They’re moving!

[Autumnsky]

Good to hear you share your story. Shicked that you got to witness it, but not shocked at the same time as I have seen aggressive behavior.

So sorry to hear about the Cherry shrimp losses. Glad you got the nain killer out too. Yeah it's natural for them to be part of the food chain. But that crosses the line when it's in our shrimp sanctuary. We are here to carefully manipulate the natural ways to make it better and safer for the little tank "stars".

 

[libertybelle]

I’m still not certain I’m not having a water quality issue of some kind. I lost another cherry today (no indication of any other inhabitant to blame). Honestly if I hadn’t watched it myself it never would have occurred to me to blame the ghosts anyway for the rapid fire deaths a few days ago.)

I’ve tested over and over and parameters are always 0/0/<5. Tons of babies and berried shrimp but just a (what I think is) higher than normal death rate amongst the young adults. I’m going to cut back on feeding in case I’m overfeeding and it’s causing ‘lower than detectable with the api kit’ ammonia issues that could be effecting the weaker shrimp.

I did add some new shrimp to the colony a few weeks ago so it could be that while they did fine through acclimation they are having a bit of trouble adjusting to the new parameters.

 

[Autumnsky]

Temp?

My theory is some kind of illness. When it seemed in my tanks nothing was wrong. Same issue, losing a shrimp routinely.

Dosing any ferts?

CO2?

Substrate?

Sorry to ask, I can't go back to look right now.

 

[libertybelle]

Oh no problem. I haven’t seen any signs of illness. (Growths or discoloration etc) Most of the time the deceased shrimp look like they had difficulty molting which is why I added mineral pearls and some variety to their diet including ‘shrimp fit.’

No ferts or co2. I don’t dose the tank with anything but prime. Substrate is inert black sand. Not even any fert tabs, I just use low maintenance plants that don’t care!

Temp 74/75F
Ph 7.2-7.4 (I have trouble guessing with the color chart but it seems stable and matches my tap water ph so I don’t usually age water.)
KH:40ppm
GH:180
(GH and KH are from test strips. I tossed my liquid kits for these parameters and haven’t replaced them)

Let me know if you have any ideas. For lack of any better ideas I’m just gunna cut back on feeding and water changes. I think I had been doing too many and since nitrate is always low perhaps It’s unnecessary and was stressing them out. (I was doing small ones (les than 10%) every few days when I cleaned up leftover food.)

I am nervous to cut back too much on feeding because there are 6 Pygmy cories in the tank and obviously they can’t eat biofilm so every few days I was putting in a little extra bug bites/ or sinking pellet for them then vaccing out any extra after an hour.or two.

I have a hunch this may be my problem but I’m not sure I can fix that while keeping the pygmies fed. they’re teeny tiny and super shy so they don’t go after the food very aggressively. I’ve seen one yield a bit of bug bites to a shrimplet!

 

[libertybelle]

As mentioned in another thread, another water change, another loss. One the adult who looked injured from the other thread but also one more that was very young maybe a quarter of full size.

When I do water changes I run the water for a couple minutes then put cold water in a bucket with prime and heat and aerate while siphoning the tank then add it back into the tank via a quick drip via airline tubing. I usually leave the filter on while cleaning and removing water because I’m not taking out that much.

Ph of the tap matches tank water. No measurable copper in the tap.

As you can see I’ve tried to remove the obvious sources of stress from water changes but it still seems like they’re having trouble. The only thing that I can see changing in the parameters is the nitrate which is 0 in tap and maybe 5 in the tank. Very strange.

 

[libertybelle]

Interestingly side note, my amanos/ghosts and bamboo shrimp are not dying off and neither are my new zebra Babaulti’s.

Whenever I find one it’s always a cherry.

 

[Autumnsky]

Is the black substrate black diamond sand blasting sand? Others have had issues with that. And as converstion with a sand blasting supply salesman saidbthey can rinse tje coal slag with something and could be a little bothersome to shrimp. And though your other shrimp are less line bred, maybe les sensitive. Just a possible thought.

And maybe try not doing any water changes.

Do you happen to have a water softener on the house?

 

[libertybelle]

Nah, it’s plain black aquarium sand from petsmart. Their brand I think.

No water softeners on the house.

It is interesting I thought the zebra Babaulti would be more sensitive being a caridina species but so far I’ve lost one pretty early after they arrived and they’ve all been fine since. Meanwhile Once or twice a week another dead cherry.

That’s really the only thing I can think of to do; cut back on changes but all my previous fish tank experience tells me that’s a bad idea!

I mean I guess I could vac occasionally and then let the gunk settle and add that water back in? Like I said I have to occasionally make a bit of a mess so the cories get some. But I mean... I have to change the water eventually don’t I? If you’re trying to minimize water changes for the sake of stability how do you decide when you really need to do them!?

 

[libertybelle]

I do have chloramines in my tap which prime breaks down into ammonia but per their literature it’s detoxified. Is it possible shrimp are still sensitive to the detoxified form?

Seems a bit of a stretch to me

 

[libertybelle]

I think I’m still going to try to stretch out the time between water changes but I’m going to test that theory. Next time I do a water change I’ll toss some of my bio media into an extra internal filter and let it run for a bit before adding to the tank; see if that makes a difference

 

[Autumnsky]

Funny you mention the detoxification with the dechlorinator - just watched this last night.

Temp?

Maybe just cut back the water changes like you said, worth a try?

It is really frustrating when the shrimp just drop dead.

edit: meant also to say per the video, maybe add an air stone.

 

[libertybelle]

Interesting video. I kinda hate air stones honestly but I do often do water changes late at night because that’s when the baby goes to sleep and I’ve finished decompressing a bit. My tanks are planted and I have my lights scheduled to be on late.

But that means often the lights are going out pretty soon after I finish up which with so many plants in the tank could cause oxygen problems.

Maybe I’ll try to get myself moving a little earlier in the evening so lights are still on for a couple hours after water change.

I still think it’s a bit of a stretch because I do such small water changes. I have trouble believing a 10% water change could have such a large effect on oxygenation. Especially since both the tank and the bucket are aerated during the process (the tank from lowered water level and lots of splashing and the bucket from the pump.)

The water is temp marched when added and the tank runs at 74.

 

[Autumnsky]

It sounds like your tasks are all pretty normal type practices.

 

[libertybelle]

Another cherry bites the dust. No water change to blame this time and lost it during the day when oxygen should be fine with all the plants in there. Other species of shrimp I still haven’t lost one since the first few days I had them.

As usual gunna go do all the water tests to be sure but at this point I’m pretty much out of ideas.

Good thing I like the zebras, at this rate it’s gunna be an accidental caridina tank within a few months! (Ok not really; they’re still outbreeding my losses)

Almost all of the ones I’m losing are adults. I had lost a few small ones but that if you recall I discovered was a predatory ghost shrimp taking them out. Before and after that guy was in the tank it’s always the adults I lose. Which is making me wonder if they were the original shipped shrimp and just are more sensitive due to the earlier stress of shipping / acclimating to my parameters.

On the plus side look who is still hanging in there. I thought I’d lost her but I didn’t really look that close to confirm... there she is. Flared carapace cherry still ruling the roost.

 

[libertybelle]

Ok so I just noticed one of my ghost shrimp go white lose use of its legs then die. (Not quickly; Over about a day) at first I thought it was preparing to molt or had just molted but if that’s true the molt did not go well.

Perhaps there is some kind of infection in my tank?

It could just be chance; ghost shrimp aren’t the hardiest lot I know, and none of the cherry shrimp have ever demonstrated the leg paralysis I just saw. But given my other losses it seems worth considering in case they’re connected.

I’m already feeding shrimp fit but is there anything else I can do if I think they’re might be an illness but can’t be sure what?

Edit: Parnas update
Ammonia / Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: <5
PH : 6.6 (driftwood seems to have dropped it some since it was added. Tap is running 6.8 these days so still very close)
KH ~56 ppm
GH ~ 120 ppm
No copper or phosphates either for what it’s worth.

 

[Autumnsky]

Any dots on the shrimp?

 

[Autumnsky]

 

[libertybelle]

There are no obvious growths or spots that I can see. I even check the undersides when I pull them out to check for.... that fungus like parasite that I can’t remember the name of at the moment.

The ghost shrimp losing leg mobility and going white is the first time I’ve seen any physical signs of illness.

I do have Paraguard that I bought when I thought I had ick once and turned out it was just a nipped fin. I’m half tempted to treat just in case at this point which is something I don’t normally do.

 

[libertybelle]

Just saw it again. And this time managed to snap a picture. I moved this guy into a bamboo vase though I kinda doubt he’ll survive the night. If you see that front leg which is oddly bent and opaque; the shrimp can’t seem to move it. In the picture there seems to be a dark spot but I’m pretty sure that’s just his stomach. I fed a dark colored algae shrimp lollie yesterday!

As mentioned I never saw anything like this in the cherries but seeing this is making me wonder if there IS some kind of infection in the tank contributing to a slow attrition.

I’ve never needed meds for shrimp, in fact I’ve never even used meds in my fish only tanks because I guess I’ve been lucky and clean water has always done the trick but now I’m trying to decide if I should be treating for bacteria even if I don’t know exactly what is going on in there?

 

[Autumnsky]

Hmmm. The bacterial infection I am aware of causes black spots on the body. Obviously there are more I am not familiar with.

One other thread I read mentioned low O2 in the tank can cause freezing in place and death.

The other one said just don't do pwc Just refill with RO water. This doesn't seem like working long term, as plants would need more nutrients. You would have to test periodically.

'What ferts / additives are you using?

Substrate is inert, and you said you checked for copper.

Maybe other heavy metals?

You can check with the local water supplier and they need to provide a yearly analysis / report.

Others report similar issues in water changing, in dripping pwc and in just regular water change.