Unusual stargrass deficiency, help!

[7Enigma]

Hi folks,

Came home today and was looking at my stargrass and noticed that on a good portion of the older more established leaves I'm getting a scoring across the leaves near the tips. It looks like I took a scapel and very lightly damaged the last inch or so of the long mature leaves (or if I took and folded like an accordian the ends, comon these analogies are tough! ).

My CO2 is high, my nitrAtes are high (EDIT: see last post), my phosphates are high, I dose a LOT of potassium, and I dose 0.2ppm iron (CSM+B) every other day.

I have hard water (GH=10), and my lighting is 65w CF 50/50.

I've got some thread/hair algae now on this particular stargrass plant, and am kind of stumped as to what would be causing it (it seems to be originating around these damaged areas so I assume the leaves are leaking nutrients that the algae is growing on).

If anyone has heard of this type of deficiency (or toxicity?), please let me know.

Thanks.

 

[Plantbrain]

Blackened tips are classic CO2 deficiency.
I know that is getting old, but it is that.
Otherwise this plant is a weed if you have KNO3/traces etc

Java fern also will do this to lesser degree for the same reason, often other plant species are less suspecptible and don't express the growth deficiency this way.


Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[7Enigma]

I'm absolutely 100% positive this is not CO2 related. I've got 2 2L bottles pumping CO2 through a PH and am well over 30ppm.

pH is 6.0-6.4 (much closer to 6.0), KH is between 5 and 6 (blue at 4 drops, greenish in color at 5 drops, yellow at 6).

So worst case scenario I've got 60ppm and best case scenario (well actually pretty bad too ), is 180ppm. I'm hoping the CO2 production will start to die off a bit since this is a bit too high for my liking.

I see no adverse fish breathing, nor stress from them, though with the introduction of the PH, they are now crowding in a corner together in a current.

My only thought is that I do turn off the PH at night (15-30min after lights out), and on 10-15min before the lights come on. I can't imagine the CO2 would diffuse out very rapidly since my HOB is always pretty quiet (high water level=less splashing). Can I be getting a CO2 deficiency at night that would cause the leaves to become damaged?

I'm going to go and test my values again for other nutrients. But in the meantime if anyone else can think of what could be causing this I'd greatly appreciate it!

UPDATE:

phosphate is dead on 5ppm by the AP test (all tests are AP liquid reagent btw)

GH turned from yellow to green on the 9th drop.

Culprit possibly found I just checked my nitrAtes 2 days ago, I ALWAYS have excess unless I've just done a large PWC or filter cleaning. Yesterday I was too tired to test phosphate and nitrAtes so I put a little bit of KNO3 (probably 5ppm if that), and some KPO4 (probably 1-2ppm max). Seems the extra CO2 is making the nitrAtes get used up much faster than before (I thought I had pretty good CO2 production before as well). After 5 minutes my AP nitrAte test is showing about 5ppm nitrAte, and I've heard these are notorious inaccurate that low. I just dosed 20ppm and will have to keep an eye on this one in the future. About time I get to use that pound of potassium nitrAte from Greg!

So is it possible that the nitrAte deficiency caused the stargrass leaves to do this? If so I'll make a mental note of this one for future posters with similar deficiency symptoms......

 

[fish_4_all]

You will only know if it goes away. I saw it with my java fern, blackened ends and it went away when I moved them to lower light no CO2 tank, they grow really slow but are really green again.

As for CO2, it seems I have the same problem. I have deficiencies that always revert back to CO2 as the answer and I average 40+ppm, guess I will make the powerhead diffuser you talked about and shoot for about 75ppm.

Let us know how it comes out, I have plants that would like to know.

 

[Steve Hampton]

Just want to point out that you want to be careful what you wish for...LOL! Stargrass when healthy and growing is very high maintenance. I love the plant but finally gave it up as it grows too fast. Shading can cause the problems you have too. You should probably check you pH right before lights come on to see what your CO2 levels are at that time. Fluctuating CO2 levels like what you get with DIY yeast injection can cause black/red algae problems.

 

[7Enigma]

Just want to point out that you want to be careful what you wish for...LOL! Stargrass when healthy and growing is very high maintenance. I love the plant but finally gave it up as it grows too fast. Shading can cause the problems you have too. You should probably check you pH right before lights come on to see what your CO2 levels are at that time. Fluctuating CO2 levels like what you get with DIY yeast injection can cause black/red algae problems.

Steve, It definately does grow quite quickly but IMO not as fast as wisteria which was a REAL pain. In my situation shading is not a problem. The leaves that are most effected have no leaves directly above them. I have my tank now setup similar to a pressurized setup. 15minutes before the lights come on my PH turns on. Before this time large CO2 bubbles leave through the air line and so very little dissolves in the water. When the PH kicks on, however, the small bubbles are chopped up into very tiny bubbles that quickly lowers the pH and gets my CO2 stable. At night my PH runs ~15minutes after lights out, and then shuts off. This will keep the pH from dropping further as its already very low (high CO2). I do have a siesta period from 10:30am to 1:15pm where the same thing happens (15min before lights on, 15min before lights off. Basically its almost like having a rudimentary pH controller.


fish_4_all, will do.

 

[Plantbrain]

I grew this plants for several years under a wide range of conditions as I had previously thought there might be an alleopathic chemical that casued the blackening.
I was wrong about that but had to check to make sure.

During that time, it would grow fast also, but still had blackened tips.
I also used DIY CO2 for that then.

I noted that when I was real good about the CO2, I had much better growth, less blackening.

The dosing routine was normal and the same though.
I went back and forth for a few months and arrive at the CO2 again and again and again.

Many people say they are 100% certain about their CO2.
I'm not certain even with the expertise I have and the test kits and methods I come up with.

If you say this, you are setting yourself up for failure and poor assumptions.
I never say this about CO2. I learn this the hard way myself.

I got burned by CO2 and still do eveny now and then, everyone does.
If you haven't yet, just wait, you will have your own turn.

But these days I know what it looks like and how each plant species is affected, I also have to take my own advice and know to check it again and again to make certain everything else is in good shape and then I start working on the CO2.

This is especially true with DIY CO2.
I did that method on some tanks at home with high light for 10 years.

A water changes, dosing there after, and 2=3x more that week with another water change etc, all that's really left is CO2.

Then you change and vary that.
That's hard to do with DIY, we all know that.

With a gas tank, it's very easy.

Regards,
Tom Barr
Regards,
Tom Barr

 

[Devilishturtles]

Just noticed this thread and wanted to add that I had the same deficiency in my stargrass before I added CO2. After I added CO2, it dissapeared and now the leaves are awesome looking and very very green!

 

[7Enigma]

Prior to my new CO2 diffusion method I would have possibly agreed that this could be a CO2 related issue. But as mentioned I always have over 50ppm CO2 during lighted periods. The problem could have been due to my nitrAte issue, or some other nutrient deficiency I cannot measure.