sea system. the second one u would be lucky if it lasted a month. the jbj systems just looks pretty. if u go to www.rexgrigg.com and order a regulator and all the parts he will put it together for u if u ask and u will get the full system ready to go for about 140 bucks then u would just need to pick up a bottle somewhere local. or u could even get one online at www.aquariumplants.com or www.kegworks.com . the only assemly u would need to do is screw the regulator onto the bottle lol its really not complicated at all. and as for fert dosing. flourish and flourish trace are the same thing except the trace is weaker. if u only dosed that u would get all your trace things like iron magnesium and stuff but u wouldnt be getting your macro that are more important like nitrate, phosphate and ptoassium. dosing doesnt need to be complicated if u arnt worried about exact numbers. if your target lets say 20 ppm of nitrate, 2 ppm of phosphate and howverer much potassium u want(it doesnt matter casue u cant overdose it) then all u need to do is a big water change to get your levels normal(basically tap water levels) then dose to get get 20 ppm(if u measure 10 ppm in your water then dose 10 more) then bring your phosphate up the same way and add in however much potassium u want(20 is the reccomended level) then the most common method of dosing is like this...
assuming u did your water change on sunday and added ferts
monday - flourish(or csm+b) dose to get .2 ppm of iron(there is a calculator that figures it all out for u)
tuesday - 5 ppm of nitrate, .5 ppm of phosphate 5 ppm of potassium
wednesday -flourish(or csm+b)
thursday - 5 ppm of nitrate. .5 ppm of phosphate, 5 ppm of potassium
friday - florish(or csm+b)
saturday 5 ppm of nitrate, .5 pm of phosphate, 5 ppm or potassium
sunday water change and bring your levels back up to where they need to be.

u can test after everwater change to see what kind of levels u need to add but after a while u will get used to what your tanks uses by the end of the week and u will know how much to dose. if u get gre watsons stuff there is a calculator that figures out exactly how much u need to add to get certain levels. u can dose the fertalizers dry of mix them in wtaer like flourish products. i hope that helps a little. my little dosing schedule may need to be adjusted to your tank if u have aot of fast growers or a lighter bioload and it was only intended as a guide so please dont think u can follow it exactly.

*****EDIT***** i meant to say u want to dose to get .2 ppm of iron not 2 ppm. thankyour rkilling1 for pointing that out for me.