Wigglers 2: Birth of a hatchery & everything Angels

[Autumnsky]

What a long road of difficulty Andy. I am rooting for you to get this puzzle worked out. Just so you know.

 

[Laeris]

What about the possibility of air purifiers? You know, the ones for mold and smoke style of thing?

 

[Andy Sager]

What a long road of difficulty Andy. I am rooting for you to get this puzzle worked out. Just so you know.

Thanks. While most people have water issues, it's not all that common, I believe, to have AIR problems with fish. At this point, I'm not even sure that ventilating the place is even the answer anymore considering that this is happening still with the place being aired out all day. But if I can get the fry to free swim at the house then move them to the building, I'd be okay with that. That's how the outside farmers do it anyway. The fish aren't spawned in the ponds directly in most cases. You just have to adapt.

What about the possibility of air purifiers? You know, the ones for mold and smoke style of thing?

I've tried that route already and it failed after a few days. Considering the cost of these units vs what fish go for these days, it's not worth it to me to make that kind of investment. As I stated above, there are other ways to get this fixed and I'll just have to change up what I was doing. The biggest issue was figuring out WHAT the cause was and after all that time, at least I now know what is going on so I can adjust my methods.

 

[Andy Sager]

Well today, I got my answer. The spawn from inside the building with the high ammonia level (which is now in my house) was supposed to have begun swimming yesterday but most of those fry are dead. The good news is that 2 other spawns that were outside the building from spawning day on, 1 from an old pair and 1 from an F1 pair, have started swimming. There's a lot of swimmers too. The other spawns are all from either 1st or second time spawners so their hatch rates are low but I am not concerned with them. So it's clear that I cannot hatch out spawns in the new building unless I can get better circulation in here which I can see in the summertime will be an issue for my other business so no holes in the walls for now. A little more work for me but at least I don't have to take the pairs out of the building ( which was starting to look like the only viable solution. )
I've been trying to get the pregnant Guppies to deliver in the Guppy row where they are in their own 5 gal tanks within the larger system but I am having better luck at finding the fry hiding in the floating grass in the community tanks than moving them. ( Not sure why either ) I even had a delivery in a tank from the Guppy rack where the most pregnant female was inside a net breeder but another loose female in the same tank had some fry so the fry went into the net and the other female is now loose again. Trying to figure these fish out is enough to make one crazy.
The last batch of Albino Plecos are all doing well. Counted about 30 yesterday so it's definitely time to get the older ones in the tank spread out to other tanks. Come on summer!!!!! Poppa gots to set up some tanks outside!!!! :LOL:

I've suspended my attempts at breeding the cories for now until I figured out a better way to hatch them out and with this new development with the Angel fry, I'm either going to try spawning them outside the building or will have to do daily water changes with the eggs in the building until they hatch and I can get a sponge filter on the fry. The surviving 3 fry from the last attempt are all doing great and growing. So I know they can be done, I just need to get more of them going.

Time to set up more brine shrimp eggs.

 

[Autumnsky]

It's great to see some answers developing and some new fry coming along any which way!

 

[Delapool]

Yes, I've been cheering for the fry but figured they were in good hands. So complex though!

 

[Andy Sager]

It's great to see some answers developing and some new fry coming along any which way!

Yes, I've been cheering for the fry but figured they were in good hands. So complex though!

Thank you both. It just goes to show that when you are dealing with livestock and something goes wrong, there are sooooo many possibilities that can't all be eliminated in a short amount of time. Water chemistry, Temp, Food, Tankmates, Setup, The fish themselves all play a role in when things go wrong. And that's just a few of the things one needs to address. In my case, who would have ever thought it was the building itself? But now I know for sure what it is so I can address it and come up with a solution. The good part is that these 2 spawns are from new and old pairs so I know it's not the fish. One pair is even a Veiltail Barred Marble so hopefully I'll now be able to offer Veils as well.

 

[Andy Sager]

Today is moving day. My 2 swimming spawns from next door are in the process of being acclimated to their now homes in the building. With a sponge filter, now all I need to do is more frequent water changes to keep the nitrates from getting too high. Hopefully, this will be the process from here on out ( if this works. )

I seem to have found the magic word to get my female Guppies to drop fry. I have them all in group tanks by color ATM but have been moving the most pregnant looking females into their own 5 gal bin with plenty of floating plants on the rack and leaving the less pregnant ones in the group tanks. That seems to be the ticket. The results of this have been: NONE of these females in the bins have given birth and at least 4 of the "lesser pregnant" females in group tanks have. It's the bins you say? Nope. Females in the group bins on the rack are giving birth so it's not the rack. What's worse is these group tanks don't have good hiding spots for the fry and I'm only finding them because they are hiding under the sponge filters or in what little plant life is in their tanks. Sure wish I could figure this out because I really want to purposely breed some of the assorted males I got from the original Guppy cross I did with my buddy's 1/2 blacks but I have run out of empty bins on the guppy rack. I don't mind gang tanking all the same color but I have 3 colors ATM that are dropping and I need to keep the colors separate.

Fish breeding is so much fun!!!

 

[ghyti]

Today is moving day. My 2 swimming spawns from next door are in the process of being acclimated to their now homes in the building. With a sponge filter, now all I need to do is more frequent water changes to keep the nitrates from getting too high.

Bingo! problem solved. Why not just put them inside a cycled sponge filter when they hatch instead of moving them? As you say a cycled sponge will take care of the ammonia problem.

 

[Andy Sager]

Bingo! problem solved. Why not just put them inside a cycled sponge filter when they hatch instead of moving them? As you say a cycled sponge will take care of the ammonia problem.

If it were only that easy. I tried that and the problem was the ammonia level in the air here was enough that the nitrATE level was high in the fry water after only 48-72 hours and the fry still didn't swim. I'd have to be doing massive water changes daily and I just don't have that kind of time with so many pairs going. Even with a sponge filter, more ammonia going in means more nitrate coming out. Outside of the building, there is no ammonia or nitrates to deal with which is better for the fry. These 2 spawns are proof. But another example of why it's better for them to be out of the building, the fry from one of the tanks that remained in the building for 2 days after hatching ( and having air circulating in the building all day) are now showing signs of distress after only being exposed to the higher ammonia for just under 48 hours. ( ammonia was just higher than .25ppm.) I did a 100% water change on them and moved them next door but even that didn't solve the problem apparently. Those fry should have been swimming 2 days ago but they are just dying on the bottom of the tank. I've been using the same old proven pair as my "standard" and their first successful spawn since July of 15 is one of the ones I moved back yesterday. So I can rule out the fish, the food, the well's water and the routine because when given the right conditions, the fry survive after all those that didn't.

That's just the short answer.

 

[Andy Sager]

Well today, I lost the 2 female Guppies I was most concerned about. 1 seemed more like it had bloat than the other but the other definitely had delivery issues and the complications basically killed her I fear. Either way, they are gone. Thankfully, I have other females of those types but it's sure a shame.

On the bright side, the last of the test Angel spawns I moved had some good results. Today, there are a small number of fry from another Veil pair that are swimming and eating. So the final tally was 3 spawns with swimmers and 4 without. (1 of those 4 however got roasted with a bad heater. :^s) The good news on the 4 is that they are all from new(er) pairs and 3 of the 4 have already passed the fertility test so I'm sure time will change those results. Now I really need to start making room and possibly selling off some pairs. I currently have 19 proven pairs and that's just wayyyyy too many for this place. So if anyone s interested in pairs, just PM me.

 

[Bdonaldson]

Sorry to hear about your guppies Andy. on a happier note, glad you are getting some good spawns and swimmers from your pairs. Good luck with getting your numbers under control.

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[Darkfalcon]

If it were only that easy. I tried that and the problem was the ammonia level in the air here was enough that the nitrATE level was high in the fry water after only 48-72 hours and the fry still didn't swim. I'd have to be doing massive water changes daily and I just don't have that kind of time with so many pairs going. Even with a sponge filter, more ammonia going in means more nitrate coming out. Outside of the building, there is no ammonia or nitrates to deal with which is better for the fry. These 2 spawns are proof. But another example of why it's better for them to be out of the building, the fry from one of the tanks that remained in the building for 2 days after hatching ( and having air circulating in the building all day) are now showing signs of distress after only being exposed to the higher ammonia for just under 48 hours. ( ammonia was just higher than .25ppm.) I did a 100% water change on them and moved them next door but even that didn't solve the problem apparently. Those fry should have been swimming 2 days ago but they are just dying on the bottom of the tank. I've been using the same old proven pair as my "standard" and their first successful spawn since July of 15 is one of the ones I moved back yesterday. So I can rule out the fish, the food, the well's water and the routine because when given the right conditions, the fry survive after all those that didn't.

That's just the short answer.

I have to agree with this (I guess). My guppy fry and platty fry outside my house can even still survive in a very dirty water condition. But my molly frys inside the building won't even last a day. Both have good water circulation and air pump. While the guppy + platty fry tank is more crowded (more than 20 frys) while molly's tank is not as dirty as the platies and they're less than 15 frys per spawn. (The platty fry tank is the same as guppy fry tank. In other words, the platty and the guppy live together in the same dirty tank with fry food piling up in the bottom of this bare fry tank). And no death spotted so far for the plattiesand guppies. Tho I intend to clean it tomorrow morning because the water is very dirty (cloudy instead of greenish).

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[Andy Sager]

The new system of hatching the eggs in my house then waiting for them to free swim before bringing them back to the hatchery seems to be working well. I have 2 more large spawns that are now free swimming and a third that should start today or tomorrow. This last one I have my doubts with tho as there seems to be more dead bodies in the jar since they hatched. This is also from a pair where the female has yet to have successful living fry so she gets one more chance in a proven vessel and if it''s still a no go, she's outta here.
I now have 2 more spawns that should be hatching tomorrow so we will wait and see on them.

 

[Bdonaldson]

Glad your spawns are doing better. Sounds like you will have a lot of babies if all goes well.




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[Bdonaldson]

I had a very unexpected spawn by these two.


Here is there wiggles.



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[Bdonaldson]

Sorry to report that I lost the new babies to a heater malfunction. I was very disappointed but I will keep an eye out for a new spawn in the future.


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[Andy Sager]

Sorry to report that I lost the new babies to a heater malfunction. I was very disappointed but I will keep an eye out for a new spawn in the future.


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Sorry to hear that but it comes with the territory. Hopefully the next spawn will have a better outcome.

 

[Autumnsky]

Sorry to hear of the loss. Its hard. My last batch I gave to someone with experience and live food but haven't heard that any made it. The ones which were still in my tank didn't due to the other fish. I was still sad though.

At least your fish like each other and should make it happen again. They are a handsome pair.

 

[Bdonaldson]

Thank you both. It was their first spawn. So I am sure they will try again at some point.


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