Re-Cycling Tank, any thing else I can do?

[Alana10]

Hey everyone, I've been stalking the forum since establishing (or at least trying to) my tank since December and after reading your various responses and known experience, I trust you guys the most to help with my problem.

Long story short, I had a very hard time getting things right with my tank due to the huge array of "advice" out there, and establishing between what works and what doesn't. I'm having to recycle my tank due to a bacterial bloom when I left for the weekend, kept the AC off, and my tank got up to 86 degrees. After doing several water changes and treating my fish for the bacterial infections they contracted, I now have to recycle my tank I have battled with my tank's water quality since setting it up in December, but after reanalyzing everything, I think I may finally have the proper set up. I was hoping you guys could guide me to make sure I'm doing everything right (finally) and/or if there's anything I should be doing I'm not aware of.

Here's my set up:
29 Gal Tank
1 full spectrum 17 watt fluorescent light
2 filters: One "AquaClear50" and One "AquaTech 20-40 Gal" (came with the tank)
1 Double Outlet Aerator "AquaCulture" 20-60 Gal w/ bubble stones
Gravel: Glass 'marbles' or however you wish to refer to them

Living Things:
2 Small/Medium sized Orandas (Goldie Hawn and Michael Buble, haha)
1 Small Anubias plant
1 Small cluster of anacharis plants

Picture: Michael is on the lower right and Goldie is in the "cave," tail facing the camera. The anubias plant is on the left corner and the anacharis is sticking out the side of the 'sunken ship.' You can also see some brown algae/diatoms growing on the fake stick/branch and there is some green spot algae too, but very small.

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I finally went and bought an API Freshwater test kit:
pH: 7.4-7.6 (hard to determine between colors)
Amm: 2 ppm
Nitrite: 1 ppm
NitrAte: 2 ppm? (again, a 'between' reading in color between 0-5ppm)

According to the local aquarium shop (NOT a main chain, privately owned) the man suggested I was probably about 1/2 way through my cycle, and since the readings are relatively low, I wouldn't need to do a water change for probably another week or longer. I don't know how much I trust this, so I want other opinions.

I USE to have just the AquaTech filter, plus 3 additional glofish (didn't make it through the bacterial bloom) and none of the plants, so I have certainly upped my tank in terms of water quality since then. I have always done a 20-25% water change weekly using a siphon filter and stirring up gravel to get all the poop. I use to feed every day, now I'm going to feed every other day, with that said, I have another issue I was hoping to address:

Goldie (seen hiding in the 'cave') has some serious buoyancy/gas bladder problems. I have treated her with both internal and external bacterial medications, reduced feeding to once a day, have tried sinking pellets and peas (frozen, then thawed) and yet every evening she'll float at the top of the tank. It starts around 7-8pm ish, she'll float until I go to bed for the evening, but by morning she's Ok again, then repeat. Is she just one of those special fish with genetic/permanent gas bladder problems or could this be a more serious underlying issue?

Please, guide me! As silly as it sounds, I'm attached to my stupid goldfish and have invested quite a bit in both time and money (I don't even want to know, really) to try and keep them as healthy as I can.

 

[jetajockey]

Definitely do some water changing. You really want ammonia and nitrite to be as low as possible. Fish can tolerate a certain level of each, but each fish has a different tolerance level, and no sense in subjecting them to it when a simple water changes fixes the issue, albeit temporarily.

Even if water changes did affect the nitrifying bacteria colony, it's a small price to pay to keep the fish healthy. So at the worst, it may drag out the cycling process a little, but the fish will be happy and healthier. It likely won't slow down the process at all, though.

Most people recommend .25 ammonia .25 nitrite as a target goal to get your readings down to, and then do water changes as needed to maintain a low toxin level. A 50% WC every other day would keep things in check till the tank cycles. Best of luck, it does sound like you are halfway there.

 

[Alana10]

Would you suggest in addition to using Prime to help reduce ammonia/nitrite/nitrate? I have both Prime and the generic dechlorinator (which doesn't affect the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate.)

 

[bruinsbro1997]

Would you suggest in addition to using Prime to help reduce ammonia/nitrite/nitrate? I have both Prime and the generic dechlorinator (which doesn't affect the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate.)

Prime only gets rid of ammo and converts it into some other less harmful form of it. The only way to get rid of nitrItes and nitrAtes is if there is nitrifying bacteria to get rid of it or do PWC.

 

[librarygirl]

Seems like you are on the right track now. Just up the frequency of your water changes. Do a water test every day and let the test dictate whether you do a water change and how much (remember you want nitrite and ammonia as low as possible).

As for your fish's issue, it's hard to say, but a cycling tank is hard for fish. It's possible that if you do daily water changes and keep the ammonia/nitrite levels low the fish will get better, it could be the toxins that are getting to her. Skipping a day between feedings and feeding sparingly could be a good solution too if she is having swim bladder/digestive issues. If she keeps up the behavior after you increase your water changes then she might have some other issue going on.

Prime is the best dechlorinator, but it shouldn't be used in place of water changes. When your test kit shows a reading of ammonia or nitrite, it's probably time to bust out the bucket (but yes use Prime on the tap water! lol). Hopefully this cycle won't take too long if the tank was fully cycled before.

Do you know why your tank is re-cycling? Usually there's a reason. Have you replaced filter media recently or anything in the tank?

 

[Alana10]

I replaced the filter (the one with the carbon) since it was old and I had used external medication, so I needed some fresh carbon when the treatment was over, but I kept the 2nd "natural filter media" in there the whole time. This was before I went and purchased the AquaClear50, in addition to my other filter. Plus, I did significant water changes on almost a daily basis for a week to get rid of the bacterial infections they had. I didn't think Goldie was going to make it, she was in really rough shape, but pulled through and is acting OK now, just bobbing around again. She's always had this buoyancy issue, even before re-cycling the tank, so I'm kind of confused as to what it is or what could be causing it. Maybe because her water quality wasn't in prime shape even before? So I'll see if some more water changes and pea feeding will help her out. I just hate seeing my fish not in tip top shape and not understanding why.

 

[Alana10]

Ok, after two 20% pwc yesterday and one 40-50% pwc today, now it reads:

pH: 7.4
Amm: 0.5
Nitrite: 0.25
Nitrate: Closer to 0 now, if not at 0

I've taken my fish off of the higher protein pellet (fed daily) and now putting them on peas every other day to reduce ammonia output. Should I continue to do a 25% pwc tomorrow or wait until Saturday for a 25% pwc since I did so much the past 2 days? I don't want to kill my cycling process but I rather not kill my fish either.

Uhhg, this is so stressful.

 

[librarygirl]

Ok, after two 20% pwc yesterday and one 40-50% pwc today, now it reads:

pH: 7.4
Amm: 0.5
Nitrite: 0.25
Nitrate: Closer to 0 now, if not at 0

I've taken my fish off of the higher protein pellet (fed daily) and now putting them on peas every other day to reduce ammonia output. Should I continue to do a 25% pwc tomorrow or wait until Saturday for a 25% pwc since I did so much the past 2 days? I don't want to kill my cycling process but I rather not kill my fish either.

Uhhg, this is so stressful.

You're doing well. I'd definitely not wait two days to do a pwc. Your ammonia is still on the high side for fish and nitrite is borderline, if you let it wait too long it'll get too high. I'd personally do another water change today to get ammonia and nitrite down further, but that's just me. At the very least do a good 60%+ pwc (early) tomorrow. Let your tests dictate when to do a water change. You want to keep ammonia and nitrite as close to 0 as possible (under 0.25 is generally recommended) and nitrate under 20. So anytime your test shows a reading that's higher than those, time do to a pwc.

 

[Alana10]

I've done at least three 50% pwc with an additional two 25-30% pwc within the past 4 days, and I can't seem to get the ammonia below 1ppm or the nitrites below 1ppm. I've been using a full cap of Prime (meant for a 50gal) after each pwc for my 29 gal in hopes it'll offset the side effects. My smaller oranda, Michael, doesn't seem to be affected at all, but I feel like Goldie is more lethargic. She eats plenty fine and will swim around the tank now and then, but she's doing more bottom sitting and resting than I prefer. I've been adding salt as well (which I do anyway) for "stress reduction" and what not.

What else can I do? I know this has to be stressing my fish out and I hate seeing them like that. I'm unusually attached to them, it's pathetic.

 

[jetajockey]

Cut back on feeding if you haven't already. Try once every other day until the tank cycles, and just a small amount then, a few pellets each is plenty.

More waste in = more waste out.

Salt doesn't really help in general but it will help with nitrite toxicity at this point so it's not a bad idea to keep a small level in there.

 

[Alana10]

I currently switched them to 1 pea every other day (each get 1/2 of the pea).

Also, I'm pretty sure I just figured out my problem. I decided to do the smart thing and test my tap water straight from the faucet.

It has between .5-1ppm ammonia (kinda a 1/2 reading) but no nitrites (thankfully).

UHG. Now I've had these goldfish since December and I've been using the tap water (using dechlorinator of course) this entire time for their aquarium water. I suppose I'll just continue using the prime and watch the nitrites more carefully to keep those down, but not too much I can do with the ammonia. That really irks me. I didn't know ammonia could be in tap water for safety reasons....

 

[jetajockey]

Yeah chloramine treated tap water has a low level of ammonia in it. Luckily, a low level of ammonia is not necessarily a killer. Since it would be counter productive to do a WC at a reading around .5/1ppm it may be better just to wait for it to rise higher. You could just dose with Prime every 24hrs water change or not, and that should help keep the fish safe.

 

[Alana10]

I see the light!

I woke up, tested the water and got

Amm: 0.25 ppm (WHOOO!!)
Nitrites: 2+ ppm
Nitrates: SOLID 5 ppm (WHOO!)

Looks like I'm getting there, I just hope it's soon. I hate stressing over my fishs' health like this. I did a 40% pwc and got the nitrites down to 1ppm for the kids and double dosed the Prime for their little gills. Besides Goldie resting more than usual, they don't show any external signs of stress. I'm not too concerned about Goldie though, because anytime my husband and I walk past the tank (which means into the living room) she'll jet out from where she's sitting and freak out like we haven't fed her in a week. It's like having a puppy come greet you... Only quieter and not as heavy.... or furry.

Does anyone have a general idea *about* how much I have left? I realize every cycle has it's own time frame but I would like to think not much longer than a week or two (please, God..)

 

[Deckape]

I woke up, tested the water and got

Amm: 0.25 ppm (WHOOO!!)
Nitrites: 2+ ppm
Nitrates: SOLID 5 ppm (WHOO!)

Looks like I'm getting there, I just hope it's soon. I hate stressing over my fishs' health like this. I did a 40% pwc and got the nitrites down to 1ppm for the kids and double dosed the Prime for their little gills. Besides Goldie resting more than usual, they don't show any external signs of stress. I'm not too concerned about Goldie though, because anytime my husband and I walk past the tank (which means into the living room) she'll jet out from where she's sitting and freak out like we haven't fed her in a week. It's like having a puppy come greet you... Only quieter and not as heavy.... or furry.

Does anyone have a general idea *about* how much I have left? I realize every cycle has it's own time frame but I would like to think not much longer than a week or two (please, God..)

It is hard to say. But a aqueon or python water changer makes for an easy time doing water changes. Good luck.

 

[jetajockey]

I agree, there's no telling. Definitely invest in a water changer, if you want to do it on the cheap you can just get the aqueon faucet adapter from petsmart and use a regular water hose.

The fish may show no symptoms of poisoning at this point but all it takes is just a little too much and you'll have serious problems, so getting it down as low as possible is imperative.

 

[Alana10]

Test today:

Amm: 0.25 ppm (gradually declining now!)
Nitrite: 2 ppm (it will double from 1 ppm to 2 ppm as soon as 12 hours after a 50% pwc, I think I hit that spike. Fish are doing very well, despite.)
Nitrate: 10 ppm! yaay!

The light at the tunnel is coming up!

Fish are doing well, still feeding peas every other day with maybe some snacks on the "off day" (one or two little shrimp or maybe a pellet or two of sinking food.)

I would love to invest in a python/water changer of sorts, but sadly my tap water's temperature does not have a great temp range in summer time. I guess the pipes heat up (I live in FL mind you) and the coldest I can get is still over 10 degrees (mid 80s) higher than the aquarium, so I have to put ice in the bucket first to get it down to aquarium temps. I have a whole system with it, even down to how many ice cubes I need, and while it's more time consuming than preferred I'd gladly do it for them.