Sump build...completely overwhelmed

[Skifflexie]

I'm wanting to build a sump for 65g tank. The cabinet below the tank is 34in long, 18 in tall, and 15 in wide. I plan on using a 20g long, but I can't find any skimmers that are short enough.

Also I bought an overflow box, but as far as the type of plumbing I should use, and the pump type and size I need, I'm completely lost.

I've watched a ton of videos on sump builds, but I'm still confused. I'm scared to mess it up and have water issues.

Please help!


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[Fresh2o]

This skimmer might be undersized but it should fit the space.
What kind of fittings are on the overflow? I'm assuming it is an HOB style. Do you have pics? If the fitting is a barb type then you can use appropriately sized clear vinyl tubing to connect the overflow to the sump. The last overflow I had used 1.25" ID tubing.
The overflow should have specs on how much water it can handle. You can use that as a rough guide for selecting a return pump. Of course, you will have to factor in head loss with the return pump.
Hope this helps.


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[Skifflexie]

Hey, how's it going?

I believe it's a 300gph overflow. The distance from the bottom of the sump to the top of the tank is about 55in. The only 90 would be the one that goes over the edge of the tank. I would like to use a flexible hose of some type, so I don't have to actually plumb anything lol.


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[cgthebeast]

Flexible hosing is great for a drain but you will want hard pipe the return, easier and less just if things busting off from that pressure. I use a 20g long for a sumo under my 75 and also use a reef octopus 110 in it with no problems, the sweet woo is about 9 inches of water. I even piped it to a liter Coke bottle so it drains automatically

 

[Fresh2o]

Hey you!
The bottom fitting is a threaded 1" bulkhead fitting. What you are looking for is a female 1" threaded fitting. Preferably a coupler with the female threaded fitting on one side and a 1"-1.5" Barb fitting on the other side. Or a coupler with a female threaded fitting on one side and a slip fitting on the other side. The slip will allow you to connect it to a short length of PVC and then to a slip x barb coupler. The vinyl tubing will then connect to the barbed fitting. Obviously the female threaded x barbed coupler would be the least complicated. You should be able to find these fittings at any hardware store.
How the vinyl tubing terminates and empties into the sump is up to you. Some folks prefer to route it directly into one or more filter socks.
I will let the salties help with pump selection. The last one I used was a powerhead rated at 275 gph and it provided decent flow for a FW planted setup.


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[Skifflexie]

Thanks, here's a link to the pump and return that I'm thinking about buying. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/checkout/cart/
Now I just need to find a skimmer that is 16in or shorter, which is seemly difficult


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[melosu58]

Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sumps, Part I by Greg Taylor - Reefkeeping.com


This is a three part link with good info about sumps.

 

[Fresh2o]

This should work for connecting the overflow to the sump. Here is a 1" female threaded + barbed coupler:

Same coupler with 1 1/4" ID vinyl tubing (1 5/8 OD):

The undersized nano skimmer in post #2 measured under 14" tall.
Do you have a design for the sump?


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[Skifflexie]

Thanks! Those photos really help!

The skimmer you linked me to is nice, but the only issue is that it is rated for tanks <50g. Mine is 65g. It's still probably way better than the Hob remora I have currently, that isn't pulling anything.

I saw a company named Tunze, they sell a skimmer that I think could work, but it's too expensive.
I've never heard of the company, and the particular skimmer I found is way overkill for my tank size, I believe it does about 260 gallons... http://m.marinedepot.com/products/tz5340/tunze-master-doc-protein-skimmer

The other skimmer I've seen is one made by innovative marine, I think it's called the ghost. It's a different type of skimmer and I haven't found any reviews on it.


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[Sniperhank]

I'd say you need to do some more research on skimmers. Tunze is a pretty popular company of aquarium products.
When it comes to skimmers, they aren't cheap for sure. But with that said, the size of tank you have has a wide variety of them available. Look through marinedepot, like you were doing, and even bulkreefsupply. They will have many options for you from brands like reef octopus and eshopps.

 

[Skifflexie]

I'd say you need to do some more research on skimmers. Tunze is a pretty popular company of aquarium products.
When it comes to skimmers, they aren't cheap for sure. But with that said, the size of tank you have has a wide variety of them available. Look through marinedepot, like you were doing, and even bulkreefsupply. They will have many options for you from brands like reef octopus and eshopps.

There are many options for 65g tanks. The issue I have is finding one that is short enough, my total cabinet height is 18in, and the tank will probably tank a little of that, then I'll
have to be able to remove the collection cup, so I'm guessing I need a skimmer that is <15/16 in


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[peterj]

Instead of settling for what fit. Why not build or buy a different stand. Maybe a little taller. The pick the skimmer you want. In my opinion the skimmer is the heart of a good reef tank. I wouldn't settle for one because that's the one that fit. Or save a little longer for the tunze.

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[Skifflexie]

Instead of settling for what fit. Why not build or buy a different stand. Maybe a little taller. The pick the skimmer you want. In my opinion the skimmer is the heart of a good reef tank. I wouldn't settle for one because that's the one that fit. Or save a little longer for the tunze.

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We just bought this tank and stand combo in November, and I live the stand. I also can't afford to just buy or build a new stand. I have to make things work.


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[Skifflexie]

Here's what I have so far:
300 GPH overflow box
20 gallon long tank

I have old 10g tanks I plan on taking apart and using the glass for baffles (I priced acrylic last night, and it's a little too expensive)

I have found 3 skimmers that will work, I was wondering if anyone would be willing to look at them and let me know if which would be the best option???


Also I have a found a pump that I think will work. I've attached the link too.

Lastly now I'm starting to design the actual sump, I have to account for the space needed for the skimmer/pump I choose.

Here's what I've drawn so far (please excuse the fact it's not to scale or pretty, I didn't have a ruler.)

I'm not sure where I should put the baffles, or at what height?
I know I want a refugium and possibly build a DIY algae scrubber too.
I also know that my tank will drain about 3 gallons (2.6) in the event of a power outage.

Here are the links:
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/auqa-gadget-skimmate-fullsize-ghost-skimmer-innovative-marine.html

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/tunze-comline-doc-skimmer-9004.html

http://www.aquacave.com/tunze-maste...e=1&fep=2102&gclid=CPu5zsKevssCFQ8yaQodXO8HzQ

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/quiet-one-pro-series-2200-594-gph-lifegard.html


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[peterj]

You have to pick what skimmer you want and see the depth of water it needs to operate. Most skimmers need a certain water level to operate. Then you will know what dimension the first compartment of your sump should be. Then set the first baffel height. Trying to put a fuge and algea scrubber in the same sump with your space will probably not work. Your probably better off with just an algea scrubber. You should have plenty of room. I have on in my sump. Cost maybe 100 bucks all together.

This in the return area of my sump. This takes up about 15 inches. But works great.

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[Sniperhank]

I'm not familiar with those skimmers, but I do know tunze products are quality.
As for a five and ats, why have two things that do the same job? I agree with what was said above though. I love the ats that I made. It was cheap and much more effective at nutrient export than my fige was. I made mine out of an outdoor brochure holder, with the importance being on a way to disconnect the PVC for easy maintenance without having to remove the entire unit.


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[DisneyMatt]

I really appreciate this thread. I am going through the same thing building a sump system right now. So it's nice to see the feedback that others have provide you, because a lot of it pertains to me as well!!

We just bought this tank and stand combo in November, and I live the stand. I also can't afford to just buy or build a new stand. I have to make things work.

If I were you I would HIGHLY consider building a stand. You can build a stand for a lot less than you can buy a new stand, and then you can make sure you have the space for the things you need. We just had to make the decision to build a new stand for our 60 gallon reef tank. Yes, it might be a little more money than what you want to spend right now, but in the end it will make your life easier! Plus you might always be able to sell your current stand to help cover the cost of building the new stand! (Just something to think about!)

 

[Skifflexie]

Well after searching and searching for a skimmer to fit my stand compartment, I officially have up, decided to just build my sump and look into buying a HOB skimmer. So if anyone has suggestions for a good HOB skimmer for 65+ gallons, please let me know.

We have glued in the baffles in the sump, started to glue the return nozzle, and dry fit the other parts. We should be glueing the rest today.



Here's the simple design we followed (I found this outline online, I cannot take credit for the illustration) We did make a few modifications however, but I'm not sure how to sketch them on a design software, so later I'll upload my hand sketches later.



We modified the baffle gap between the bubble trap, 1inch between the first two, and 2 inch between the second gap- so I could add filter media (white sponge, and 1 1/2 in bio balls)

We also added a second bubble trap before the return pump. We just added an extra baffle forcing the water to go "over" then "under" before reaching the pump.

Lastly, we modified the spacing of the compartments.
My pump has a small foot print: 6.11" L x 4.02" W x 4.33" H, so our return compartment is 12 X 5.

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/quiet-one-pro-series-2200-594-gph-lifegard.html


Since I'm not using an in-sump skimmer, I made my refugium larger, which now can hold my heater (~15 in long) the refugium is 17 inches long.

And the input compartment is a little under 5 inches long.

I'm not sure what to add into the first compartment, if anything. So if you have any suggestions (with cheap/ affordable options)?

I calculated that anywhere from 2-4 gallons would drain from my tank in a power outage. My baffles are 8in tall, leaving me about 5.5 (max fill point, before flooding). I plan on doing simulations to check, once everything is set up. We now live in the country and every time we get a large storm we lose power for an hour up to 3+ hours... (Once to twice a month) and currently I don't have a budget for a back up power source.

My boyfriend also found a check valve at Menards for me, but it has a spring. It seems to take a decent pressure to keep the valve open, so I'm not sure how much it will affect my pressure from my pump, and if I will be able to use it...

I would like to take every precaution I can, to avoid flooding. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

**Also, after a power outage, will the vacuum be lost from my "candy cane" overflow? Would my display tank then overflow? How can I prevent that?

My plumbing is 1 inch PVC, I had a friend help me pick out the parts. I have 90's for the return, and 45's for the input (does that sound correct)?









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[Fresh2o]

Finally! Wonder where you went.
Can't comment too much on the sump, but glad you went DIY for it. Design looks good. Not sure what to put in the first chamber either.
Will you be using filter socks?
The candy cane siphon in the overflow should be fine in a power outage as long as there is enough liquid in both chambers (internal box and external box). I ran that type of overflow for years with no incident, though it did make me nervous at times. There are newer overflow designs that incorporate a tubeless siphon and some type of pump to remove air and restore the siphon should it break.
IMO if you drill 1-2 holes in the return piping on the tank side just above the waterline, that should be enough to break the siphon of the pump is off (to prevent back siphoning through the return). When drilling the holes (they don't need to be big) I drill in a direction in such that the small jet of water that exits points downward to the tank. This might serve as alternative to a check valve.
Is 1" the size of the return piping only or both the return and drain piping? For some reason I believe the drain needs to be larger. There are calculators for pipe sizes and flow rates or someone can chime in on this point.
I think the 45 degree bends might offer less resistance when compared to 90 degree bends. "Long sweep" 90 degree elbows may offer even less resistance but I don't think they are available in smaller than 2" tubing.
Glad to see progress with this build!


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[Skifflexie]

Finally! Wonder where you went.
Can't comment too much on the sump, but glad you went DIY for it. Design looks good. Not sure what to put in the first chamber either.
Will you be using filter socks?
The candy cane siphon in the overflow should be fine in a power outage as long as there is enough liquid in both chambers (internal box and external box). I ran that type of overflow for years with no incident, though it did make me nervous at times. There are newer overflow designs that incorporate a tubeless siphon and some type of pump to remove air and restore the siphon should it break.
IMO if you drill 1-2 holes in the return piping on the tank side just above the waterline, that should be enough to break the siphon of the pump is off (to prevent back siphoning through the return). When drilling the holes (they don't need to be big) I drill in a direction in such that the small jet of water that exits points downward to the tank. This might serve as alternative to a check valve.
Is 1" the size of the return piping only or both the return and drain piping? For some reason I believe the drain needs to be larger. There are calculators for pipe sizes and flow rates or someone can chime in on this point.
I think the 45 degree bends might offer less resistance when compared to 90 degree bends. "Long sweep" 90 degree elbows may offer even less resistance but I don't think they are available in smaller than 2" tubing.
Glad to see progress with this build!


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Thanks, good to be back. I didn't go with filter socks because I hated messing with them on the system we had at Petsmart, when I worked there. They were always clogged and sometimes would back up. I'm going to put white sponge in between the first baffle to collect any debris, I also have a sponge on my over flow box.
I'm thinking about putting rock rubble in the first little compartment before the bubble trap.

I was under the impression that I could use the same diameter PVC for the return and intake.... The filter I'm getting has the ability to adjust the flow. And we are using 90's on the pump and 45's on the intake, to hopefully equalize the flow rates. I have a feeling I'm going to have to fine tune it once we get all the parts and everything is together.

Here's my tank today, I've just done a massive water change, and adjusted the rock work, so it's pretty cloudy.


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