Starting a pond...

[Rianyu]

I am moving soon and I will need to make a pond as the property doesn't have one. I'm not sure how to go about doing it properly and I'm hoping I could get some pointers. Some questions I have off the top of my head:

1) How big should it be?
- I live in Vancouver, BC Canada and the water does freeze over during the winter
- I have around 10 koi, 3 are around 24" at most

2) What kind of filter should I be looking at? Any suggestion on specific filters depending on the answer to question 1? I'm not sure what the current pond filter is, as it was installed before we moved in.

3) Whats the suggested method of lining the pond? My current one is cement and we've tried to do one with the plastic sheets but had a bad leak. Is that a common issue or did we do something wrong?

That's all I can think of right now. Thanks for taking the time to read and hopefully any suggestions!

 

[Fresh2o]

Congrats on the pond!
1. Not sure what size but pond build guidelines should be able to provide the minimum depth needed for your area/climate. Check this out.
2. IMO the best pond filter for a larger pond is multi-stage, gravity fed, and self-cleaning. The multistage allows for different sections to be serviced separately. The first stage can be a settling chamber, the second a mechanical chamber, and the third a biological chamber. Each chamber should have a drain with a valve and plumbing. This will allow the waste in each chamber to be flushed and waste carried away from the filter. The gravity fed implies dirty water from the pond is drawn in to compensate for the water being pumped out of the final chamber back into the pond. The intake should be situated near the bottom of the pond. Using this design, fish waste is collected in the first chamber intact and not churned into a microscopic slurry. This allows for excellent nitrogen waste management and better water quality.
So, I really did not give you any specific brand name but hopefully have provided features to look for.
3. Most likely the plastic that was used was not UV protected. Concrete is nice but if you change your mind down the road or need to modify something it could get costly. Here is a link with an overview of flexible liners: http://www.agroconection.com/garden_tips_folder/pond_liners.html


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[Rianyu]

Thank you so much for the input especially regarding filtration.

I had some further questions but for now I'll leave it until I do some more of my own research...otherwise just one question:

A neighbor has a concrete chamber that acts as a filter. As far as I could understand, he has a settlement chamber and then sand, gravel and rocks in the second chamber before the water gets pumped back into the pond. Does that make sense? Most of the tutorials I've seen/read use sponges and other more man-made media for the filter as well as a plastic tub instead of a inground cement chamber.

 

[Fresh2o]

You can use a cement tank for a filter. It may become a challenge when it comes to draining it. A sump pump can be used for draining it. Plastic tubs are lighter and easily drilled for drains.
My first pond filter featured expanded shale as a mechanical and biological filter. It was heavy enough as it is and after getting filled with muck it was hard to work with. I then switched to lava rock and that was a bit easier to work with. Finally, I switched to pall rings. These are small floating translucent cylinders. Maintenance was pretty easy: stop the pump, take a stick and swirl media, open the drain valve, refill the filter and start the pump back up. This was a single chamber filter serving a 10'x12'x20" deep pond.
Matala is a company that makes uv stable plastic filter mats that come in a variety of densities. (New) Plastic pot scrubbers are an economical and relatively easy to find.


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[enrgizerbunny]

45mil EPDM rubber is a good liner option

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[andresdeo]

How about a bog type open filter included? If you have the space, might be tough to keep it going during the winter, just throwing it out there.


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[Rianyu]

Oh an open filter? that's something new, never heard that before! I'm probably going to do a single barrel diy filter after some research, seems like the best way to go regarding cost and maintenance.


The pond probably won't be too big, so the current pump we have installed in the old house is a bit too powerful so I need something for a 2000 gallon pond.

Dad brought up a point (he's nervous about the project) that he's worried the pump would be easily clogged and broken because of the amount of debris in the pond. I guess the original one that came with the house didn't last long (though I'm not sure if it was already in a rough state).

The one way I thought may solve this problem is to install the pump after the filter and before the waterfall back into the pond. Is this okay? To my limited knowledge it shouldn't make a huge difference but I don't want to create an ineffective system.

 

[enrgizerbunny]

Oh an open filter? that's something new, never heard that before! I'm probably going to do a single barrel diy filter after some research, seems like the best way to go regarding cost and maintenance.


The pond probably won't be too big, so the current pump we have installed in the old house is a bit too powerful so I need something for a 2000 gallon pond.

Dad brought up a point (he's nervous about the project) that he's worried the pump would be easily clogged and broken because of the amount of debris in the pond. I guess the original one that came with the house didn't last long (though I'm not sure if it was already in a rough state).

The one way I thought may solve this problem is to install the pump after the filter and before the waterfall back into the pond. Is this okay? To my limited knowledge it shouldn't make a huge difference but I don't want to create an ineffective system.

You could install a solids settling tank (pain in the posterior in my opinion), or get a solid handling pump. Mine has a cage that won't allow anything over the size it can pump through. So the leaves and sticks stay away from the impeller, but poop and other smaller debris get pumped to the filter. Up flow, gravity return barrel seems to be the simplest DIY filter and they work fine.

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[Fresh2o]

Depending on your setup, you can use a pump bag which is basically a taunt mesh bag the surrounds the filter.
When I had a larger pond, I connected the pump intake to a milk crate using PVC. I then wrapped it with a mesh laundry bag. It did a good keeping the pump intake free of debris.


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[enrgizerbunny]

I might add that the pump after the filter would require the filter to be gravity fedat a rate greater than that of the pump. Most people use pressure fed, gravity return filters with the output pipe being much greater compared to the input to prevent overflow.

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[Rianyu]

I see... I think I may get a bottom drain with smaller openings then and use the pump before the filter since the one I have has a high gph and I dont think we have enough room for a gravity fed filter. So I'm going to do a simple 55gal drum diy filter as much as I would absolutely love to do the bog filter. Looks amazing but the new property is too small...

New question is, the water pump I have available has high gph (not sure how much yet but probably around 3500 gph. Will this ruin the filter I want to do? Can i reduce the flow rate somehow? I am thinking I'll divide the flow - one to the filter and one straight back into the pond.

I've drawn up a tough idea of what I want to do. Not sure about exact size of the pond just yet, I'm waiting for someone to check the land for underground pipes and whatnot before I set it in stone.

 

[enrgizerbunny]

If you're going to the trouble of installing a bottom drain, I would put in a solids settling tank, it will keep lots of things out of your filter. Just elevate the pump in the settling tank and pump to the filter from there. The settling tank will have a water line level with the top of the pond though, so keep that in mind.

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[Rianyu]

I was fighting with that idea yeah. My main concern is that I haven't seen anything on CLEANING the settling tank. Since it's underground, how do people drain it of the muck?

 

[Fresh2o]

I was fighting with that idea yeah. My main concern is that I haven't seen anything on CLEANING the settling tank. Since it's underground, how do people drain it of the muck?

If you can install a bottom drain with valve and plumbing, then that would be one way to go. It would take quite a bit of planning to make sure the design will not leak, require more digging, and the discharge needs to be lower than the settling tank.
Another option is to simply drop a utility pump with a screened, bottom intake. For instance, the type for draining pool covers.


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[enrgizerbunny]

I was fighting with that idea yeah. My main concern is that I haven't seen anything on CLEANING the settling tank. Since it's underground, how do people drain it of the muck?

You could always end the pipe in the tank with a thread adapter so that you can put a cap on it for cleaning the tank. Screw on cap, pump the extra water out with your pond pump (careful not to run it dry) and use a shop vac to suck out the rest. Then remove cap, let the tank refill and turn the pump back on. Past that you'd want something along the lines of a python system that you could vac the tank with.

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[enrgizerbunny]

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/showthread.php?t=333271

^ this is the thread that I cataloged my pond build. It sill isn't quite finished, but I though it might be helpful. You want to be at least ten feet from the base of trees, and I covered all the roots with tar patch to make sure they don't cause problems. A track-hoe rental would be worth every penny in hindsight.

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[Rianyu]

Thank you everyone for the support and patience!

Unfortunately it turns out i won't be able to start this project. Makes me sad to think I can't keep the koi, but we'll be finding a good home for them through the original breeder.

Thanks again for all the patience and useful advice - the first chance I get I will definitely have a crack at it!

 

[enrgizerbunny]

Sorry to hear that. If it's not too personal, what's the main obstacle to your pond? Cost? Digging up the yard? Canadian winter?

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[Arthur75]

I have a pond 8 x 12 m. 0.9 m deep. Rubber sheet.
20 years old. The rubber has hardened under the sun. At the edge are breakthroughs. Voles have eaten holes.
I'll need to replace the rubber in the spring. 400 €.
I thought an alternative to clay bricks, unfired. But that is expensive and requires a lot of work.
Rubber is the cheapest. Holds back 20 years.
Perhaps also repair the holes with tape body.? From the car shop.

 

[Fresh2o]

I have a pond 8 x 12 m. 0.9 m deep. Rubber sheet.
20 years old. The rubber has hardened under the sun. At the edge are breakthroughs. Voles have eaten holes.
I'll need to replace the rubber in the spring. 400 €.
I thought an alternative to clay bricks, unfired. But that is expensive and requires a lot of work.
Rubber is the cheapest. Holds back 20 years.
Perhaps also repair the holes with tape body.? From the car shop.

UV can do some damage. It's recommend to covered the exposed surfaces with stone, wood, or other material if possible.
I've heard of rubber repair kits. It has patches and a bonding material. No experience with it though.


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