Setting up a 40g FW community tank?

[captaincritical]

Hello all,

I hope this is the proper place to post this. If not, please let me know!

I'm going to be setting up a 40g community tank and as I'm new to the hobby, I have quite a few questions. I've done a good deal of research about the nitrogen cycle, fish compatibility, etc., but I know it's always helpful to get a few opinions from knowledgeable people!

Question the first: I'd like to do a fishless cycle supplemented with either SeaChem Stability or Tetra SafeStart to speed things along. I know that I'll likely have to add ammonia (or some other source of it) in order to keep the bacterial colonies going strong until I get my fish, but I have a question about mixing conditioners and bacterial additives. I've been looking at SeaChem Prime as a water conditioner and noticed that it claims to render ammonia non-toxic. If I use this to condition my water and then add Stability, will the Prime nullify the ammonia needed to feed the introduced bacteria? I'm admittedly a little confused! I don't want one product to cancel out the other.

Question the second: I'm pretty sure I've decided on getting a small group of dwarf cories, a few red cherry shrimp, and 3 or 4 male platies. As per AqAdvisor, this leaves me the filtration capacity and space for another small schooling fish of some kind. I've considered neon tetras, cherry barbs, or small, non-agressive rasboras. Are there any clear favourites? Right now I'm partial to microrasbora kubotais but I'm doubtful that I'll be able to find them locally. I'm looking to keep things peaceful.

Thank you very much! I'm really excited to get things rolling.

 

[Fishperson]

1. No, it isn't a problem. This isn't exactly correct (my scientistese isn't great ) but basically prime turns ammonium into free ammonia, which isn't nearly as harmful to fish. On the API test, which measures total ammonia, it doesn't change the reading at all, but on some other tests it will give a false ammonia reading. And the bacteria can use either form of ammonia.

2. Well, second of all, I wouldn't base your entire stock on aqadvisor. It isn't as perfect as it is often made out to be. Microdevario kubotai are VERY hard to find, even on websites like aquabid.com, and are probably twice as hard to feed (they need live food and might accept frozen). Although they are really cool fish! I would consider the stock that you listed (4 platies, maybe 6 dwarf corys) to be around a 55% stock for your tank, give or take. So you definitely have lots of room. Tetras are great fish! I personally love rummynose (although they need a month old+ tank, and are fragile at first, but super hardy afterwards). Lemon tetras are really cool also. You could add 8 rummynose, 1 angelfish, 4 otocinclus vittatus and 1 bolivian ram. That would give you a nicely stocked tank!

 

[captaincritical]

Thanks very much for the advice, Fishperson!

That's good to know about the ammonia. One less thing to worry about.

I've been using AqAdvisor as a sort of learning tool just to get a feel for what a 40g can hold. I promise I'm not treating it as gospel. I'll likely be making many posts concerning stocking before I decide anything concretely. I'm indecisive like that.

Are lemon tetras any more difficult to handle than say, neons or cardinals? Aside from waiting a month or two for my tank to establish a happy bacteria level?

I was also thinking of getting a school of marbled hatchetfish at some point, but I'll be waiting on those until I get the hang of keeping my water quality consistent.

 

[threnjen]

1. No, it isn't a problem. This isn't exactly correct (my scientistese isn't great ) but basically prime turns ammonium into free ammonia, which isn't nearly as harmful to fish. On the API test, which measures total ammonia, it doesn't change the reading at all, but on some other tests it will give a false ammonia reading. And the bacteria can use either form of ammonia.

This is nitpicky but in the interest of good info - it's actually the opposite. Free Ammonia NH3 is what hurts the fish, and Ammonium NH4 is the less toxic form that Prime converts the Free Ammonia to. (sorry to nitpick you, just figure this will be a helpful clarification)
Doesn't change the advice given though which is true and I agree

 

[captaincritical]

Thanks for the clarification! I appreciate your nitpicking, actually. =)

 

[Fishperson]

This is nitpicky but in the interest of good info - it's actually the opposite. Free Ammonia NH3 is what hurts the fish, and Ammonium NH4 is the less toxic form that Prime converts the Free Ammonia to. (sorry to nitpick you, just figure this will be a helpful clarification)
Doesn't change the advice given though which is true and I agree

Thank you for the nitpicking, actually! It IS important to know and I knew I almost had it!

 

[bkiggy]

My 40g community consists of
15 Cory's, 2 upside down cat, 1 male Betta, 1 BN pleco, school of long finned Danio, school of dwarf rasboras , school of orange chela Danio. 4 shrimp, 4 Nerite snails...All live plants. Looking to get 2 panda garra.
I do 40% WC every week.
Prime is all I use. I did fish IN cycle. Took 8 weeks to finish. I will never do that again. Seachem Stability is all I used. Seachem products in general are all I use.

 

[Fishperson]

My 40g community consists of
15 Cory's, 2 upside down cat, 1 male Betta, 1 BN pleco, school of long finned Danio, school of dwarf rasboras , school of orange chela Danio. 4 shrimp, 4 Nerite snails...All live plants. Looking to get 2 panda garra.
I do 40% WC every week.
Prime is all I use. I did fish IN cycle. Took 8 weeks to finish. I will never do that again. Seachem Stability is all I used. Seachem products in general are all I use.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but how do you like your orange chela danios? Do you mind if I PM you about them, I'm thinking about some for my 10 gallon tank.

 

[bkiggy]

Their cool. Pretty. Not nearly has hardy as regular danios tho. Tend to have issues. 2 starting showing signs of TB after a year so took them out immediately !! All others ok

 

[captaincritical]

Thanks for the input, bkiggy! Can I ask what kind of shrimp you have? Are they relatively easy to keep?

I checked out the LFS in my city today and was pleasantly surprised by how healthy all of the fish looked. The staff was pretty knowledgeable, too. Looks like I got lucky! I also discovered that my tank was improperly labelled and is a 35 gallon, not a 40. Not a big deal.

Anyway, my partner surprised me today with an uncharacteristic enthusiasm for Angelfish. Since this aquarium is mostly my endeavour and he hasn't seemed interested until now, I'm now looking to include an angel as a surprise for him. I know I should only keep one in this size of tank, and that they can be finicky. I've changed up my stocking plan to make sure no fish end up as food for the angel.

So my new question is, how does the following look?

6 Bronze Corydoras
8 or 9 Orange Flame Tetras
6 Marble Hatchetfish
1 Angelfish
2 Red Cherry Shrimp*

* Would these become food?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Fishperson]

I think it would be fine if you cut the tetra school down to 6 or 7. Not a huge difference, but I personally would feel safer with it. But 8 would probably be fine. For the shrimp, they have almost no bioload, so you could probably go ahead and stock 5-10 of them at first, and they will multiply if they don't get eaten immediately. I think some angelfish may eat them, but some won't. So it really just depends.

 

[captaincritical]

Will the tetras be just as happy in a slightly smaller school? As long as there's at least 6 of them they should be fine, right?

About the angelfish, do you think the flame tetras would bother it at all? Fin nipping or anything like that? They're too big to become food, correct?

 

[Fishperson]

Well I doubt that they'd become food, but I guess there's a chance that they might nip it a bit, but it really depends on the fish. I don't really think they would cause any problems.

And no, they should be fine in a group of 6.

 

[captaincritical]

Beautiful, thank you so much!

 

[bkiggy]

Maybe not the Hatchet Fish, VERY prone to ICH. In fact I've never seen them without ICH. Up to u, they are just not a healthy fish that's all. You can do more Corydora if you want. 1 angel fish is fine. Choose a beautiful one (black maybe) and he can become your centerpiece fish!!!!! My shrimp are Amano... They are my cleanup crew. Be careful the tetras don't nip at the angelfish . You could get up one day and those long fins could be missing

 

[captaincritical]

Hmm, I wasn't 100% about the Hatchetfish. I know they can be very particular about water conditions, too. Maybe not for me at this point! Thanks for the heads up.

Do you think I could replace them with another smallish schooling fish for some more colour? Danios, maybe?

 

[bkiggy]

Danios, small rasboras, all good choices

 

[captaincritical]

I'll have a look around and see what catches my fancy. Thanks!

Do you think red cherry shrimp would end up as angelfish food?

 

[bkiggy]

Angelfish are not predators, their opportunistic. Stuff has to be directly in front of their face for them to care. They don't go out looking for trouble LOL
I agree with the previous post I would get like 12 of those red cherry shrimp....in a big tank you're never going to find them. I tried to keep them they lasted a week. My other shrimp killed them and ate them

 

[captaincritical]

For some reason that statement instantly endeared me more to angelfish, haha. Good to know.

I'll consider a good "handful" of RCS, then. My only concern would be ending up with too many through breeding.