Sick fish

[Delapool]

This actually just came from the sick fish. I can't be sure but I think it was coughed up when going for food.

View attachment 231932

It's a white cottony ball!

Poor thing.

Never heard if that! Maybe he fights cats at night?

Not plant wool? Just in case.

 

[Caliban07]

I only have 1 live plant. It's definitely like a fungus. Cottony strands coming off it.

I'm just thinking that if it was a parasite wouldn't it have found it's way in to the other fish by now?

 

[pip walters]

That depends- the sick fish may be weak for another reason (internal problems for instance) and therefore unable fight off the parasites. Weak fish tend to lose their protective mucus, allowing the bugs to proliferate. White patches are usually a good indication of parasite infection, especially chilo and also costia. Darkened colouration usually means the fish is in quite a stressed state.

Do you still have access to a microscope? You could do a skin scrape.

Let us know how it goes mate

 

[Caliban07]

Ok thanks. I do trust your opinion obviously it's just that I thought the majority of parasitic infections result in flashing/rubbing the infected areas to 'rid' of them?

Do you think this may be an internal parasite? If so, does salt still get to these? I have some waterlife meds for internal parasite but I'm also waiting on a delivery for fungus and gram neg bacteria.

What would you suggest?

 

[J.Mcpeak]

My guess and the info I have.

Flavobacterium.

Occurrence,
Sudden water changes inc quality, suitability, overstocking, infrequent wc.
(All water related)

Internal bacteria or methylene blue. (Water life myxazin)

Failing that, get a vet, chlortetracycline, nifurpirinol,
oxytetracycline-hydrochloride or phenoxyethanol.

 

[Caliban07]

Already tried myxazin to no avail.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Perhaps consider the root cause? Water quality/compatibility. (It may not be your fault, the rain played havoc with my tap source water to the point that virtually all of my systems went out of shape) I think I have solved the issue. If you mix tap/de chlorinator product as sole water for tanks, check and record source water, perhaps the issue lies there.

Given our conversations elsewhere I'm sure you're up to date.

Prevailing illness may not disappear if the primary factors are still in place.

Also, I assume you removed carbon? I'm sure myxazin states more than one application/course may be necessary.

Hope this helps, my No-3 went up to 40mg/l and TDS rose by a clear 100ppm it fluctuated around the high 300s after rain fall! Not good for my fishes! That's still acceptable drinking water.

 

[Caliban07]

The J.

Yes. The fish apparently looked worse after the myxazin. It was QT tank tank so there was no carbon. I don't use carbon anyway.

This fish has been like this for a very long time. Day 1 in fact. All 4 firemouths went in to a newly set up tank with pre cycled media. Water quality as far as maintenance is very highly kept.

The reason I haven't acted sooner Is because I wanted to see of the fish would recover now it was in 'better conditions'

It definitely looks like a fungus/bacteria issue but these could be secondary conditions to the root cause as you say.

I just gave a salt dip to see if that would make any difference although I'm not a huge fan of moving fish as I believe this causes more stress.

I'll give an update when I get home. The 3 other firemouths are in great condition.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Kh/pH


(I thought your water would be top spec, perhaps the fish is at the bottom of the group?)

Possibly temperature too high?

If you're on tap water, most likely it is that.

Test tap water Kh reading, that will give you an idea of the pH without 24 hrs waiting.

From what I can gather the water should be neutral to acid, under 24C, lower KH, GH not important (wide range not extra soft, 5-15dH)

 

[Caliban07]

All these recommendations would definitely be looked in to further if this fish had degraded in my water and my other fish looked the same.

This fish is an anomaly. My temp is at 27 degrees and ph is 7.5. Again if these were not in the range for these fish to thrive I would have expected all of them to be falling ill.

I could lower the temp I guess. I believe my tap water is soft. Maybe I need to look closer at this although I just don't feel like this is the issue.

They are fed blood worm, peas and new life spectrum cichlid pellets alternately but with more feeding of pellet.

Just a question on pellets. Should they be soaked prior to feeding?

 

[J.Mcpeak]

. . . . but, you know that fish within a species react differently to conditions outside of normal.

The same species will show different reactions as each individual has it's own metabolic state quite unique to the individual. This will include all processes that occur biologically and chemically with the species group.

This is how we breed super strains. Selective based on characteristic traits of individual specimens. (Plants/animals/bacteria/fungus)

 

[Caliban07]

This fish has not deteriorated in the water in which I keep it. It was purchased in this state. Do I alter my water to meet the individual requirements of this fish and risk upsetting the rest?

Is this what you would do?

 

[J.Mcpeak]

About the food, yes you can pre soak. I've done both ways and have observed no difference. Bigger mouth fish swallow whole, smaller mouth fish come back later, that's about all I could gather without dissecting intestinal tracts.


Normally I add pellets to the thawing bowl and soak for a few minutes (when I feed frozen, they soak with the water that thaws out of the frozen food)

If it's a dry feed, I just drop them in.

So I guess it depends on mouth size? Either way the food gets eaten.

If I crush it up it gets eaten by smaller mouths, this really only applies to fry.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Yes, in a manner of speaking but it is elaborate.

This fish has not deteriorated in the water in which I keep it. It was purchased in this state. Do I alter my water to meet the individual requirements of this fish and risk upsetting the rest?

Is this what you would do?

I can't find any documents on fire mouths with a temp at 27c. Is this temp necessary?

What else is in the tank?

I change the water to suit my fish(es) or set up a tank in which the water/flow/temp suits the fish(es)

Most have an overlapping range (community fish) still that's divided into tropical (24+), temperate (22-24) and cold (18-22) 24 seems the most suitable for the majority though not all inclusive.

This is again divided by salinity, alkalinity and hardness. (3-5bands each)

Then there is aquascape!

 

[Caliban07]

I can't find any documents on fire mouths with a temp at 27c. Is this temp necessary?



What else is in the tank?



I change the water to suit my fish(es) or set up a tank in which the water/flow/temp suits the fish(es)



Most have an overlapping range (community fish) still that's divided into tropical (24+), temperate (22-24) and cold (18-22) 24 seems the most suitable for the majority though not all inclusive.



This is again divided by salinity, alkalinity and hardness. (3-5bands each)



Then there is aquascape!

http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/modules/caresheets/caresheet.php?caresheetID=109

Maybe this is on the high side. I'll lower it a degree or two.

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Hmm, there it is!

Yes that is the upper limit. The atlas says 22-24. (I prefer published material for reference)

I have not really studied cichlids.

Normally I aim for the middle of the range given.

Why is it at 27? What else is in that tank, how big is the tank?

 

[Caliban07]

There's just 4 firemouth cichlids around 3'1/2 inches long in a 47 gallon. The idea is to have a breeding pair and the temp is set there to encourage this.

 

[Delapool]

. . . . but, you know that fish within a species react differently to conditions outside of normal.



The same species will show different reactions as each individual has it's own metabolic state quite unique to the individual. This will include all processes that occur biologically and chemically with the species group.



This is how we breed super strains. Selective based on characteristic traits of individual specimens. (Plants/animals/bacteria/fungus)

Could the change to lfs water trigger infection (from breeding place water to store water)?

 

[J.Mcpeak]

Could the change to lfs water trigger infection (from breeding place water to store water)?

I'm not sure what you mean? Lfs water could be contaminated (sale tanks) breeding place? What's that? The river or a shed near you? Both could be contaminated. All could be very different.

It could be (and most likely is) water issues. Either a change or difference for good or bad at too fast a rate. Really there are so many variables here, dependent on source and treatment prior to adding to a tank, it's a tricky thing.

Sometimes it isn't even your fault, things just go wrong, could be a weaker fish?

As for lfs water? You either get salt (marine strength) or pure (RO/DI) pure alone will definitely cause you problems with freshwater fish, it isn't up to sustaining much life. There are very few fish that would enjoy pure RO/DI water. Some type of remineralisation must take place. Some trust must exist with the store. I'm sure they don't offer neutral balanced water, at least not in England.

It could be a subordinate fish. Perhaps there are insufficient hiding places and the weakest fish consistently invades the territory of the stronger specimens.


@caliban, I've done some trawling online, it seems to be a minefield for temperature on this fish.

Cichlidforum.com
British cichlid association.

 

[Hobgob]

I only have 1 live plant. It's definitely like a fungus. Cottony strands coming off it.

I'm just thinking that if it was a parasite wouldn't it have found it's way in to the other fish by now?

Cottony strand like hair algae?