What substrate to use?

[shadowstars123]

Peat needs to be capped, like with sand or other grain, like when you were talking about using a gravel on top? I indicated that wouldn't work properly. Did you pre-soak the peat? It's best to, so you get maximum compaction and it becomes like a soil base. I just throw a bunch in a pail, add PWC tank water and let it set for a couple days to soak. 1" of peat then laterite, then 2" of PFS and then you can add water (use the plate trick, works great).

IDK about oil-dry in an aquarium, because if it's the same stuff we use in the shop it would dissolve (more or less) if we put it on a spill and let it set overnight. Where did you get it?

Yeah I'm going to cap the peat with oil-dri and gravel, I haven't placed the substrate in the tank yet, because the tank's already established and I have to move my filters to another tank until i'm done exchanging substrates, or just the media in a bucket with an airstone and some old tank water. I'm soaking the peat as of right now, and i'm going to swap out the substrates tommorow or on saturday. I got the oil-dri at walmart, it's basically clay-based cat litter, cheap alternative since it's only 3$ for a 25 pound bag of it.

 

[jetajockey]

Does oil-dri ever run clear? And if it doesn't, will the cloudy water from the oil-dri harm my Fluval 405? I already asked this question on the general discussion forum, but so far no responses.

There really isn't a fast way to rinse it, I just throw it in a bucket and put a hose in it and let it run for 10 or 15 min, stir it up, and repeat, draining off the cloudy water.

Eventually the cloudiness will subside, but it takes a ton of rinsing. The cloudiness is just clay particulate, so it settles pretty quickly, and is not hard like sand.

 

[jetajockey]

IDK about oil-dry in an aquarium, because if it's the same stuff we use in the shop it would dissolve (more or less) if we put it on a spill and let it set overnight. Where did you get it?

I don't know what kind you are using, possibly the cellulose type, the basic coarse granular oil dri holds up just fine though. It also happens to be the same stuff we use for fuel spills on the tarmack, although we alternate between it and the cellulose type, and another quick drying kind, presumably depending on which is cheapest at the time.

I do recall stepping on the cellulose type after it had soaked up some water and it turned to mush.

 

[shadowstars123]

There really isn't a fast way to rinse it, I just throw it in a bucket and put a hose in it and let it run for 10 or 15 min, stir it up, and repeat, draining off the cloudy water.

Eventually the cloudiness will subside, but it takes a ton of rinsing. The cloudiness is just clay particulate, so it settles pretty quickly, and is not hard like sand.

I have 50 pounds, so I see how my weekend is going to be... Rinse and repeat..

 

[Mr. Limpet]

Yeah I'm going to cap the peat with oil-dri and gravel, I haven't placed the substrate in the tank yet, because the tank's already established and I have to move my filters to another tank until i'm done exchanging substrates, or just the media in a bucket with an airstone and some old tank water. I'm soaking the peat as of right now, and i'm going to swap out the substrates tommorow or on saturday. I got the oil-dri at walmart, it's basically clay-based cat litter, cheap alternative since it's only 3$ for a 25 pound bag of it.

Gotcha. I'm interested to see your results since I never considered using peat with gravel. I'd suggest you keep an eye on your pH levels, since peat can cause it to drop kinda like DW (slow, steady, but temporary).

 

[shadowstars123]

Gotcha. I'm interested to see your results since I never considered using peat with gravel. I'd suggest you keep an eye on your pH levels, since peat can cause it to drop kinda like DW (slow, steady, but temporary).

I know, thats the main reason i'm using peat, because my water has a 7.8 pH and i'm raising discus. But it's temporary.. And the peat won't be exposed much, since i'm capping it with a layer of oildri then another layer of gravel. I'll keep you posted nevertheless.

 

[Mr. Limpet]

I know, thats the main reason i'm using peat, because my water has a 7.8 pH and i'm raising discus. But it's temporary.. And the peat won't be exposed much, since i'm capping it with a layer of oildri then another layer of gravel. I'll keep you posted nevertheless.

Ah, that makes sense. The way I do it, the peat can't get to the water column to cause a pH shift, at least it hasn't in my tanks since they're a rock solid 7.8 too lol.

One thing I've heard some do, is put peat dry (unsoaked) in a mesh bag or stocking and it's supposed to lower the pH, but i've never tried it.

 

[shadowstars123]

Ah, that makes sense. The way I do it, the peat can't get to the water column to cause a pH shift, at least it hasn't in my tanks since they're a rock solid 7.8 too lol.

One thing I've heard some do, is put peat dry (unsoaked) in a mesh bag or stocking and it's supposed to lower the pH, but i've never tried it.

Aren't constant pH changes stressful? That's why i'm not going try the peat in mesh thing. Althought therr are commercially sold peat pellets to put inside of filters. Specifically canisters. It's supposed to do the same, lower pH.

 

[Mr. Limpet]

Aren't constant pH changes stressful? That's why i'm not going try the peat in mesh thing. Althought therr are commercially sold peat pellets to put inside of filters. Specifically canisters. It's supposed to do the same, lower pH.

Yes, pH shifts are really bad for fish. I just heard the bag-o-peat thing and thought about it when I thought I needed to lower my pH so my Moors would breed. Before I finished my tests they laid about 300 eggs and now I have 14 fry .

 

[Mr. Limpet]

I don't know what kind you are using, possibly the cellulose type, the basic coarse granular oil dri holds up just fine though. It also happens to be the same stuff we use for fuel spills on the tarmack, although we alternate between it and the cellulose type, and another quick drying kind, presumably depending on which is cheapest at the time.

I do recall stepping on the cellulose type after it had soaked up some water and it turned to mush.

We were using the small grain stuff I guess. It was what I'd call kitty litter, only in a 55g drum lol. I'm gonna check out what Walmart has though.

 

[jetajockey]

i add alder cones to lower pH in certain tanks and it seems to help. I've not had any issues because of it so I think it is drastic ph shifts that are an issue rather than those from tannins (like driftwood, peat, etc)

 

[shadowstars123]

Yes, pH shifts are really bad for fish. I just heard the bag-o-peat thing and thought about it when I thought I needed to lower my pH so my Moors would breed. Before I finished my tests they laid about 300 eggs and now I have 14 fry .

I'd think changing the pH during breeding would delay it even more.. But i could be wrong. By the way, is it bad to change the substrate in an established tank? As well as turning off a canister filter and moving the media into a bucket with an airstoje and pwc water?

 

[Mr. Limpet]

I'd think changing the pH during breeding would delay it even more.. But i could be wrong. By the way, is it bad to change the substrate in an established tank? As well as turning off a canister filter and moving the media into a bucket with an airstoje and pwc water?

I changed media in my DT with the fish in and didn't have an issue (filters, air, heat off), but goldies are pretty hardy. I hear Discus are pretty fragile, if I'm remembering right, so I'd think it'd be best to rehome them till you get it done. If the canister doesn't sit for too long the bacteria will be fine IMO.

I was gonna change the pH so they would breed, they beat me to it lol.

 

[shadowstars123]

I changed media in my DT with the fish in and didn't have an issue (filters, air, heat off), but goldies are pretty hardy. I hear Discus are pretty fragile, if I'm remembering right, so I'd think it'd be best to rehome them till you get it done. If the canister doesn't sit for too long the bacteria will be fine IMO.

I was gonna change the pH so they would breed, they beat me to it lol.

Oh i don't have discus yet, going to finish with all the details and stabilize it once i changed the substrate to add them. How long was your filter off? Cause it might take me a good 2 hours to drain, remove, add, and cap the substrate. Maybe more

 

[Mr. Limpet]

Oh i don't have discus yet, going to finish with all the details and stabilize it once i changed the substrate to add them. How long was your filter off? Cause it might take me a good 2 hours to drain, remove, add, and cap the substrate. Maybe more

With the change I did, I have HOB and I put the media in a bucket of tank water that I saved to put back in and it was in there for maybe 2-3hrs. Can't say that I even had a mini cycle, which surprised me since the old gravel was loaded with gunk.

You could put the in/out of the can into a bucket of tank water and just let it turn the bucket of water over if you're concerned. Something like that should work I'd think.

 

[shadowstars123]

With the change I did, I have HOB and I put the media in a bucket of tank water that I saved to put back in and it was in there for maybe 2-3hrs. Can't say that I even had a mini cycle, which surprised me since the old gravel was loaded with gunk.

You could put the in/out of the can into a bucket of tank water and just let it turn the bucket of water over if you're concerned. Something like that should work I'd think.

Good idea. Well since hob and canister medias are basically the same, so'll just put thrm in a bucket with an airstone. Thanks for the advice!

 

[shadowstars123]

There really isn't a fast way to rinse it, I just throw it in a bucket and put a hose in it and let it run for 10 or 15 min, stir it up, and repeat, draining off the cloudy water.

Eventually the cloudiness will subside, but it takes a ton of rinsing. The cloudiness is just clay particulate, so it settles pretty quickly, and is not hard like sand.

I swear I rinsed about 15 pounds of oil dri like 40 times, and it's still as cloudy as ever. Is this normal?..

 

[shadowstars123]

I swear I rinsed about 15 pounds of oil dri like 40 times, and it's still as cloudy as ever. Is this normal?..

I juay put in a 1 inch layer of peat topped off with 2 inch of oil dri. I can't see my background.. Also, the oil dri is moving a bit due to filter output.. Is this normal?

 

[Greatsoccerman]

I just set up a tank with organic soil some cloudier mixed on top with sand from petsmart mixed with playsand

 

[jetajockey]

I juay put in a 1 inch layer of peat topped off with 2 inch of oil dri. I can't see my background.. Also, the oil dri is moving a bit due to filter output.. Is this normal?

You might have to diffuse the output if it pushes it around alot. I've never had an issue with this but I use canister filters rather than HOBs. HOBs also push sand around so people often stuff more filter floss into them to diffuse the flow, or make a DIY diffuser.

If it's cloudy then you have two choices, either let it settle or do a water change. When you are adding water back to the tank, use a plate or a bowl to spray the water onto so that it is not stirring up the substrate.