SW noob on a budget....

[willowthepoet]

I am a completely noob to saltwater. I've never had a SW tank, and frankly I don't even know where to start. I've had FW for a couple years now, but I just aquired a new tank and want to do something a little more challenging.

I have a 20 gallon tank and a new aquaclear 30 (rated for 10-30 gallons), but the filter can be returned/exchanged.

I'd planned on discus because I was supposed to get a 46 gal tank from a friend who was moving, but the tank was broken in the move so now I just have the 20 gal from my boyfriend whose fish I returned to the LFS because he didn't take care of them... and then I took his tank. haha.

Since I'd had a discus budget of about $250 and can no longer have discus in this small of a tank, I thought I'd try SW if at all possible.

Enough rambling... what do I need?

I'd like seahorses, but I understand they're extremely difficult to keep... so what kinds of fish can I have in that size tank? Is it possible to get any kind of starfish?

What substrates are best? Is live rock absolutely necessary? Can I use FW decorations? What kinds of decorations can I use?

(Sorry if these are common-sense questions, I just want to be sure and not mess anything up)

I also know there's a lot of talk about buying saltwater. Is it really that hard to make your own? If I do decide to make my own saltwater, can I use tap water (well water) or should I buy distilled at the grocery store?

Anything else I should know? Any good places to start my information search?

 

[melosu58]

Read the articles that are located up top of this page. Education is the key. The smarter the better for you and your tank. Seahorses are not as hard as you think. Y ou just wont be able to put fish in with them as they will eat up their food and cause them to starve. Ask questions we are here to help.

 

[ntswift]

Just be sure this is something you want to get into because it can be very addicting and it can cost money. I started with a 29 gal on a budget of about what you're on, but that alone was only enough for a skimmer and couple powerheads. Melosu58 is right though, look under the section that says articles at the top of the page. Just read through them and whatever you dont understand or if you aren't finding what you need then these guys are great for answering questions! Live rock is not a necessity but it does help out A LOT! Yes, you can use FW decorations in your tank. No, its not that hard to make your own saltwater. All you need is a 5 gal bucket, a powerhead and a heater. (and of course salt and water) I would recommend getting a RO/DI unit to save yourself a lot of headache down the line. This hobby takes a lot of patience, so just pace yourself and read, read read! Good luck and welcome to the addiction! HTH

 

[seaham358]

IMO 250 is not going to get you very far with a SW tank. Cutting corners in the hobby only cost you more money in the long run. And Seahorses are not for beginners.. I know experienced reefers that have them and they can be tricky to keep.
Right now I suggest you read, read and read some more and save some more money.
Most tap water is no good and will cause nieusance algaes, distilled water is fine.. No spring water.
LR IMO is a must for any tank, its the best natural filtration you can get. Decorations are not normally used in SW tank.

read up and keep asking questions..

 

[willowthepoet]

I'm trying to read, but that's the problem... I don't know where to start. I've read all the articles that are posted in the article thread, but I haven't yet found a comprehensive list of what I'd need to start.

I've done FW, so I know about cycling... but other than that, I'm fairly lost. I can't go out and buy books because, like I said, I'm on a budget.

The cycling will take a couple weeks... so I can save up some more money during that time for fish and other necessities... but what should I get to start? (I want minimum cost... but not stuff that I'll have to go replace.)

What substrate is best? Sand? Crushed coral? Gravel?

How much living rock should I get? Would it be better to get some LR and some... uhh... non-living rock?

I'd like to get started and get cycling within the next couple weeks, during which time i can read some more... I'm in college and my semester is over in 2 weeks so I have the whole summer to learn about SW before I have to go back to learning about other things (haha) so I'd like to be able to start the cycling sometime relatively soon.

Is there any ONE book that you'd consider the best for a starter? I don't want to spend too much money on books that'll give me information i could find for free online, but I like to have one all-inclusive book around.

I'll be back with more questions... trust me.

 

[tecwzrd]

I haven't yet found a comprehensive list of what I'd need to start.

You must have missed the sticky:

”Stock list and tips for maintaining your SW tank”

That post should answer all the basic questions. If only buying one book I’d get The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert M. Fenner

 

[jasno999]

Let me try to help give some insight. Here is a basic list of what you will need and soem round about costs.

Optional (But reccomended)
Live Rock - 1.5lbs per gallon (This will help with filtration and you will definitly benifit from this) Cost is $4 per pound and up - but remember shipping is a big expense if you can't get it locally.

Needed:

You will need normal filtration like a HOB (needed more if you don't use live rock) - $25-$75

With fish you need a Protine Skimmer - $100 and up. Get a good one and pay the extra money it will be worth it. Proabbly wil lcost you $150 or more.

Sand - Live sand is best but normal playsand works too and is a lot cheaper.

Lighting- normal lightning is fine if you do fish only but if you ever want to do corals you would need good lights that would cost you 100-300 dollars. Keep that in mind.

Livestock - most SW fish are not cheap.

Test kits for Nitrate/nitrite/Ammonia/phospjhate/PH - $100 or more

A RO or RO/DI system if you don't want to use store purchased water every other week to do PWC. Units cost $100 and up.

Salt mix - Costs varies on size and brand but it is anotehr expense.



Ok enough rambeling. Basically what I am telling you is that with even a 20 gallon tank you are looking at a grand total start up cost of:

$450-700 for hardware (Live rock/filters/sand/RO system/Test kits)
$?? for live stock

Could end up being $1000 easy. Funny thing is that from doign a 10 gallon reef tank I have figured out that it costs me a lot of money to set it up and keep it running. But if I had gone with a much larger tank say 70 to 90 gallons it would have only cost me about 3K to 4K instead of almost 1K after all was said and done.

 

[Serpentman]

I hate to scare you but I just starting everything back up. I told myself, "How bad can it be?", I have most of the stuff so I leaped in head first. I think I have dropped $1000 in the last 2 weeks and haven't added one living thing yet. With that being said, I have decided on a reef setup so lighting ran almost half of that.

In my limited experience, if you are considering a larger tank in the near distant future, either buy equipment that may border on slight overkill for your 20gal or upgrade the tank now. Over the long run, buying everything twice will make things get really expensive.

Let me say this, an understanding spouse (if you have one) is critical. There have been more than a few stern looks.

 

[tecwzrd]

The lr, lighting, & skimmer are going to be the biggest upfront costs. I have a budget setup for my aquarium of $200 a month which my wife is fine with

 

[Serpentman]

I have a budget setup for my aquarium of $200 a month which my wife is fine with

I have a similar one for that and my reptile collection. Unfortunately, with the costs of the initial setup, I blew the budget out of the water! :?

 

[willowthepoet]

yeah, i guess i did miss that sticky. sorry. *feels stupid*

well, i've done a little reading on what to get and so far from what i've read and what was mentioned here, i think i can stay on my budget to at least get it up and running.

live rock ($150 or less since LFS knows me and gives me discount)
filter (already have - $0)
light ($0 - not doing reef and have flourescent light already)
sand ($10? $20?)
protein skimmer (will get once cycle is complete and fish are ready to be added)
fish (they come a lot later)
test kit (i could swear i've seen master liquid reagent kits for like $50)
salt mix ($30)
water (will buy from grocery store $3 for 5 gallons of distilled)

i'm used to doing things the cheap way, and breaking costs up into smaller pieces... but if i'm totally off-base with this estimate of $300 or less just to get it full and cycling, please tell me so i can set it up and just do some easy FW stuff for my mother...

 

[ryguy]

I'm gonna end up looking like the bad guy probably, but I think SW tanks and budgets go together like oil and vinegar.

My advice would be to spend ALOT of time researching and buying great products when you save enough money to do so. I don't recommend deciding to do a SW tank and starting the cycle 2 weeks later. That spells disaster IMO. Take your time and read everything you can get your mitts on.

wait til you have more money to jump in. that will be gone in a flash and you'll be left needing more.

 

[jasno999]

I agree. YOu are not goign to get away with doing it for $300. Trust me.

THe skimmer itself is goign to run you $150-200 and you will need it in order to ever have fish in the tank.

 

[Brenden]

Well I will be the bad guy with ryguy. $300 will not cut it. What type skimmer are you looking at? What about water circulation?

 

[vsnsofadrgn]

im on a budget and i have something to add.... as long as you RESEARCH and i do mean research and check out the costs of things online, and know exactly what you are after, then it is possible. after the intial cost of setup, (research, then cycle, as cycling save for other equipment, such as test kit (this 1st), refractometer, skimmer, etc... you have over 2 months to do so) the maintence is the biggest key. partial water changes are like car insurance for your tank and if you purchase an ro/di unit, it REALLY keeps costs down... i can tell you from experience that a quality skimmer, ro/di, and live rock are your best friends.... those are the things that cost the most. buying "the pretty stuff" comes last, but by then youll have everything and can enjoy the tank!

 

[ntswift]

Just a quick question for you. Are you going to be staying with the 20 or have you decided to upgrade? The reason why i ask is because you said that you are projecting $150 for lr. I know you said OR less, but you might want to check out online because they have some awesome deals that could drop your costs a lot. Check ebay out. They have some for about $3.00lb and less. Just letting you know!

 

[tecwzrd]

Being an accountant IME a budget is good for any application. I’ve spent over $2K on my 55 gal. My monthly budget is aside from the “upfront” costs which were easily $1500 just to start with the cost of base/lr, skimmer, and PC lighting. Once you get that out of the way having a monthly budget helps with buying any additional equipment or fish/inverts without having to explain to the spouse why you “need” to spend $50 for two or three Salifert tests, $50 for one coral or fish, ect…

Of course my spouse has a budget as well so she doesn’t have to explain why she “needs” another $500 purse to add to the 8+ she already has. Those without spouses can spend till you break the bank

Starting with $300-$500 is doable IMO for a FOWLR tank but as Brenden said you will need a couple of ph to aerate the water for good oxygen exchange.

Best advice is to not skimp on the skimmer. Research skimmers carefully and ask before buying for recommendations. I would buy a skimmer that is rated for a larger tank in case you want to upgrade in the future.

 

[Serpentman]

I agree with tecwzrd. Although, its been a while since I worked with SW, I am no stranger to expensive hobbies. I set budget only implies a plan and can vary based on your particular economics. However, it is wise to set aside a realistic amount each month whether your tank needs it or not. Therefore, when you need to upgrade, etc, you will have the money. Otherwise, it is too stressful having to scrounge $$ for every little thing which quickly will sap the fun from the hobby. Plus, you will be forced to cut corners when it counts and could lose valuable livestock.

 

[willowthepoet]

thanks for the replies guys.... i've been researching a little bit for a couple months, and once i get out of school, i'll be obsessive about it... and i'll have at least a month to keep researching while the tank's cycling.

i don't plan on upgrading, at least not for some time. i have somewhat limited space as i'm still in college and living with my parents so i have to keep all my aquatic stuff in one room (as well as my chinchilla cage, chameleon cage, rat cages and the other necessities of living) i put the estimates high, at $5/pound for 30 pounds... it'll probably only cost me $100 for the LR.

sorry if it was unclear... i don't expect to get away with only spending $300 on the tank total. lol. no, not even close. i know that. but i think i CAN get it running and cycling on that much. while it's cycling i'll get a skimmer and save up for fish.

speaking of fish.... any suggestions? (please don't say clowns...)

and i do have a pet budget. i need one with all the stuff i have to take care of... and if need be, once it's cycled i can keep dosing ammonia to maintain the cycle if i don't have all the equipment i need... or i can do what i usually do and drain the savings account a little more. money isn't THAT huge of an issue, but i'm not willing to drop $1000 upfront. (over time it's unavoidable, but not right at the beginning)

 

[TeenReefer]

You can get away with that type of budget if you are just looking to keep fish. Ive had my 29 gallon SW aquarium for 3 years now with the basic powerfilter, florescent lamp (20 watts), powerhead, and heater, and all my fish have lived healthy happy lives. I originally had coral gravel as my substrate and dead base rock inplace of live rock. Since then ive gradually upgraded to live sand, some live rock, and 130 watt lighting due to my budget (student). Dont get bummed out if everyone tells you that you HAVE to set this up a certian expensive way if your just looking to create an aquarium that will make you happy with a few fish, not a huge tank full of corals with a large bio mass. Those guys do know what they are talking about and have helped me out a lot along the way and still do. They just need to take it into consideration that we are into this hobby for our pleasure, not to have a big expensive aquarium we cant afford! lol!