To sump or not?

[pelphrey]

I just setup a 75 gallon mbuna tank. I have a fluval 306 canister currently on the tank and a DIY filter in the tank to help out. I do have a 30 gallon sump made already for another tank I have that is not setup. I've been reading about the eshopps pf-800 and the eshopps pf-1000 HOB overflows and read great things. Wanted suggestions if I should do the HOB overflow and sump or buy a fx5 or fx6 instead? Thanks!

 

[CoronaBlue]

Thought I read somewhere sumps were more beneficial for salt and didn't do as well as a normal HOB or canister for freshwater. As for your tank I'd probably add another canister that you listed or a HoB. I have a 55gal Mbuna with an AQ 70, Penquin 300 and a fluval 306 running. Also have 2 circulators running.

 

[dalto]

In most freshwater scenarios it is not that beneficial to do a wet/dry sump. You get lots of bio filtration that way but with some trade offs.

If I had a tank that was drilled already I would probably do a sump but using one of those hob sump setups seems fairly pointless in a freshwater setup.

 

[severum mama]

I've used hang on overflows once and will never do it again. They were not Eshopps brand, they were CPR, but still... the experience was terrible and I will never again run a sump in a tank that isn't drilled.

I'd just go with a larger canister, or a second smaller canister, personally.

 

[seove]

I made them for the fun of it. I'm also filtering x times more water with my DIY filter than I would with a HOB

 

[Tacit Blues]

For many years I used a pre-drilled saltwater tank as a freshwater, and the sump filter worked great. The only thing I would warn you about is that there are a lot of freshwater fish who are much smaller than most saltwater fish, which means that with most overflows they can (and will!) go over the edge. I always especially had problems with danios, since they're small top dwellers. With your cichlids, though you shouldn't have as much of a problem, I wouldn't think.

 

[seove]

For many years I used a pre-drilled saltwater tank as a freshwater, and the sump filter worked great. The only thing I would warn you about is that there are a lot of freshwater fish who are much smaller than most saltwater fish, which means that with most overflows they can (and will!) go over the edge. I always especially had problems with danios, since they're small top dwellers. With your cichlids, though you shouldn't have as much of a problem, I wouldn't think.

That's a good point about the overflow. I used to have large fish and never had that problem. I currently have danios and several have gotten caught. I also have Dwarf Puffers and they are a headache to fish out. Sometimes, fish that get caught in the overflow over night end up dying of exhausting the next day. I need to find a different type of barrier than what I now have.

 

[Fresh2o]

That's a good point about the overflow. I used to have large fish and never had that problem. I currently have danios and several have gotten caught. I also have Dwarf Puffers and they are a headache to fish out. Sometimes, fish that get caught in the overflow over night end up dying of exhausting the next day. I need to find a different type of barrier than what I now have.

I used to run a wet/dry with HOB overflow in a FW 55 years ago. To prevent fish from getting into the overflow, I placed a 1" strip of gutter guard black plastic mesh around the overflow's "teeth". I did a serpentine pattern through the teeth. It worked well for small fish.


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[seove]

I used to run a wet/dry with HOB overflow in a FW 55 years ago. To prevent fish from getting into the overflow, I placed a 1" strip of gutter guard black plastic mesh around the overflow's "teeth". I did a serpentine pattern through the teeth. It worked well for small fish.


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Thanks. I need to try that today.

 

[BiagioArt]

I just converted feom cannisters to a sump. Best decision I've made. I have a 72g bow and had two natgeo 80 gal filters (made by eheim) attached. The filters were clogged every 4 days. Switched to a 30 gal sump with my own made overflow out of pvc and the water quality is the best I have ever seen. Water movement is great and now I'm able to remove the airstones because the wet/dry trickle aerates enough. Plus, I now have 30 more gallons that helps stabilize the water much better for longer periods of time.


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[seove]

I just converted feom cannisters to a sump. Best decision I've made. I have a 72g bow and had two natgeo 80 gal filters (made by eheim) attached. The filters were clogged every 4 days. Switched to a 30 gal sump with my own made overflow out of pvc and the water quality is the best I have ever seen. Water movement is great and now I'm able to remove the airstones because the wet/dry trickle aerates enough. Plus, I now have 30 more gallons that helps stabilize the water much better for longer periods of time.


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With all of the extra aeration from the trickle are you able to grow plants? It's a struggle for me. I'm managing but it's slow going (without CO2).

 

[BiagioArt]

I don't have too many plants in there. Mostly hornwort that floats and it seems to be doing great.


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[Fresh2o]

Back in the early 90s I had a pretty heavily planted 55g with a sump and pressurized CO2 and it did fine. CO2 was injected in the sump area prior to pumping it back to the DT. I'm sure that there was quite a bit of CO2 loss in the wet dry section and overflow.


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[seove]

I used to run a wet/dry with HOB overflow in a FW 55 years ago. To prevent fish from getting into the overflow, I placed a 1" strip of gutter guard black plastic mesh around the overflow's "teeth". I did a serpentine pattern through the teeth. It worked well for small fish.


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Thanks again for the idea. I was using a piece of pot scrubby kind of fed through the teeth from top to bottom but after reading what you said about "serpentining" gutter guard I just fed through (like you suggested) , a piece a pot scrubby and it's working fine. It will do till I can get out to Home Depot.

 

[Fresh2o]

Thanks again for the idea. I was using a piece of pot scrubby kind of fed through the teeth from top to bottom but after reading what you said about "serpentining" gutter guard I just fed through (like you suggested) , a piece a pot scrubby and it's working fine. It will do till I can get out to Home Depot.

Cool. I tried window screen but it was too flimsy.
I think the gutter guard is sold in rolls of 25'-50' so you will have plenty to spare. The only thing that you might consider (I did not at the time) is if UV inhibitors are "baked in" the plastic since is is for outdoor use. Not sure if that is something to be concerned with.


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[Tacit Blues]

Or maybe try a bit of cut up plastic canvas (in the embroidery section of craft stores). You can get a sheet of it for like a dollar and then you don't have a huge roll of leftovers.

 

[Fresh2o]

Or maybe try a bit of cut up plastic canvas (in the embroidery section of craft stores). You can get a sheet of it for like a dollar and then you don't have a huge roll of leftovers.

I was thinking the same thing. As long as it is flexible to work between the teeth of the overflow.


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[Mebbid]

Unless your filter isn't able to keep the ammonia or nitrite at 0ppm then you won't see a benefit to adding another filter to your tank. You might as well add a powerhead

 

[pelphrey]

What are your opinions on the eshopps pf-800 overflow (maximum flow rate of 800gph) using the RIO 17HF return pump ( 840 gph at 4 foot). I don't want to create a wave pool but I want to get the max turn over rate. I also don't want to put a ball valve on the return line. And if I've been reading correctly the more flow you have the better the siphon will be in the overflow box?

I've been looking at the gutter guard and would for sure put that on the overflow box. These mbuna are small now so I don't want to have to worry about that.

Thanks for all the input so far!

 

[Luananeko]

As someone who's currently using two Eshopps overflows on a tank running dual sumps, I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that HOB overflows are far more pain than they're worth. You have to keep your return pump at pretty high flow to keep bubbles from forming in the U tube of the HOB or else you break your siphon and have a flood, and the Eshopps don't come ready made with connectors to hook up plumbing to them, so you have to do some surgery with silicone to put them together. Sumps are completely worthwhile in freshwater when done right, but the HOB overflows are royal pains.

The points about smaller fish getting into the overflow is a very important consideration as well. No matter what I did, I kept finding shrimp, snails, and danios finding some way to get into the overflow box. I think the danio actually managed to jump over BOTH the front HOB box and U tube and into the backside of the HOB box, as there's no way it could have gotten through all the sponges I jammed into the box to block things other than water from entering the U tube. The shrimp and snails are just super tiny and hard to block without blocking so much water flow that you get bubbles in the U tube.

I'm actually in the process of planning how to swap back to a single sump because my two identical HOB overflows aren't draining at the same rates so I'm having floods in the top sump