Wigglers At Last!!!!!

[Karay]

I have a question for andy. since you keep your fish outside do you ever have to worry about stray cats or birds or any other animals trying to eat them?

That is a very good question and welcome to this thread.

 

[fishfriendly94]

Thanks a lot.

 

[Andy Sager]

His last spawn had about 25 survivers when I got home. Most of it was fungused eggs. I added them to the other pair's wigglers and they never even noticed the difference. His last 3 spawns, with 2 different females have been like this. He ate the other 2 before I could pull them. When he started a year ago there were only a few dead eggs in each spawn. I'll give him another try as you suggest. The 18 tall has the same footprint as a 10, but is like 21 inches tall. He has a palm sized body, and is a super veil.

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Try pulling a spawn and hatching it yourself. Use rainwater or distilled water if you can. I had tremendous results from doing this. Also, the temps had been an issue for me and might be for you as well? You may need to warm them up a bit while I had to cool mine down. In fact, the pair in the last video I posted with the spawn had about a 90% hatch OUTSIDE because the weather had turned a little warmer but not too hot during the day. Another pair in the same section that had a very good hatch rate inside, just had a spawn that only hatched out about 30% outside because the temps went back up over 82 during the day. Their previous spawn had a high hatch rate in the house.
This is why I always use the artificial hatching method to determine viability of a fish. I'm just really upset that I wasn't able to save any of the spawns from my pair of Silvers I got when I was in NJ last year. 8 spawns, no hatches now both fish are gone. If my indoor hatchery had been set up, who knows what would have happened?

Hope this helps

 

[oscarchic11]

Thanx!!! I actually have clean rainwater collecting in a tank outside as I was gonna use the tank to raise bloodworms and marbled crays outside this summer. I'll have to borrow some water from it next time they spawn. The tank is kept at 78-80 so I didn't think temp was an issue. Of will be funny watching the fry grow as I now have their fry with the gold/gold marble family. Also, I determined I was getting such variety from them because he is actually a leopard that lost its spots as it matured, as is usually the case with leopards. Also, because all his fry were veils, I think he is a super veil. If I can get a few more spawns of decent size from him I'll be happy.

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[Andy Sager]

I have a question for andy. since you keep your fish outside do you ever have to worry about stray cats or birds or any other animals trying to eat them?

No. You see, I sleep outside with a shotgun under my pillow so any animal that comes close to my tanks is history before they get there.

But seriously, I have 2 screened in porches that the fish are in (and with covers on each tank) and the 2-30 gals outside on the open porch have heavy glass hoods on them so nothing can get to them. I tried to use the 40 gal long tank as a reservoir for rain water but the pollen from my pine trees just putrefied the water so I just gave up on it. Once the building is up, it will be a good grow out tank for smaller spawns. I'm looking into larger vats, 75 - 100 gallons, (either pre-made or I'll make them myself) to grow out the majority of the spawns.
I want to again go unconventional for a Florida fish farmer and be totally indoors and NOT use dug out ponds to grow out the fish. This will cut way down on diseases as well as tank acclimating the newly caught fish. ( They called me crazy for doing this back in the 70s and they can call me crazy again but I don't care. I made the best fish on the market back then and my customers told me so, so it must be the truth )
As for critters, my biggest problem is, because I live out in the woods, (so to speak), I do get tree frogs that make their way into the tanks sometimes as well as snakes that make their way up the open slates of the floor in the back porch. I don't concern myself with them being there since all the snakes so far have not been fish eaters. I'm hoping they are there to eat the frogs lol My truly biggest critter problem is going to be ME wanting to keep all the fish and not sell any. " OH!!!! I like that one, and that one, that one has a nice pattern so let's keep that one too, HEY that one is really nice for a common so let's keep that one too. " (See what I mean, I'm a hobbyist first, then a breeder )

Hope this answers your question

 

[delfisherman]

i really hate how hard it is to raise angels. so i pulled the eggs from my blue pair as they became wigglers saturday. so i set my heater to 77 and over the weekend my parents turned the heat off and i didnt think to raise the heat monday and now that whole set is gone but my other three sets are fine at my fiaces house.

 

[Andy Sager]

i really hate how hard it is to raise angels. so i pulled the eggs from my blue pair as they became wigglers saturday. so i set my heater to 77 and over the weekend my parents turned the heat off and i didnt think to raise the heat monday and now that whole set is gone but my other three sets are fine at my fiaces house.

Might I suggest individual heaters for each tank? It's a little more expensive in up front costs but just one spawn that you sell should more than pay you back. This way you don;t have to worry as much with the room air temp. Just remember, my fish are outside and they survived the cold this winter ( and other fish the previous winters that killed off a lot of fish from the fish farms) because I have a heater in each tank and I blanketed them in styrofoam sheets. Now, with the warmer nights ( 50-60 degrees), I just have towels that I wrap around the tanks at night for a little extra insulation.
Raising Angels is not hard when you are set up properly

Hope this helps

 

[delfisherman]

it does have an individual heater i just set it too low because when the heat is on it raises the temp of the tank 5 or so degrees so it would have been right if the heat was turned on. last time i cooked the fry by having the heater turned to 77-78 and when the heat came on it made the temp rise to 82 or more

 

[Andy Sager]

it does have an individual heater i just set it too low because when the heat is on it raises the temp of the tank 5 or so degrees so it would have been right if the heat was turned on. last time i cooked the fry by having the heater turned to 77-78 and when the heat came on it made the temp rise to 82 or more

Okay, I'm a little confused If the heater was set at 77 degrees, and the heat in the house is off, the water should only go to 77 degrees. It's only the amount of time it takes to get there that is the issue with having the wrong sized heater. ( For example, I'm using 100 watt heaters on 10 gal tanks because they are outdoors and will heat the water faster to counter the cold outside air. I'd only use a 50 watt if they were in a climate controlled situation.) If the heater is set to 77 degrees and the heat is on in the house, the temp can only go as high as the temp in the house if it is set to over 77 degrees. The heater shouldn't raise the temp higher than 77. FYI: 82 degrees will not kill the fry unless the oxygen level in the tank is not high enough for the load at that temp but the temp itself is not the issue. My fry live in 90 degree water outside in the summer. I just have to raise the airflow and add airstones then.

My suggestion, get the right sized heater for that amount of water ( or even a little more water), set it at your 77-78 degrees and don;t care what the heat in the house is doing. Don't re-adjust. The fish tank should be autonomous to the room air. In fact, if your house temp is 82, then you actually should set the heater to 80 so that when the house temp falls below 82, say at night, the drop will not be as dramatic for the fish.

It really sounds more like you don't have the proper equipment for the situation. A heater is a heater but too small of a heater is a problem. Same with an airpump. If you are using a 20 gal tank, for example, use equipment that is rated for a 30 gal tank not ones that are rated "up to 20 gals. " Bottom line, I have fry in 1/2 gal jars for over a month that are growing because I do what needs to be done to make them live. When I mess up ( as I did last week and lost an entire spawn to an algae bloom) the fish die. I do it right, the fish live. It really isn't a hard thing to do.

Keep at it. Angels give you plenty of chances to get it right

 

[Andy Sager]

Thanx!!! I actually have clean rainwater collecting in a tank outside as I was gonna use the tank to raise bloodworms and marbled crays outside this summer. I'll have to borrow some water from it next time they spawn. The tank is kept at 78-80 so I didn't think temp was an issue. Of will be funny watching the fry grow as I now have their fry with the gold/gold marble family. Also, I determined I was getting such variety from them because he is actually a leopard that lost its spots as it matured, as is usually the case with leopards. Also, because all his fry were veils, I think he is a super veil. If I can get a few more spawns of decent size from him I'll be happy.

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Any updates?

 

[Andy Sager]

Well it has been a very frustrating event to get this building built. I was given info on getting certified Agriculture status with my indoor hatchery and that opened a whole can of worms. Bottom line: Spoke to 4 agencies, 6 people within those agencies, contractors and estimates and such and not one piece of dirt has been moved NOW, I'm preparing to be away for 2 weeks and I can't get anything done before I leave. Double What really got me was when I told my county appraiser about the hatchery, he said that nobody in our county has ever done an INDOOR hatchery so he doesn't even know how to appraise it. He was even a bit surprised when I told him how many fish I could (and did) produce in a building the size I want to build. I told him " Let me build it and I'll show you " No word yet on the permits or certification. I just hope these fish are worth this much aggravation!!! lol
My little ones are growing so much. My Golden Zebra experiment may have hit a snag but I have 4 fish from one spawn and about 12-15 fish from another showing the zebra pattern so hopefully they will also be more golden as they mature. We'll see
The fish from my first spawns ( way back on page..... (like page 2 or 3 lol ) are getting big. I've culled some but there are some nice Gold Marbles that have interesting markings. ( I'll try to post some pics when I return.)

I can only hope my roomie takes good care of the fish while I'm gone. She's not the most savvy of fish keepers so I can only cross my fingers and hope cause there is no one around to help her. We'll see........ to be continued

 

[oscarchic11]

Well, I left unexpectedly for a few days, right before my wigglers became swimmers. Got home this afternoon and peaked at the tanks to see a HUGE cloud of fry around gold/gold marble pair. The fry are currently tucked into the corner for the night. I fed them as soon as I for home, and there is a good layer of algae on the glass which is probably how they have made it this far. But now I'm home to take care of them. They are so tiny only egg yolk will work as food for now, but I'm hoping to switch them to BBS soon.

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[Mr Fisher]

Well it has been a very frustrating event to get this building built. I was given info on getting certified Agriculture status with my indoor hatchery and that opened a whole can of worms. Bottom line: Spoke to 4 agencies, 6 people within those agencies, contractors and estimates and such and not one piece of dirt has been moved NOW, I'm preparing to be away for 2 weeks and I can't get anything done before I leave. Double What really got me was when I told my county appraiser about the hatchery, he said that nobody in our county has ever done an INDOOR hatchery so he doesn't even know how to appraise it. He was even a bit surprised when I told him how many fish I could (and did) produce in a building the size I want to build. I told him " Let me build it and I'll show you " No word yet on the permits or certification. I just hope these fish are worth this much aggravation!!! lol
My little ones are growing so much. My Golden Zebra experiment may have hit a snag but I have 4 fish from one spawn and about 12-15 fish from another showing the zebra pattern so hopefully they will also be more golden as they mature. We'll see
The fish from my first spawns ( way back on page..... (like page 2 or 3 lol ) are getting big. I've culled some but there are some nice Gold Marbles that have interesting markings. ( I'll try to post some pics when I return.)

I can only hope my roomie takes good care of the fish while I'm gone. She's not the most savvy of fish keepers so I can only cross my fingers and hope cause there is no one around to help her. We'll see........ to be continued

Hopefully you can get it all squared away soon. I'd love to see it all up and running.

Safe travels sir, hopefully all will be well while you are gone. I suspect you'll come back to some more fry

 

[corylover]

wow I might try breeding angels right now I've been trying to breed a new pair of gouramis since my last male got his but torn up by the female shortly after my wrigglers disappeared. really frustrating.

 

[delfisherman]

My community angels are all laying again so my 5.5 is gonna have lotsa eggs in it

 

[Andy Sager]

Returned home from my trip this a.m. I took some losses while I was gone but thankfully, not from the pairs, only the grow outs. I've decided to not do much in the way of protecting spawns until I have this darn building up and running and can do it correctly. This first run at it was a good refresher coarse for me but the reality is I don;t have the proper space to do this at the moment and all I am doing is spending money, not producing money. I need to grow out the rest of what's left to replace or add to my breeders then it's off to the races.
I'll keep y'all posted on my progress

 

[corylover]

whish you the best of luck.

 

[JacobSpencer]

Yeeeee!! Good luck!

 

[Andy Sager]

Well, I was going to post a somewhat bragadocius comment but thought it better to post a learning post instead.

To all those out there trying to breed Angelfish and not having success, please read through this entire post again. Everything you need to know has been discussed in it by not only myself but other breeders having success. It really isn't a hard thing to do and I'll explain why in a minute.

This thread is a culmination of over 40+ years of experience in breeding and keeping Angels. That's just my experience so add up all the other contributors in this post and you have a huge wealth of knowledge at your keyboard. USE IT!!!!

Okay, to my point: I left my entire fish stock in the hands of my roommate who the last time she did anything with fish, was when we were in high school and she watched over my collection while I was on vacation. That was 35+ years ago. So to say she has no real experience in keeping fish would be an understatement. Agree? Today, I went out to look over my fish tanks since I really haven't paid them much mind since returning, due to illness. Now bare in mind that they were given a routine feeding for the past 2 1/2 weeks that was 1/2 of the normal feeding I use when home and no water was changed, temperatures adjusted or any other maintenance was performed over that time period. I looked through the algae filled glass ( in areas that were not covered in algae yet) and saw 1 pair with free swimming fry, 1 pair with wigglers and 1 pair with eggs. How can that be when we are always preaching maintenance and working on our tanks etc???? The answer, my friends, is blowing in the wind. ( Sorry, had a Bob Dylan flashback ) The answer is leave them alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Each pair is in it's own tank, not community tanks. Each tank is maintained the same way. Each tank provides the fish with the security, the atmosphere, the ambiance, the correct water and a place to spawn.
So if you are still having problems with your fish breeding, READ through this thread and fix it. Remember, I just had 3 pairs of fish spawn for someone who knows far less than you. See, it's not really that hard.

There's an old expression that goes "It's rarely the machine, it's usually the mechanic." Translated that means, the problem is rarely the fish. The problem is the way the fish are being kept.


I hope this helps somebody

 

[Xxsurdocxx]

So I have a question. My angels are on their sixth spawn. The first five times I did not intervene because I wanted them to get parenting practice, however they keep laying eggs on the intake of my power filter =[ I got them some new slate hoping they might move them once they hatch. I also removed all of the other fish to a separate tank to lower stress. Does anyone have an idea on what to do that might convince them to move the eggs/ spawn on slate the next time?