Wigglers At Last!!!!!

[New_b0401]

You will need to use a larger sized tank if you are going let the parents raise the fry. I would do a 36" long tank at a minimum. What you may find however, is that once the pair is ready to start spawning again, you will need to either remove the fry to another tank or risk the parents killing them off to secure the next batch of eggs. This is why most Angel breeders raise the fry separate from the parents.
All this info has been discussed within the thread. You would be well educated on breeding Angels after you read through the thread.
Happy reading

Thanks for the advice! Im currently on page 38 and have a LONG way to go haha. What will happen if I keep them in the tank they are in now? Im in high school so space and money is limited... I dont want to cause any of my fish stress... I have a 20 gallon long atm with some danios but im fine with rehoming them if its better for my angels... could I use the 20 long as their breeding tank or is it two short? One thing I haven't been able to find is how to determine age I know they should be between 12-15 months before I allow them to breed and that's based off size, but generally what size are they? I really want to breed my black angel pair but im not sure if they're old enough? Sorry I have so many questions I think I've almost takin in to much info haha

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[Andy Sager]

Thanks for the advice! Im currently on page 38 and have a LONG way to go haha. What will happen if I keep them in the tank they are in now? Im in high school so space and money is limited... I dont want to cause any of my fish stress... I have a 20 gallon long atm with some danios but im fine with rehoming them if its better for my angels... could I use the 20 long as their breeding tank or is it two short? One thing I haven't been able to find is how to determine age I know they should be between 12-15 months before I allow them to breed and that's based off size, but generally what size are they? I really want to breed my black angel pair but im not sure if they're old enough? Sorry I have so many questions I think I've almost takin in to much info haha

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#1 rule: Don't be in a hurry. Learn all of what you need to do, then do it. Keep reading

 

[New_b0401]

#1 rule: Don't be in a hurry. Learn all of what you need to do, then do it. Keep reading

Ok will do sorry just excited! This thread is so interesting and I've learned so much and can't wait to learn more! I saw you were in davenport in march wish I would've started a little sooner I only live 30min from there!

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[Andy Sager]

Ok will do sorry just excited! This thread is so interesting and I've learned so much and can't wait to learn more! I saw you were in davenport in march wish I would've started a little sooner I only live 30min from there!

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Excited is good. Learned and excited is better

 

[New_b0401]

Excited is good. Learned and excited is better

Ok ill try to keep my excitement contained and learn what I need to set up a good set up haha. It would be great if you could answer the age to size question though I wanna know if I need to wait or possibly even seperate this pair.

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[Andy Sager]

Ok ill try to keep my excitement contained and learn what I need to set up a good set up haha. It would be great if you could answer the age to size question though I wanna know if I need to wait or possibly even seperate this pair.

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Sorry about that. The only way to know the exact age of a fish is to know when they hatched. Size, unfortunately, is no longer a reliable method as there are many fish on the market that are multiple generations away from wild stock so stunting can be an issue. I buy my fish when they are about quarter to half dollar body size. I start breeding them when they are larger than silver dollar body size. If these are fish I have raised and I know their lineage, that may change because they may be smaller fish with extra large genes in them. Then I work with age more than size.

If you bought a pair, keep them together as they have already spawned together. They may take a while to recover from the move to your tank so for now, you can put a breeding site in the tank they are in and just see what happens.

Hope this helps

 

[New_b0401]

Sorry about that. The only way to know the exact age of a fish is to know when they hatched. Size, unfortunately, is no longer a reliable method as there are many fish on the market that are multiple generations away from wild stock so stunting can be an issue. I buy my fish when they are about quarter to half dollar body size. I start breeding them when they are larger than silver dollar body size. If these are fish I have raised and I know their lineage, that may change because they may be smaller fish with extra large genes in them. Then I work with age more than size.

If you bought a pair, keep them together as they have already spawned together. They may take a while to recover from the move to your tank so for now, you can put a breeding site in the tank they are in and just see what happens.

Hope this helps

Yes it does will my two koi be ok? They are about 3/4 size of my pair and are in the same tank I dont want them getting beat up to badly... only other fish I have in the tank right now is a 4in pleco

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[Andy Sager]

Yes it does will my two koi be ok? They are about 3/4 size of my pair and are in the same tank I dont want them getting beat up to badly... only other fish I have in the tank right now is a 4in pleco

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The only way to ensure they are okay is to have them in another tank or separated from the pair. Breeding Angels can be very territorial and if you have them in a smaller tank, this can be an issue. I have always said, "true breeding pairs should be in a tank by themselves". They don't need other "dither" fish to induce them to spawn and they make terrible tankmates in a community setting. It's been a rare occurance, in my experience at least, that a tankmate hasn't been harassed or injured by a spawning pair of Angels. That's just the nature of the fish. If I buy a known pair of fish, they go straight into a tank by themselves. If I buy unsexed fish, they go all together in a tank with no other fish. I never mix the two unless I am trying to split up the pair and at that point, I usually add a fish to the breeder's tank, not the other way around.

 

[New_b0401]

The only way to ensure they are okay is to have them in another tank or separated from the pair. Breeding Angels can be very territorial and if you have them in a smaller tank, this can be an issue. I have always said, "true breeding pairs should be in a tank by themselves". They don't need other "dither" fish to induce them to spawn and they make terrible tankmates in a community setting. It's been a rare occurance, in my experience at least, that a tankmate hasn't been harassed or injured by a spawning pair of Angels. That's just the nature of the fish. If I buy a known pair of fish, they go straight into a tank by themselves. If I buy unsexed fish, they go all together in a tank with no other fish. I never mix the two unless I am trying to split up the pair and at that point, I usually add a fish to the breeder's tank, not the other way around.

Ok good to know I dont believe this pair has every spawned the owner of my local mom and pop store(I believe that's what they're called?) Told me thay he noticed these two had paired off and the male was attacking the other male in the tank so they were seperated as a pair, but I will move them to a separate tank asap I have a 20 gallon long cycling atm that I plan to move them to so far there hasn't been any aggression so ill keep my fingers crossed.

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[Andy Sager]

Ok good to know I dont believe this pair has every spawned the owner of my local mom and pop store(I believe that's what they're called?) Told me thay he noticed these two had paired off and the male was attacking the other male in the tank so they were seperated as a pair, but I will move them to a separate tank asap I have a 20 gallon long cycling atm that I plan to move them to so far there hasn't been any aggression so ill keep my fingers crossed.

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Yes, that type of behavior is typical of two fish that have paired off. There will be some readjusting from the pair to their new surroundings so you may have a little time but keep a watchful eye on the pair's behavior. If one starts bullying the other fish, time to get them separated a.s.a.p. Also, try to duplicate the water conditions that the store kept them in. Their pairing in that water is an indication that those water parameters met with the fish's likes for spawning.

Good luck and keep reading

 

[New_b0401]

Yes, that type of behavior is typical of two fish that have paired off. There will be some readjusting from the pair to their new surroundings so you may have a little time but keep a watchful eye on the pair's behavior. If one starts bullying the other fish, time to get them separated a.s.a.p. Also, try to duplicate the water conditions that the store kept them in. Their pairing in that water is an indication that those water parameters met with the fish's likes for spawning.

Good luck and keep reading

Ok I will ask next time I stop by I know they keep their ph at around 7.8 and mine is at 8.2 im on well water and the ph is high... is that I big difference to the pair? Or will they adjust? Other than ph I'm not really sure what I can change or how to change it? are all eating frozen BS and flakes all looks normal so far so good

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[New_b0401]

Also I want to also make sure im breeding quality angels we only have one store around here that sells them and I've never seen any like some of the angels you've been describing and very few that would be considered grade a. In your opinion should I even be breeding these angels I dont want to support the down grading of angel quality. These pictures are a little clearer so I hope you can tell! If not sure what the blacks would be called they have 3 full stripes on both sides that you cant see in the pics very well, but I read that you were talking about it early in the thread so I thought I'd mention it. Also their gills look to have a dark bluish tint I saw something mentioned about that not sure if it was good or bad but just throwing it out there haha

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[delfisherman]

Its hard to get quality fish nowadays ubless you know who they are from and see the parents. Im raising blue zebras now from eggs from my pair and i know where im at i have the only breeding blues in delaware. I found if you can find a specialty in fish people will pay for good quality fish. Im doing all blues from lee gordon.

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[Andy Sager]

I would go to the Angelfish Society's website ( The Angelfish Society ) and look at what the standards are for what Angelfish SHOULD look like. If your fish don;t meet those standards, I would still let them breed and see if any of their offspring have the "right stuff". If they don;t either, I would consider breaking up the pair to see if adding additional fish to the line can bring out better quality features.
That's what I would do

 

[New_b0401]

I would go to the Angelfish Society's website ( The Angelfish Society ) and look at what the standards are for what Angelfish SHOULD look like. If your fish don;t meet those standards, I would still let them breed and see if any of their offspring have the "right stuff". If they don;t either, I would consider breaking up the pair to see if adding additional fish to the line can bring out better quality features.
That's what I would do

Ok ill look into thanks it so hard to find good angels when I only have one store to pick from lol

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[New_b0401]

Well I read through all the standards and turns out they both don't meet it... my female has a kink in one of her ventral fins right at the end and my male is missing one I think I will try and see what I get, but I will deffinitly be looking for a new pair. Darn the owner said they were an ideal looking pair guess he knows who the suckers are(; lol also he sold the pair to me for $20 good deal or not his full grown silver's are $15 a piece

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[oscarchic11]

He may have lost the fin in a fight, and injuries n also cause bent fins. One of my best males was a big leopard super veil with a severely crooked fin, but the fin issue was because he was nipped by tetras before I got him and he had to regrow the fin. All of his offspring have perfect veil fins. If your pair was fighting this may be the cause of the bent fins. As for the color, they are black zebras, and the green/blue cheeks are a desirable trait not sure what its called tho... good luck!!! I bred my pairs in an 18 tall, and a divided 55 where they had about 30g worth of space. But both my males are at least veiled, if not super veil.

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[oscarchic11]

I lost all my females in a recent move so I'm waiting for juvies to grow up and pair off so I'm not currently breeding, just waiting.

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[New_b0401]

He may have lost the fin in a fight, and injuries n also cause bent fins. One of my best males was a big leopard super veil with a severely crooked fin, but the fin issue was because he was nipped by tetras before I got him and he had to regrow the fin. All of his offspring have perfect veil fins. If your pair was fighting this may be the cause of the bent fins. As for the color, they are black zebras, and the green/blue cheeks are a desirable trait not sure what its called tho... good luck!!! I bred my pairs in an 18 tall, and a divided 55 where they had about 30g worth of space. But both my males are at least veiled, if not super veil.

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Ok great to know thanks! So sorry to here about your females): good luck with your new angels!

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[delfisherman]

Thats sad to hear oscarchic. I feel your pain i just lost a nice male breeder and am down a male for a female. I might have finally figured this breeding thing out though i have 3 spawns that are ranging from a week to a month old now that have over 150 babies .

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