ummm what?

[Judge92]

So I'd like to recap everything that's happened in the past couple of weeks but I honestly cant remember it all. Too much has happened.

With taking a few fish back who I thought attacked others and other fish dying I am now left with

1 Molly
1 Guppy
9 Neon Tetras
4 Bronze cories
1 Clown Pleco

I still have two mollies except today I walked into my house to see the female silver molly with one of my guppies half in its mouth with her shaking it around. He died moments later. So I'm going to give her to the store. That's what brought me down to 1 molly and 1 guppy. I don't know why this happened since mollies are supposed to be one of the most docile fish but whatever.

Now I did a gigantic water change and gravel vac yesterday since my ammonia was still at 0.6 after a large spike(2.4). It was theorized the spike came from me changing a filter cartridge which i learned that you don't actually have to change it (just rinse).

I tested the water today and I'm getting a reading of 0/0/0.....(PH is at 7.5)

Seriously?! What on earth happens now? And before anyone starts saying "Well you obviously weren't cycled", don't. Because it was cycled before adding any fish. Why would everything be 0? What happened?

 

[bluerose]

Define "gigantic water change"... if it was something like 75+%, you may have removed enough nitrates that your test kit can't accurately read what's left. No problem.

However, you really shouldn't have an ammonia spike like that in a cycled tank. I'd be checking levels daily to be sure, since you did change the filter cartridge. You may have a mini-cycle (which is not a big deal, just probably means a few extra water changes).

 

[Judge92]

Right, I was told about a "mini cycle" and thought that's what was happening. I did probably about 60-70%. Before the change there wasn't any nitrates to begin with so would that mean that the ammonia is just barely readable and so its still in the mini cycle?

 

[bluerose]

I would be concerned about your cycle if you didn't have any nitrates and you had that kind of an ammonia spike. Test daily and be prepared for water changes-- I suspect something went awry and your cycle failed. A cycled tank by definition has no ammonia or nitrites and some nitrates because it's converting ammonia to nitrate-- so...

 

[Judge92]

Yea, and that's what it was like. For weeks.

Then all **** broke loose and everything got crazy. There was an ammonia spike and apparently no nitrates. And recently I got 0.6 ammonia and 0/0 nitrites/nitrates.

I've been testing daily and trying to get the ammonia down but I don't know if that's what I'm supposed to do if it's in a mini cycle. Like there has to be SOME ammonia to get to nitrates.

I just don't understand what's going on....

For weeks it was 0/0/5. Like it was perfect. PH was 7.0 And now its gone up and I have 0 everything? Like it doesn't make any sense

 

[JohnPaul]

If the tank was cycled and now it's not cycled, then the only explanation is that something killed the filter bacteria.

Any chance you did a water change and forgot to add dechlorinator to the water before putting it into your tank? Did you have sick fish and administer any sort of medication? Add a whole bunch of salt all at once?

 

[Judge92]

I haven't used any sort of medication or put in any salt. Like I said earlier I did change filter cartridges so I assume all the good bacteria was gone.

 

[Judge92]

So does anyone know whats SUPPOSED to happen next? Or what I need to do to fix it?

 

[mattrox]

Several options.

Get some mature filter media from somewhere to use in your filters.

Use a product like "safe start" which is supposed to help the cycle.

Daily or twice daily pwcs to keep ammonia/nitrates in check until the cycle is done.

Or all 3 at once.... the best option?

 

[JohnPaul]

I haven't used any sort of medication or put in any salt. Like I said earlier I did change filter cartridges so I assume all the good bacteria was gone.

Never change filter cartridges.
Never.
NEVER.

This is why filters that rely on all-in-one cartridges are horrible and should be banned entirely from the aquarium trade. Honestly I believe that. All they do is cause heartache and disasters.

So basically you are back to square 1, and need to re-cycle the tank. If you can get some "filter gunk" from an established aquarium (or your local pet store, ask an employee for a bag of it) that will go a long way towards getting the cycle restarted. Otherwise, it's just a matter of doing almost daily PWC's for the next 6-8 weeks until the filter is recycled.

And for your info in the future, when you rinse the cartridges, you rinse them in used tank water--NOT with tap water. Because if you have chlorine in your tap water and rinse in tap water, you will kill all your good bacteria. So either use used tank water, or else first put some tap water in a bucket, add dechlorinator, and only then use it to rinse your cartridges.

The other thing you might consider is getting a legit HOB filter, like an AquaClear. They use multiple inserts so that even if you need to replace one of them, you don't lose ALL of your filter bacteria. Since you're basically trying to start your cycle from scratch, now would be the perfect time to get rid of your old filter and instead buy an AquaClear of the proper size for whatever tank size you have.

 

[Judge92]

Yea, I found out not to change the cartridge although I had done it before and didn't have a problem. Also, yes I do know to not use tap water(thank you for the confirmation though ) although we have a water softener so there is no chlorine in our tap water lol. I'd still use tank water though.

What exactly would I get from the pet store? And what do I do with it/then what?

Edit: I was suggested an AC50 for my 29g

 

[Judge92]

I bought an AC50 today. I also got some water from the store. I filled the filter up with it and added it to the tank. This should add some bacteria to the tank. I'll be keeping an eye on the parameters everyday.

 

[bluerose]

Don't hold your breath. Bacteria aren't in the water column, really.

Also, watch for diseases... you may have inadvertently added something to your tank you didn't want to...

 

[Judge92]

The water was from a planted tank. No fish. The person from the store said something similar happened to her and she did the same thing and it got fixed. And if I didn't see anything happening anytime soon to come back and get some more.

I also thoroughly asked her about it having any negative effects and she said she took it from a specific tank so that nothing bad could happen.

Edit: so you're saying that the bacteria that breaks up ammonia in the water isn't actually in the water? Sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

[HN1]

Edit: so you're saying that the bacteria that breaks up ammonia in the water isn't actually in the water? Sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense at all.

The bacteria colonize the substrate, decor, and primarily the filter media. For the most part, they are not waterbourne.

 

[libbyb]

The bacteria colonize the substrate, decor, and primarily the filter media. For the most part, they are not waterbourne.

bluerose, johnpaul, mattox, hn1:
Is it because the water molecules don't have enough surface area on which the bacteria can live?

 

[XimeD]

A bacterium is waaaaaay larger than a water molecule. A water molecule is roughly a couple of angstroms (one angstrom is 1x10 to the -10 meters) whereas bacteria are in the micrometer range roughly from 2 to 40 micrometers ( one micrometer is 1x10 to the -6 meters)

So, there are 4 orders of magnitude difference between a water molecule and a bacterium, the bacterium is 10,000 times bigger than the water molecule. What could happen is water molecules can surround (solvate) the bacterial cell but the overwhelming majority of the bacteria we care about for the nitrogen cycle attach themselves to surfaces. This is why most filter media is some kind of porous material, this greatly increases the surface area that bacteria live in.

Also, if most of the nitrifying bacteria lived in the water column, why would we bother with biological filtration at all? all we would need would be a bigger tank since more water = more bacteria.

The guy at my local petco keeps insisting that bacteria live in the water too, so I thought of all these things to convince myself that he was wrong.

 

[libbyb]

A bacterium is waaaaaay larger than a water molecule. A water molecule is roughly a couple of angstroms (one angstrom is 1x10 to the -10 meters) whereas bacteria are in the micrometer range roughly from 2 to 40 micrometers ( one micrometer is 1x10 to the -6 meters)

So, there are 4 orders of magnitude difference between a water molecule and a bacterium, the bacterium is 10,000 times bigger than the water molecule. What could happen is water molecules can surround (solvate) the bacterial cell but the overwhelming majority of the bacteria we care about for the nitrogen cycle attach themselves to surfaces. This is why most filter media is some kind of porous material, this greatly increases the surface area that bacteria live in.

Also, if most of the nitrifying bacteria lived in the water column, why would we bother with biological filtration at all? all we would need would be a bigger tank since more water = more bacteria.

The guy at my local petco keeps insisting that bacteria live in the water too, so I thought of all these things to convince myself that he was wrong.

Thank you for explaining that!

 

[Vircomore]

The key thing to understand when dealing with bacteria in an aquarium is the difference between "Autotrophic" and "Heterotrophic" bacteria.

Heterotrophic- This type of bacteria is agile, but very fragile. Heterotrophic bacteria are capable of consuming nutrients, and reproducing while in suspension (whether in water, air, etc.). The concept of an "Airborne disease" refers to Heterotrophs. The downside is that these bacteria cannot thrive without a rich supply of resources, and can die quickly.

Autotrophic- This type of bacteria is slower but much stronger. The downside is that it cannot consume food or reproduce without being latched onto a surface. These are the types of bacteria that handle the Aquarium Cycle, and this is why disposing of a filter cartridge can get rid of a LOT of the bacteria.

 

[libbyb]

So we don't want heterotrophic bacteria? How do we know if it's in there and how do we get rid of it (if we don't want it)?