Whacked out water parameters

[PatrickStarr]

Ok I need some help reading my new GH KH test kit and some advice on some screwy water problems....

I'm POSITIVE I have very hard water from my well and use water that has gone through the softener for my aquarium. It also goes through a 5 micron sediment filter, UV light and a carbon block too. Now I see that I have elevated nitrate levels too from the tap.

I am about a month in to this new 75gal freshwater and so far the fish and plants seem to be doing fine but..... (the fish and plants are in my profile)

The water comes out of the tap with a PH of 7.6-7.8. After about 48 hours the PH of my tap water that has been sitting in a clean glass bowl is 8.4 to 8.8 ??? I thought I had some bad substrate and put a bowl of water with substrate and a bowl of control water out for two days. The water with the substrate is actually a little lower than the plain water from what I can tell! What gives?? The guy at the lfs says we have really high ph water in this area and the fish are ok with it. Their aquariums they sell from are 8.2. He seemed to know a lot and said not to put peat in the filter just let it be the fish will get used to it as long as it doesn't change much and with as much buffer as we have in our water it will be impossible to change without it swinging up and down and killing fish.

Nitrates coming out of the tap are approx 20-40ppm which is over EPA limits. I am having a lab verify that next week. Everything else from the tap is 0.

The aquarium water after 1 week is PH 8.8+ Ammonia .25ppm Nitrite 0.5ppm Nitrate 40-80ppm (can't really tell the difference)

As for the GH KH kit, I don't really get the results. My KH test starts out blue and after 15 drops goes straight from blue to yellow. My GH test starts out green from the first drop and never turns to orange even after 50 drops. What am I doing wrong???



I think the answer is for me to put in an RODI system and use half tap water half RODI water (or some combination). What do you think? My wife is freaked out that our tap has high nitrates and is wanting one installed now anyhow. I am also using Seachem Stability and Prime for the water and CO2 boost for the plants. All of that says it shouldn't change the water parameters. I change the water 10% every other day and 25% once a weekend just to be safe. I have no idea if the tank has cycled yet as the Nitrates are sky high just from the tap. I did just get some green stringy algae and some brown spot looking algae on the filter tube, larger rocks, and java ferns but it seems to be keeping in check. I just scraped it all off before my weekend water change.

Any advice on whats up with my PH and if my tank may have cycled yet?? I'm freakin lost here!

Like I said the fish seem happy and the plants are doing good too. The hornwort grows 1 or 2 inches a day now! Sorry for the long read...

 

[Fishfur]

You're running the water through the softener first ? that's the problem. Fish don't do well long term in softened water, because the softener removes hard water minerals like calcium and magnesium and replaces them with another mineral, usually salt. So the water has no calcium, possibly no magnesium either and that's what KH and GH tests measure. If you have shrimp or snails, they will suffer, not enough calcium to maintain shells. Fish need some minerals to manage fluid balance too.

You'd be better off using straight well water. I assume it's potable as is ? If you get an RO filter, you will have to remineralize the water for the fish and plants, using a product made for this purpose. Plants use nitrates, so the nitrate level, while it's not desirable, is not a disaster for fish or plants. Nitrite or ammonia would be worse. You might have to monitor nitrates a bit more carefully. Some of the common Hygrophila species of plant are very good nitrate users, as are many floating plants, like frogbit, floating water sprite, and of course, duckweeds.

If you go RO, make sure you have one tap that does not go through the softener, and use that one for the tank. Remineralize to suit the fish.

Your lfs is right that with such hard water, changing the pH would be next to impossible without major swings. Stability is far better. But because you have softened it, you've removed the minerals that do the buffering.

There are some shrimp substrates that soften water and lower pH too, but they need to be cycled for some time, are not cheap, and might actually lower the pH far too much. Meant for keeping delicate shrimp, at pH values well under 6.

 

[dalto]

The guy at the lfs says we have really high ph water in this area and the fish are ok with it. Their aquariums they sell from are 8.2. He seemed to know a lot and said not to put peat in the filter just let it be the fish will get used to it as long as it doesn't change much and with as much buffer as we have in our water it will be impossible to change without it swinging up and down and killing fish.

My thoughts on this are here.

Nitrates coming out of the tap are approx 20-40ppm which is over EPA limits. I am having a lab verify that next week. Everything else from the tap is 0.

If you are on city water that is a problem. If you are on well water that happens but I would still have it checked.

The aquarium water after 1 week is PH 8.8+ Ammonia .25ppm Nitrite 0.5ppm Nitrate 40-80ppm (can't really tell the difference)

As for the GH KH kit, I don't really get the results. My KH test starts out blue and after 15 drops goes straight from blue to yellow. My GH test starts out green from the first drop and never turns to orange even after 50 drops. What am I doing wrong???

Nothing.

Your GH is 0 since it is going through a ion-exchange softener. Keep in mind it is still high in TDS. Try testing your GH using water from an external faucet. Your KH is 15 which is really high.

I think the answer is for me to put in an RODI system and use half tap water half RODI water (or some combination). What do you think? My wife is freaked out that our tap has high nitrates and is wanting one installed now anyhow. I am also using Seachem Stability and Prime for the water and CO2 boost for the plants. All of that says it shouldn't change the water parameters. I change the water 10% every other day and 25% once a weekend just to be safe. I have no idea if the tank has cycled yet as the Nitrates are sky high just from the tap.

Your tank has not cycled yet. If it had, your ammonia and nitrite would be 0.

As far as your water goes, what kind of fish do you want to keep?

 

[dalto]

You're running the water through the softener first ? that's the problem. Fish don't do well long term in softened water, because the softener removes hard water minerals like calcium and replaces them with another mineral, usually salt. So the water has no calcium, possibly no magnesium either and that's what KH and GH tests measure for.

You'd be better off using straight well water, and filter it first if need be, but not soften it.

KH tests do not test for calcium and magnesium, that should be fairly close. Whether water passed through a ion-exchange softener is harmful for fish is debatable. It certainly isn't good for snails which need the calcium.

 

[Fishfur]

Sorry, my mistake. GH tests for total hardness, which is calcium and magnesium.

 

[PatrickStarr]

Thanks

Thanks for all the info. Yes, that makes sense now why my GH test is doing that. Right now I am keeping only community tropicals like tetras and danios. I have some freshwater clams too. I was thinking about getting freshwater shrimp but now will look in to what water parameters they can thrive in a little more before I decide on that.

Based on my suggested readings I think I am going to mix some RODI water in when I do water changes starting with small amounts....maybe 10% RODI water and 90% unsoftened well water and see where that gets me during partial water changes. I am also getting a TDS meter to help judge how much RODI water to add.

Hopefully after I get a little better at this, I will do a saltwater tank as well. That's probably a few years off though.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[dalto]

With your KH as high as it is I would start with a much higher percentage of RO water. I think cutting it in 10/90 will probably do close to nothing. 50/50 is probably a reasonable place to start.

 

[PatrickStarr]

Ok. That drastic of a change won't make anyone float upside down will it?

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[dalto]

It shouldn't because you are talk about doing a 50/50 mix as a water change.

Even if you did a 50% water change the resultant tank water would still be 75/25.

If you have very sensitive fish you are dealing with you could always do less.

 

[PatrickStarr]

Thanks!

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Fishfur]

Are you feeding the clams anything specific ? I have found they do need feeding. If you can get some, Golden Pearls, 5-50 micron size, is one good food for them, and so is cultured greenwater. I also feed microworms, and they appear to take those as well.

They are capable of surviving for months in a state of semi starvation before it kills them, so the fact they are alive after a month or two or even three is no guarantee they are eating enough. You either have to weigh them regularly using a scale that measures in grams or less or measure their girth regularly, to be able to tell if they are gaining in size or weight.

I used to keep a separate circulation pump going in the tank I keep filter feeders in. I had a few species of filter feeding shrimp as well as three species of clam. Of the three, one did very poorly, perhaps starved beyond saving before I got them, perhaps simply not suited to tank living. The second was the round black and white type, and the longest I had one of them live was about 18 months. They all gained weight, and I am not sure why they died.

The last are the Golden Asian clam, which have so far seemed to do ok, but I have not had them for very long yet, so it's hard to say. If they die, the shells open up, and snails or shrimp will quickly find and eat them. If you have no scavengers, you should check the clams regularly to be sure they're still alive.