Who among us has a perfect tank? (vent)

[twoodrough]

This site has been awesome and helpful on my journey to figure out the hobby of fishkeeping. But....

My one issue is the tone some people take when answering questions. I know I won't always get the answer I want, but if I am asking about the behavior of a guppy I am not looking for a full tank critique. Some people are good at softening constructive criticism, but there are others that can make incorrect assumptions about me and my knowledge and come off very blunt in their responses and opinions. It has turned me off more than once and I vow to not come back. Then something happens with my tank and I have no where else to go for answers. So, I open myself up for the virtual hand slapping I inevitably get because I don't do things perfectly. I sometimes wonder if the people that are rough on others had their tanks reviewed how they would fair.

For instance:

Yes, I have a fantail goldfish in a 20 gallon tropical tank with 3 other fish. But did you know that I keep the temp on the high side for the goldy and on the low end for the tropical fish? Did you know that I have a 200 gph filter on a 20 gallon tank? Did you know that I keep two large cartridges and a sponge in there to house loads of bacteria for the extra ammonia the goldy is going to produce? Did you know that I do 50% water changes each week or more? Did you know that my nitrates are usually at or under 10? Did know you that I feed about 6 different kinds of food? Did you know that I changed my feeding schedule when I got the goldy because of their lack of digestive system and small frequest feedings will serve her better? Did you know that I have an air stone going to keep the oxygen levels up for the goldy since I have her in a warmer tank? Did you know that once the goldy gets bigger in a couple of years my husband has said I can get a larger tank to accomodate her (and the others)? Did you know that people (non fish people) look at my tank and say it should have more fish? I don't try to explain to them why I don't want more, they wouldn't get it. The person that jumped on may case last week for having a goldy in a 20 gallon tank with tropical fish knew nothing about the research I had done and the things I was trying to do to counter the "wrong" things I was doing. Is my tank perfect? No, but the things I have done and the results I have certainly shouldn't be overlooked.

That is the end of my rant. I am sure there are people itching to jump all over me.

Thank you to those people that are able to tell me that I am not going the right way without making me feel like a bumbling idiot that has no brain and hasn't done any research. I appreciate you more than you know. I listen to you and value your advice.

 

[stevedocs]

Ohhhhh a fantail in a 20 you may wanna re home that

People are quick to judge but that's only because so many people have been duped by people who know nothing. People only on here have the fishes interest at heart, but I know where your coming from

 

[Pipedreamer86]

I totally agree to a point. I gave someone some advice the other day about moving a tank, from experience, and another user totally bashed me and made me feel about an inch tall basically saying I shouldnt give such terrible advice.
That said, the mods here are terrific. I don't envy the work they do. Especially because at any given time there are at least 3 posts asking the same question. Somehow they fimd the time and patience to answer each one without being rude. Cheers mods, and thank you for embracing the fact that everyone thinks their cycle is special. There are also a handful of regular posters here that also do a fantastic job helping. I have my people i listen too, and TRY to let the jerks roll off my back.

 

[rylake]

You got help from jlk. Probably the nicest most helpful person on here. Not too sure what your all up in arms about.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/what-happened-with-my-fantail-236984.html

 

[Samzter]

You got help from jlk. Probably the nicest most helpful person on here. Not too sure what your all up in arms about.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/what-happened-with-my-fantail-236984.html

Yeah ? I agree that jlk is one of the nicest people on here! But I think you're doing just the right thing it looks like you know what you're doing!

 

[tamtam]

I think a lot is also lost in tone over the internet. Texts and smilies can only go so far and it's hard to not sound mean or over the top when you are pointing out some flaws.

In the end people only have the fishes needs at heart. Generally we want the best for the fish. Sure some peoples set ups are OK, or can maybe get by but why is it enough? Why not give our fish the best we can? Some people have poor delivery that's for sure but a lot of these people have great experience. The learning never really ends though and when you think you know it all is when you should just throw in the towel

It sounds like you've done a lot of research and all which is great but you still need to be open to other peoples opinion and thoughts. There is still so much to be learned. Do you know the growth rate of goldies? That typically they do all of their growing in the first 2-3 years. Or that by stunting their growth it will shorten their lifespan, most know this but what they don't realize stunting does. That when their bodies stop growing their organs don't. They will grow until they shut down and kill the fish. JLK is a great source of info on goldies, and how to cycle a tank , I would take anything she says heavily into account as she strictly has the fishes best interest in mind.

 

[jetajockey]

One thing to remember at the end of the day is that most of what you will read from people is opinion. Some are very conservative in their recommendations and others aren't. Some are well informed in their views and others just repeat what they've read somewhere. You'll find this in any community.

People tend to take fish profiles to heart, although they may just represent a suggested "ideal" temperature/ph to keep the species in, and with the nature of the internet anyone can make a 'fish profile' site regardless of accuracy. Many of the fish we keep have extensive wild ranges including varying habitats and seasonal temperature fluctuations, so it can be very subjective. There's likely only a few fish that live all year round in a constant temperature so hard numbers tend to be a bit misleading.

I keep fancy goldfish in my pond and the goes from 50s in the winter to low 80s all summer, they are in there with guppies.
I have another large tank inside with 6 fancy goldfish at room temp (low 70s) and a black ghost knife. Some scream foul or incompatabilty, but I've kept him in community tanks for over a year now, as well as at room temps, and his behavior has been completely normal. If he ever shows any aggressive behavior then he'll have to be moved but so far so good.
I'm sure there are lots of people who wouldn't do things like I do.

My point is everything is not always as black and white as it seems, but keep in mind that people who give advice often go with a 'best practice' approach. It's hard to give stocking advice for 'future' tank sizes, so most will tell you what works and doesn't work in the current setup over the long term.

 

[shellieca]

I understand you're "rant" but please understand that the people answering your question are usually trying to give you the best possible answer & they can only base they're response on the information you've provided at that moment. I think many times we read a certain tone into what someone has written & make it sound snotty or degrading in our own minds when the poster did not mean it that way at all. You shouldn't be offended, hurt, mad or any of those other things based on a person's response, ignore the idiots & listen to those you think have the most knowledge for your situation. Just my opinion.

 

[HopefulHobbiest]

i completely understand your pain with this, and i've seen the type of thing you're talking about. i read a thread about a week ago(can't remember what it was) but someone posted some advice to the OP that sounded very legit and with wonderful intentions, however... the next user to post completely ripped the guy apart and borderline called him/her a complete moron.

electronic communication is always hard when it comes to translating emotion behind the words. i see it every day in texts or emails, but i try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt when the scale could go either way. but if you can EASILY tell someone is being a jerk then thats down right rude and not needed. we all come here for help and advice and i am personally greatful to the users who have answered question after question after question from me, even when they seem to be stupid questions there's always someone there to help and 99.9% of the time everyone thats responded to me has been amazing.

i've had multiple run-ins with at least four members that come to mind:
Jetajockey(who posted above)
RiverCats
JLK
and Cynic(if spelled correctly)

these four members are by far the most helpful people here and offer advice without being judgemental or harsh with their approach.

+10 for all four of them

 

[HN1]

I agree with the previous comments and would like to include one sorta "counter" point. The more information you place in a thread, the better the advice you will receive to a large degree. i.e. If posting about a fancy in a 20G, state that you have X filter on it with X PWC schedule, with X media, etc. It helps to avoid the automatic jump to conclusions that I have even been guilty of sometimes. And because (as already mentioned) tone is impossible to properly convey in text... Know that I typed this with a on my face and zero ill will.

 

[baron1282]

I seen some of peoples "Holier than thou" complex on this site. One person came excited about a new fish they purchased for their 10 gallon tank. That person was ripped a new one because it happened to be a Bala Shark. Only a few gave helpful advice, but the rest made that person leave and never come back. The person even said he took the Bala Shark back. The OP said they were going to upgrade to a 55 gallon tank, but couldn't do it any time soon.

I seen how small Bala Sharks are when you first get them, and to be honest I wouldn't think a big tank was needed myself. The people in this community made the OP feel like crap and I have not seen the OP since.

My point is, the vast majority of us get into this hobby without doing any kind of research. Why should we? A ton of people see fish as just decorations for our amusement, so we grow up thinking that fish die and we just get new ones. I jumped in with a 29 gallon tank and everything died on me. That is when I came to this site and learned about the tank cycle and everything else. So most of the people that think their tank is perfect probably started out like me. Not knowing anything and having a HUGE failure. Now I know more about fish and how to care for them. I will not tell people they did something wrong if it is their first tank set up. They should learn from it, and than we can jump on someone if it's their 2nd tank, by then they should know better.

Another thing is the "Tang Police". LoL I see it a lot, but most websites and fish stores say a Blue Hippo Tang is fine in a 75 gallon tank. Personally I won't put a Blue Hippo into anything smaller than a 125 gallon.

 

[twoodrough]

Sometimes I find the more info I post the more there is for other people to pick apart. I still think this is a great place for help and information. I agree people might have the fishies interests at heart, but as others said the answers are not all black and white and there is room to wiggle. Thanks for letting me vent, and not kicking me off! I was afraid.

 

[HopefulHobbiest]

everyone has to vent and many of us are understanding of that fact. especially the Mod's... i don't think i've ever seen them remove a thread unless it caused a fight, completely disrespected someone or the occassional doubled thread.(last one i know from personal experience lol... so much for smart phones right??)

we all have to vent sometimes, why not vent to people who may share your pain or at least understand where you're coming from

 

[baron1282]

Sometimes I find the more info I post the more there is for other people to pick apart. I still think this is a great place for help and information. I agree people might have the fishies interests at heart, but as others said the answers are not all black and white and there is room to wiggle. Thanks for letting me vent, and not kicking me off! I was afraid.

I think this is a important discussion! Like you said most people don't really try and help, but rather bash the poor person. I think people need to be aware of who is coming to this site for help.

Most people that come are not going to be experts on fish keeping, that is why they come to sites like this. They need help, otherwise they wouldn't be here. So when a person comes and ask a question, they expect help.

For a first time fish keeper seeking help, only to be bashed for not cycling their tank first, and other size requirements of their fish is all wrong, it can be devastating to that person.

My view is to be kind, and tell them the problems and try to help them along. Education is more important at this point as they can learn and get the information out to more people.

Not every person here bashes the new person, in fact I have only seen it once on my time at this site. It should be noted thou that it's very important to consider how a new person seeking advice is treated the first time they post. It can make the difference between someone not caring about their fish and keep killing them, or an educated person that tells others about how to keep fish properly.

 

[HopefulHobbiest]

+1 for the above from baron1282

 

[DragonFish71]

1) some of us are blunt, we tell the truth and it's up to the individual to determine how they want to take it. I'm very blunt and don't sugar coat my answers, ahem, probably why I don't answer much in the forums.

2) some of us believe in "kiss"; keep it simple stupid. Too much information at once can over- whelm someone

3) to be honest, some people are WAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY too sensitive to any type of criticism, so when you let them know something is wrong, they get their feelers hurt

4) some are people who think because it's the inter-net they can get away with behaviors they wouldn't normally wouldn't do in public or around parents/friends/family.

5) people will be people. You can't change them and you can't shoot them.

 

[twoodrough]

People are usually here asking questions because they are stressed out by something that is happening in their tank, and feeling they did something wrong to cause it, and not know what to do to fix it, then to be pummeled on top of that is really frustrating. That is probably where I fall.

 

[marsh]

I respect the way the OP stated her feelings. As a 28 year old who remembers using the intraweb in gradeschool I just think this is standard net drama. People, a few mods included, are not held to the same standard of conduct online that they would use in person and give themselves permission to act like jerks when IRL they would check themselves.

Mostly this is the nicest and most respectful online community you are going to find. But don't let {Mod edit} them get you down, just laugh it off! People are crazy, online it just flows more freely. I'd smack a crazy cheesehead but he would never try to pull any {Mod edit} stuff if he saw me face to face and we both know it. I've met men who hide behind their monikers a million times

 

[marsh]

i completely understand your pain with this, and i've seen the type of thing you're talking about. i read a thread about a week ago(can't remember what it was) but someone posted some advice to the OP that sounded very legit and with wonderful intentions, however... the next user to post completely ripped the guy apart and borderline called him/her a complete moron.

electronic communication is always hard when it comes to translating emotion behind the words. i see it every day in texts or emails, but i try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt when the scale could go either way. but if you can EASILY tell someone is being a jerk then thats down right rude and not needed. we all come here for help and advice and i am personally greatful to the users who have answered question after question after question from me, even when they seem to be stupid questions there's always someone there to help and 99.9% of the time everyone thats responded to me has been amazing.

i've had multiple run-ins with at least four members that come to mind:
Jetajockey(who posted above)
RiverCats
JLK
and Cynic(if spelled correctly)

these four members are by far the most helpful people here and offer advice without being judgemental or harsh with their approach.

+10 for all four of them

+10 more- I appreciate jeta he gives mods a great name

 

[Wy Renegade]

Internet forums are a lot like real life, you have to take things with a grain of salt. Sometimes you are going to like what you hear, sometimes you won't. Sometimes you get exactly the answer you want, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you get help, sometimes you get the jerk who just wants to point out everything you are doing wrong. Sometimes people have good intentions and they just come across wrong, sometimes they are just being a jerk.

Take the good with the bad, focus on the good. If the bad is too far out of line, hit that little report button at the bottom of the post, and a mod will show up to help get things on track. We can't be everywhere at once, and we can't read every thread, but when things get reported, we see it and we can respond.