Start of a New Tank Diary

[MoxieGrrrl]

Okay, now that all the original fish are dead and I can pump up the temp, I went out and bought ammonia to help get the cycle kick-started.

However, the ingrediants include: soft water, ammonia, surfactant. And it contains no phosphorous.

I did a search on "surfactant" and I found the following... Definition: a linear molecule with a hydrophilic (attracted to water) head and a hydrophobic (repelled by water) end. Surfactants tend to clump together when in solution - forming a surface between the fluid and air with the hydrophobic tails in the air and the hydrophilic heads in the fluid. Often surfactants will form "bubbles" within the fluid - a small sphere of heads surrounding a pocket of air containing the tails. They can also form bubbles in air - two nested spheres of surfactant, between them a thin layer of water, surrounding a pocket of air - and antibubbles in fluid - a layer of air surrounding a pocket of water.

Does this mean it's some sort of detergent or is this safe to use to help cycle the tank?

I am going to be so bored waiting for the tank to cycle. No fishies to watch Please answer ASAP ))

 

[Jchillin]

Yeah, that's the definition of "detergent" moxie.

 

[verucaproduce]

You definitely don't want to use ammonia with a surfactant to cycle your tank. :?

 

[MoxieGrrrl]

(INSERT MANY FOUL WORDS HERE)

 

[verucaproduce]

I know just how you feel. I wasn't able to find any suitable ammonia locally to cycle with either. Sometimes I really hate living in the sticks.
Another option would be to cycle using fish food. I don't really like it though because it is very messy and works very slowly.
What type of fish are you planning on stocking?

 

[NinjaBill]

I've got my fingers crossed for you Moxie, you seem to be having a bit of a run of bad luck with your tank

 

[oscarbreeder]

Can you get any Bio-spira?

You could use a piece of raw shrimp to cycle with.
Just drop it in and let it decay.

 

[FancyGuppyGuy]

OUCH!!!!! I hope you did not already add that to your tank. 8O

If you did then I am afraid you will probably need to clean everything sterile again.

I dont think you want any kind of Soap in your tank or even a film of Soap.

 

[FancyGuppyGuy]

I have some notes on the fishless cycle with ammonia deal here they are.

The more seeded material the better. ( gravel, filter media, vaccumed water, etc.. )

VERY IMPORTANT!!!! (Below)

Make sure you get 100% pure clear ammonia: Austins Clear Ammonia, Sea Mist Clear Ammonia. Are the two I have found. (No added cleaners, no surfactants, soaps, etc..) the ammonia should have no sudsy bubbles what so ever ( basically looks like water ) as well as list the ingredients which should just be: Ammonium Hydroxide.

Sea Mist Clear ammonia lists: Ammonium Hydroxide and Quality Control Agents( water?).
Austins Clear Ammonia lists Ammonium Hydroxide (CAS 1336-21-6) Contains No Phosphorus.
Ace Hardware has their own brand of 100% Clear Pure Ammonia and will sometimes have it in stock.

The main keys to this fishless cycling are:

Test kits you must have ammonia, ph, nitrite, nitrate

Dechlorinated water 100% as chlorine kills bacteria.

A 100% Clean Pure Source of clear ammonia. No added cleaners, no surfactants, soaps, etc..
( when you shake there should be NO bubbles) There are also dry forms of ammonia.

ALOT of oxygen exchange ( air bubbles, surface current , etc) in the water the more the better.

Bacteria Seeded materials the more the better. (filter floss and juice, gravel, rocks, vaccumed gravel water, ornaments, etc.. from cycled tanks)

Temperature 72-88F. The temperature for optimum growth of nitrifying bacteria is between 77-86° F (25-30° C).

Micronutrients usually in tap water ( filters for deionizing, distilling, and reverse osmosis (hyper-filtration) produce water that is stripped of these nutrients.



Keep PH between 7.0ph -8.0ph. Extremes in PH will slow down cycling.

The optimum pH range for Nitrosomonas is between 7.8-8.0.

The optimum pH range for Nitrobacter is between 7.3-7.5



Keeping Ammonia down between 3-6 ppm. higher ammonia will slow down cycling or even kill off bacteria.


Phosphates: All species of nitrifying bacteria require a number of micronutrients. Most important among these is the need for phosphorus for ATP (Adenosine Tri-Phosphate) production. The conversion of ATP provides energy for cellular functions. Phosphorus is normally available to cells in the form of phosphates (PO4). Nitrobacter, especially, is unable to oxidize nitrite to nitrate in the absence of phosphates. ( ph Down is phosphoric acid)

Lighting can effect the bacterial colony.

Nitrifying bacteria are photosensitive, especially to blue and ultraviolet light. After they have colonized a surface this light poses no problem. During the first 3 or 4 days many of the cells may be suspended in the water column. Specialized bulbs in reef aquaria that emit UV or near UV light should remain off during this time. Regular aquarium lighting has no appreciable negative effect.

Organic wastes are needed to help the cycling as these bacteria feed off them as well as nitrite and ammonia. ( fish food, fish wastes, vaccumed gravel water from another tank, etc)

After you get a 0 reading on ammonia you still need to add 3-4 drops( per 10 gals) of ammonia a day(simulate fish wastes) to feed your bacterial colony and in order for nitrite to be produced and continue with the cycle.

 

[MoxieGrrrl]

No, no, I didn't use the bad ammonia. Just annoyed because I am getting blockaded at every turn :/

I must have gone to 5 different stores looking for pure ammonia and couldn't find it anywhere. There's a Home Depot nearby, but I boycott them so I have to wait for my local hardware store to open up tomorrow and check them.

At what point do I throw up my hands and get some feeders?

 

[czcz]

RITE-AID has pure ammonia. Don't give up.

 

[MoxieGrrrl]

RITE-AID has pure ammonia. Don't give up.

Not MY Rite-Aid :censor:

A&P, Target, Acme, Rite-Aid - none had ammonia w/out additives. Grrr.

 

[verucaproduce]

Are there any fish that you plan to use in your final setup that are considered hardy? That way if you monitored very closely and did water changes you probably won't lose a lot of fish.

 

[zero2dash]

I'm sorry that all your fish passed away Moxie I know it's hard and it sucks but don't kill yourself over this - it happens to everyone at one point or another. I always look at it this way...just be glad you're not running a marine tank that you just spent $1,000 dollars on tangs for that all just caught ich and died; I truly don't know how saltwater tank keepers don't kill themselves after their entire tank dies from ich and they spent all that money... *hug*

 

[MoxieGrrrl]

The community I wanted to have (at the end of it all): a pleco, an angelfish, a couple mollies, a couple guppies, a couple platies, maybe a swordtail. Recommend any of them?

 

[MoxieGrrrl]

I'm sorry that all your fish passed away Moxie I know it's hard and it sucks but don't kill yourself over this - it happens to everyone at one point or another. I always look at it this way...just be glad you're not running a marine tank that you just spent $1,000 dollars on tangs for that all just caught ich and died; I truly don't know how saltwater tank keepers don't kill themselves after their entire tank dies from ich and they spent all that money... *hug*

Awww such sweet plx

And god, I can't imagine starting a brand new saltwater tank and losing a grand worth of fish.

 

[verucaproduce]

I have used both mollies and platies to cycle without a problem. Maybe someone else can confirm???

 

[tetrin]

first of all, my deepest condolences...i have been following ur tank's activities closely...and all i can say is that it was NONE of ur fault...

mollies are used as starter fish in planted aquaria, good as cheap algae-eaters...but they are a bit touchy and there would be no live plants to help them either...
so the platies might be ur best bet...pretty hardy...come to think of it swordtails themselves are good as well...

 

[FancyGuppyGuy]

I found some at wal-mart, 99 cent store, and ace hardware sometime has their own brand.

 

[TomK2]

At what point do I throw up my hands and get some feeders?

Well, you still have to let the Ich die out. Unless you do a complete tear down and sterilization. So, for the next couple of weeks you can play junior chemist with the amonia. Then if the amonia and nitrites aren't too bad, try some platies. They are colorful and cheap. Go Slow. One inch of fish for each 5 gallons. wait 3 to four weeks, think about adding more.