Tetra safestart

[pobdave]

Anybody actually used this product and had positive results?

Last week I set up a Hagen tropiquarium 88 using this stuff and have had weird parameter readings.I have transferred some fish to the tank (guppies and zebra) and as a backup i'm running an additional filter with media from one of my other established tanks.

On day 2 I noticed a very slight bacteria bloom which subsided after a few hours then I conducted a full water test.Day 2 readings were Ammonia 4ppm nitrite 5ppm and also a high nitrate reading.No fish were displaying unsual behavior.

Day 3 readings exactly the same with a slightly lower nitrate reading.

Day 5 readings exactly same as day 3's.

Today's readings were Ammonia 3-4ppm ,Nitrite 4ppm with trate at 20ppm,no unusual behavior from any of the stock which now also includes peppered corries which duly laid eggs everywhere!

I have done a control test with normal tapwater with safestart added and concluded that safestart and tapwater alone do not/or in my case did not produce positive readings.

Has anybody else had similar or different experiences with Tetra safestart?

 

[Devilishturtles]

Hey pobdave. Welcome to AA!

I read about that SafeStart stuff when it came out over the summer. The general consensus I believe, was that it was pretty worthless. Much like the "Cycle" product that is sold today. A marketing gimmick really. I browsed a few other forums, and everyone has had the same result.

My reccomendation, would be to start doing some water changes to get your ammonia down. Do you know about the nitrogen cycle and the importance of cycling your fish tank? When you change the water, do not touch the gravel or filter. Just change the water. The bacteria that you want to colonize (that the bottle claims it has!) are actually living on the surfaces of things, like your gravel, filter cartridge, etc. Your cycle will be finished when the ammonia peaks and goes to 0, nitrite peaks and goes to 0, and you have detectable nitrates.

HTH

 

[Pleco]

BioSpira works.

May want to see if any of your LFS carries it. It comes refrigerated and needs to be kept cool.

http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/ml_biospira.asp

-Pleco

 

[pobdave]

Thanks for the replies,

I am familiar with the nitro cycle which is one of the reasons Im finding my results confusing-I cannot account for the nitrate readings so soon.I have conducted a control test of my tapwater which contains neg nitrates.

I would have also thought that with readings reaching as high as they have done there would be noticable change in the fishes behavior and health.

Not one of the fish are displaying anything untoward-no rapid gill movement,gasping...nothing exept their normal behavior.The second I spot a problem I can have them back in their old tank straight away.

Just to add-

A 25% water change lowers my then immeidiate readings of nitrite to 0.5ppm yet ammonia remains the same.

This product has the most vague instructions with it!-Nothing to state whether it affects readings or not.

Any ideas?

 

[coldmachineUK]

PFK ran an article last month I think about SafeStart and concluded it didn't work in the slightest. The author noted that levels were the same as those of a usual cycle where fish are present (he stocked with tetra I think, and not many, but levels still rose to unacceptable params even with the product).

I used it to supplement a fishless cycle in a 36G cichlid tank I set up over the summer. Whilst the tank had already cycled I had removed the prawns too early b/c the LFS didn't get my order through and never called to let me know so I expected fish to be in there before they actually were! I used the safestart over the couple of days gap, but tbh I can't say if it had any effect b/c things were already cycled and I noticed no spike in levels once fish were introduced.

I'd say stick with biospira if you can get it, and if you're in the UK like me and can't then fishless is the way to go.

 

[pobdave]

Yeah im Uk-Plymouth,

No Joy on Biospira-I asked for that initially and got this!

I trust my LFS geezer by the way-he is not the sort who would sell a ''finding nemo'' fish to a set of gushing parents and a toddler at christmas.He has tried obtaining an answer from Tetra on this matter but as yet to no avail.I can only work on past experiences of others and hope my experiences help those too.

So far no deaths-all seems well.It would appear so far to be doing what it says on the tin although the readings do not back that up.

 

[Devilishturtles]

Just a thought here, but maybe the SafeStart detoxifies the ammnoia, similar to another product that does the same thing that I cannot think of this morning. (Its too early for my brain to work 100%). Hope someone else can interject, but if not ill look into that later on this afternoon.

It won't affect your reading, but is maybe why the fish aren't having issues with it.

 

[coldmachineUK]

I think it's ammolock you're thinking about devilish: it converts ammonia into ammonium which is harmless (I *think*: someone definitely correct me if I got this wrong! lol).

The safestart does say it reduces harmful levels by 40x so I wonder if that's what they mean, yep. A test kit like API FW Master kit shouldnt pick up ammonium though if it's a two bottle test, I thought?

 

[hc8719]

BioSpira works.

does it, is it proven?

everyone who posted on my thread in FOWLR (see here: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=89876) thinks im a retard for attempting to use bio-spira or TLC, and they all tell me how im rushing, DT can verify)

so i dont get it, bio spira seems to be hailed in the fw forums, and looked down on in the sw forums

 

[coldmachineUK]

BioSpira works.

does it, is it proven?

everyone who posted on my thread in FOWLR (see here: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=89876) thinks im a retard for attempting to use bio-spira or TLC, and they all tell me how im rushing, DT can verify)

so i dont get it, bio spira seems to be hailed in the fw forums, and looked down on in the sw forums

I've read that the bacteria which maintain the nitrogen cycle in FW environments are different to those in SW environments (from keeping brackish puffer tanks: this is where I picked that up). I never looked in to it thoroughly, but it might explain why BioSpira is less/not effective in SW.
Just a guess though

 

[Devilishturtles]

hc, check your thread in the sw section, I explained my reasoning. And nobody called you a retard. There are different circumstances in sw tanks that need to be accounted for.

coldmachine, there are differnt Bio-Spira products for sw and fw, and yes, two different bacteria.

 

[Devilishturtles]

Oh, coldmachine. Thanks for the product, you are right.

After nosing around the net about Safestart, I think it's only distributed so far in the UK and that results are hit or miss. Some people don't haev problems and some do.

pobdave, hows the fish doing today? Keep up on those water changes, probably atleast every other day.

 

[pobdave]

Fish are all still fine,I conducted another 10% change today making that the second one today and I also added a small amount of aquarium salt to counter possible nitrite levels.

I honestly think (and hope) its just a case of false readings!

The tank is also well planted and now has cory fry emerging from the substrate from the eggs I didnt manage to retrieve.

I'm thinking about conducting the 10-15% changes twice daily for another few days then running some charcoal in another filter and see what my readings are after that.Any thoughts on that?

Im hessitant to return the fish to their previous tank now as it has only been running on an under gravel with my ACFs for the past week and I removed the additional filter to supplement the biolife one in my Hagen 88.I suspect the levels may have already re adjusted and returning them would start another mini cycle.

My other tank is a Dwarf puffer species tank so that rules that option out!

 

[pobdave]

Params today were as follows

Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0.25ppm
Nitrates 10ppm
Temp 26C

Did not conduct a pwc today and have been on restricted feeding for two days now.Lighting timed from 0700-2100.

Im toying with a bizarre idea of during my next pwc-keeping the water removed and running a charcoal filter in the bucket for a few hours and seeing what the results are after that.Im still unsure as to whether the safestart is giving false readings or not.

Not one fish has displayed any sign of distress the past week.

this product could actually be doing what it is advertised to do???

 

[coldmachineUK]

Well by now the ammonia reading you have is what I'd expect during a normal cycle. Your nitrite reading seems to be dropping now: this is faster than usual (it normally takes upward of 2-4 weeks on average depending on stock levels in a fish-cycle). I noticed this using a fishless cycle though (the whole tank cycled on two prawns in only 11 days).
Keep your eye on the nitrites and nitrates: the Ites should drop and the Ates should start rising as you know: if they don't then that could be the product having an effect but I never noticed 'false' readings when I used it as a top-up to my fishless cycle.

Fish wouldn't display signs of distress this soon with nitrite levels: ammonia has a quick effect, whilst nitrite poisoning takes a little longer to manifest (reddened gills, laboured breathing, red streaks in the fish and so on -> if you see any of these signs you need to do some emergency pwcs).

HTH, and I'm keeping an eye on the topic b/c I'd love to see how your experiment goes.

 

[pobdave]

Bad start this morning-partially my fault due to not re-switching on secondary filter after last water change last night.

Amm-0ppm
Nitrites-0.25ppm
Trate-5-10ppm

Lights just switched on and one of my female preg guppies is hovering just above the gravel with reddend gills-all other fish seem fine.Have just done a 3 bucket (15%) water change and added more aquarium salt.

I cannot trust the readings I am getting after using safestart.

I was speaking to the guy in my lfs and he is keen to know my results also.

Im going to err on the safe side now and do 10% water changes every few hours (if work allows).

I cannot move my fish back to their previous tank now as the bioload would upset the UGF.

I hope people planning to use this product heed this-I think I have made a grave error-either by not switching on the secondary filter or by trusting the product.

 

[Devilishturtles]

Check the female after the lights are on for a few hours. My fish are always lazy looking in the mornings when the lights come on.

Hoping the fish pull through. Don't feel badly, or like you made a mistake. You didn't know. It is interesting though, your experience with it, so ill be watching this thread too.

 

[danch]

FWIW, the Prime product I've been using as a dechlorinator also (claims to) 'detoxify' ammonia. The label says that ammonia will still test positive after use of that product. Perhaps safestart does something similar?

 

[7Enigma]

Prime does indeed detoxify ammonia and nitrIte along with removing chlorine. I believe it is available as well in the UK. I would definately purchase a bottle.

I don't see it mentioned (nor asked) but are you using test strips? Your readings make absolutely no sense at all and my first thought is you are using test strips which are inaccurate.

If you put an established filter (what size filter?) on the new tank and don't have a large bioload (what is the size tank and how many fish are we talking about?), you should not see much ammonia or nitrIte. Your numbers above 3 are very unlikely as well (without seeing signs of stress/damage).

I'll also assume that your tank is quite large (>29gallons), since you are doing virtually insignificant PWC's. If you are in any concern of testing being inaccurate due to the product you used, or faulty test kit, you should be doing MINIMUM 50% PWC's. If this is a 10 or 20gallon tank you should do 2 50% PWC's back to back.

Please post back with some info.

 

[pobdave]

Im using Aquarium pharmaceuticals master test kit.
My tank is 130L (29 uk gallons).

14 fish in the tank.

At kights on this morning the fish seemed ''lazy'' but no visible adverse behavior.

With the amount of changes I have been conducting daily I reckon it amounts to 70% per 24hrs.

Im bang out of de-chlorifier now so cannot do another change until after work.