UPDATED API Test Results for 10 AND 60 Gallon...

[Laser]

Since fish originate from an environment that has virtually no detectable ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate, the best way we can simulate that environment for them is with the water changes. We have some basic guidelines we can follow for doing so. For an already cycled tank when the nitrAte levels exceed 40 ppm a 50% water change will bring the level back down. In a tank undergoing a cycling process, when the ammonia or nitrItes reach 0.25 a 50% water change will bring them back to an acceptable level of approximately 0.125.

I think it is OK to gravel vac as JLK said. Don't worry if you don't get it all. Goldfish also will scavenge off of the bottom.

After reading JLK's last post I agree with her on the water change for today.

As was said, we are just offering advice. I know there is conflicting advice out there on the internet, but if you follow the advice of people here you will be successful. JLK helped me out when my cycle stalled on my first tank. Now, I have 6 tanks and two batches of fry and I don't even know where the next tank is going to go.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Well, people, I'm at a complete and utter loss...I don't know whether or not I should do a water change on the 60-gallon right now or not, and as far as the 10 goes, I suppose only regular testing is going to dictate whether or not the nitrite is coming down, or if the tank needs immediate attention...

 

[jetajockey]

The issue you are having I think has to do with the .25 recommendation. If you want to get technical about it you can take your pH and temp and match it against a chart to see at what point ammonia reaches a toxic level. If the pH is over 8 though I'd go by the .25 recommendation.

Personally I wouldn't do a PWC on the 60 right now, it often takes a long time for a large volume of water with a few small fish in it to get to a toxic level. This is one of the principles I use when doing fish-in cycles so I don't have to constantly be doing water changes to keep the fish safe.

Ammonia doesn't have to be built up to a certain level in order to cycle the tank. The fish are constantly producing it so as long as there's a source in there (i.e. fish) then the nitrifying bacteria will have something to eat.

 

[smomus]

Well, people, I'm at a complete and utter loss...I don't know whether or not I should do a water change on the 60-gallon right now or not, and as far as the 10 goes, I suppose only regular testing is going to dictate whether or not the nitrite is coming down, or if the tank needs immediate attention...

Artesia, you remind me of my son! When he is told what to do he has to know and understand the logistics of everything involved! Lol!
I want to give you an analogy for this..
Think about a soda. My favorite is mountain dew, how about you? There are a couple choices here. Lets take a fountain soda first. You go into a store and get a large 64oz cup. Through out the day you drink from this cup and because it's out and open, the carbonation is released into the air. Over time the soda is flat and not very tasty, unless something more is added.
Now take a bottle of soda. Bottles last longer because they are sealed. But over time they lose their flavor and become less carbonated too.
The fountain drink is like cycling. If everything isn't just right, it's nasty (harmful) to the fish. Have you ever gotten a fountain drink when it was straight carbonation? While not harmful to us initially, over time that could be. So, In order for it to be tasty again, there needs to be a supplement (water change). Now even though we are adding water here it doesn't mean we have gotten rid of the old gross tasting soda completely, just added to it.
Now the bottle is like a tank that is cycled. Even though the bottle (cycled filter) keeps the soda more fresh, it still loses the good stuff over time, but not as quick.
I know this is kind of a rudimentary analogy, but it's how I thought of it when I was cycling. I know I would want that good, fresh soda over the old, stale one. Fish do to!
Do as was recommended and change out 50% of your water, simply just to give the fish fresh yummy water! No other reason at this point. Monitor your ammonia levels and at any time they are above .25 change at least 25%. The more the better though so the fish can have fresh yummy water! Once a week do the regular 50% water change that you would do normally. This may be as part of your cycling changes or not. But once a week give your fish fresh, yummy water! And lots of it!
During cycling when ammonia/nitrites get high, your fish are harmed. You may not see out at first but they are. Kind of like drinking straight carbonation. Its hurting your insides. You may not see out at first, but it's happening!
Anyway I hope this helped you understand a little better..?

 

[shellieca]

Well, people, I'm at a complete and utter loss...I don't know whether or not I should do a water change on the 60-gallon right now or not, and as far as the 10 goes, I suppose only regular testing is going to dictate whether or not the nitrite is coming down, or if the tank needs immediate attention...

I'm sorry you're feeling such frustration & confusion. Please don't take this as a negative, I think you are over analyzing & over thinking. Put simply, water changes, frequent water changes while cycling are your tanks & fish best friend. 50% water changes will not hurt the cycling process & will only help to keep your tank & fish healthy. I test my water daily & I average a 50% water change about every couple of days, sometimes more often. I want my ammonia to stay as low as I can possibly keep it, the same with the nitrIte & nitrAte. My philosophy, when in doubt do a WATER CHANGE!

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Alright, well thanks everyone -- in the interim of my last post and now, I just went ahead and did a fairly partial water change on the 60-gallon because the water appeared just slightly hazy; I removed and replaced about 20-30% I'd say, maybe a bit more. I changed the water on the 10-gallon as well, again, and removed and replaced around 50 or so percent. Both tanks got some gravel vacuuming as well, to displace some buried waste and debris...

I haven't taken API readings yet, but I figured I'd let the tanks settle and then check back in at some point; all four fish appear to be doing fine, though, based on apparent external behavior (two in the 10 and two in the 60 now) and both tanks have been given fresh, cold tap water with Prime treatment before the water went in...

The proverbial schedule here is what concerns and confuses me, essentially -- I don't mean to come across as anyone's "young son" or as some kind of amateur numbskull here, and I apologize for ruffling everyone's feathers. I have kept fish in the past, but when I was a young boy and they were warmer water tropicals; I'm married with my own two-story house now, so it's been quite a while, and now we're keeping goldfish which we basically keep at room temperature in terms of tank temp (they get cold water as replacement water or top off). Now, going forward, I suppose I will continue to monitor the levels of both tanks and respond as necessary, but let me break this down into steps to see if I'm on the right track here...

1. I can/should continue taking API Master Freshwater tests on both tanks, especially during this cycle period, but does this need to be every day, especially on the 60?

2. Should I just do a 50% change on the 60 each week no matter what the test results come back as...or should I always let the API results dictate what needs to be done?

3. I have some kind of mild slime deposit on the inner surfaces of the 60-gallon's glass, primarily in front...I wiped this sludge off when I removed water during the change, when the glass was exposed with no water, but more remains below the water change line. Does this need to be removed with the algae magnet we have, or should I leave this alone?

4. JUST SO WE'RE CLEAR -- NO harm will be done to the cycle process or the fish if I change water (specifically in the non-toxic 60-gallon; the 10-gallon's readings are another story) at least ONCE A WEEK while the tank is going through the cycle? 50% a week is okay if levels remain at 0.25ppm for now when I test ammonia?

That's all I can think of for now; this whole debacle has been giving me migraines! Thank you, everyone who has assisted thus far; I will report back in reply to anyone's comments, or to post test results if I get around to doing them today.

 

[smomus]

The proverbial schedule here is what concerns and confuses me, essentially -- I don't mean to come across as anyone's "young son" or as some kind of amateur numbskull here, and I apologize for ruffling everyone's feathers. I have kept fish in the past, but when I was a young boy and they were warmer water tropicals; I'm married with my own two-story house now, so it's been quite a while, and now we're keeping goldfish which we basically keep at room temperature in terms of tank temp (they get cold water as replacement water or top off)....

I did not mean to offend you by saying you remind me of my son. In ways, he is years past his actual age. He is 14 going on 25 lol. He is very quizzical and needs to know the ins and outs of everything. He needs to understand every last detail. Much like you. not a bad thing by any means.

 

[Laser]

1. Yes, you should test everyday while cycling with fish for their safety. I look at it this way: Yeah, it's annoying to test the water and if you haven't done the nitrAte test yet... well lets just say I'd rather perform a 50% water change than do a nitrAte test using the API test kit... or watch paint dry for that matter. But yeah, 5 minutes to test everyday can save your fishes lives during a cycle.

2. Yes, although it's likely you will doing more than one 50% change per week as the toxins build up anyway.

3. No, it doesn't need to be removed but it's OK to remove especially if it's bothering you.

4. No harm will come to the cycle or the fish due to your water change so long as you properly dechlorinate and temperature match the water of course. The bacteria colonies reside on surfaces, not within the water itself.

The haze that you described on the 60 gallon is probably bacterial bloom. This is a good sign, if that is so, because it means that bacteria colonies are beginning to form.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

1. Yes, you should test everyday while cycling with fish for their safety. I look at it this way: Yeah, it's annoying to test the water and if you haven't done the nitrAte test yet... well lets just say I'd rather perform a 50% water change than do a nitrAte test using the API test kit... or watch paint dry for that matter. But yeah, 5 minutes to test everyday can save your fishes lives during a cycle.

2. Yes, although it's likely you will doing more than one 50% change per week as the toxins build up anyway.

3. No, it doesn't need to be removed but it's OK to remove especially if it's bothering you.

4. No harm will come to the cycle or the fish due to your water change so long as you properly dechlorinate and temperature match the water of course. The bacteria colonies reside on surfaces, not within the water itself.

The haze that you described on the 60 gallon is probably bacterial bloom. This is a good sign, if that is so, because it means that bacteria colonies are beginning to form.

Thanks Laser.

As for the "haze" I described, would that occur this far in to the process? I only ask because most brand-new tanks of course get the New Tank Syndrome of the cloudy water and such, but we experienced this when using the Seachem Stability -- then, suddenly, the water went crystal clear, and I thought that was going to remain now...so now you're saying bacteria colonies may be taking hold?

So it's probably possible that the Stability did not actually introduce any BB into the tank, and simply clouded the water, and NOW colonies are beginning to form? What is that slime (colorless) on the glass anyway -- is this from the fish's slime coat, or is it algae or part of the bacteria process? I went ahead and wiped it off with the algae magnet...