2nd Time Around Fishless Cycling 120gal Tank

[Ann7667]

Super! And bring a shop vac!

 

[Ann7667]

Which kind of sand to use . . .

So now we've determined that my sand is bad - giving the water a low pH. I went to my LFS today to buy sand that is appropriate for the aquarium and they have these teeny tiny little bags of sand . . . maybe 1 pound or 2 pounds each. I said, " I need 100 pounds." And they said to go to Lane County Forest Products where they scoop up "sand box" or "play" sand and you haul it away in your pick up. Since I don't have a pick up, they said to go buy some 5 gallon containers and have them fill THOSE up. I doubt if I could pick those up.
I asked about the purity of the sand (I mean how bad can it be if kids play in it?) and they said just to bring it home and rinse it out a few times and it will be perfect for the aquarium. They pointed to a huge display aquarium in the shop and said - "That's play sand in there." (Well, if I remember correctly . . . the last time I asked about sand they said that the sand in that aquarium was pool sand.)
Does anyone else out there use play sand? I'm not trying to save money anymore by buying this, I just want to save time - if this is NOT good to use.
Other things are running amuck as well. . . . learning how to build a website, newsletter and blog (huge learning curve) and there are a lot of things to correct and change out.
So my solution right now . . . for all of this . . . is to buy some Dreyers Slow Churned Coffee Ice Cream, (which I have done) and go in my backyard to the garden swing, sit down, eat my ice cream (which I'm going to do because it's melting) and think about what to do about the blog, website and newsletter.
I'll wait to hear about you all about the sand. I would love to hear your opinion.

 

[librarygirl]

I've read on various forums that people do use play sand as it's cheaper and apparently big bags can be purchased at places like Home Depot for a reasonable amount. I also read something about it possibly leaching silicates into the water for a while but I don't think this has any detrimental effects. You'll want to rinse it out a LOT before you put it in the tank though. I also read that the sand can raise PH (although that might be a good thing in your tank! lol). I of course have zero experience and am just going by what I've read other's say.

Hang in there with the web stuff! It can be quite a learning curve but it's worth it in the end

 

[Ann7667]

Sand - beach sand or river sand

Thank you Library Girl! I called Lane Forest Products and asked if their sand had a lot of silicate in it (and Google said that the silicates in sand come from ground up granite) since your information warned me about that sand producing an environment that the algae would like. And they said that it comes from the beaches in Florence, Oregon. He asked me if I have a salt water tank or a fresh water tank and when I told him fresh water and that my fish mostly are South American river fish . . . he said that they also have McKenzie River sand! So maybe my fish would like river sand better. I'll go out there tomorrow and take a couple of jars of tap water, put some of each kind of sand in them and swirl it around and see what the pH looks like.
The river sand might be a good idea, although the beach sand is lighter in color and prettier.
Whatever I get, I will wash it really well before it goes in the aquarium.

 

[librarygirl]

Good idea about bringing jars with you to test, that's great!

 

[Ann7667]

Hello eco23, Library Girl and Deckape,
I have been testing my ammonia for the last few days and feeding ammonia to keep the BBs alive until I can get the new sand and change out the sand in my tank. My plan is to get the sand today (either Florence OR beach sand or local McKenzie River sand at Lane Forest Products) today. I will test the sand's pH before I decide which one to purchase, since the pool sand lowers the pH of my water even with a huge amount of cc in the tank.
SO, for the last few days the Am in the water has gone to 0 and I have dosed it back up to 4.0. (Cycled?) I have only tested the Am since I was going to replace the sand. But this morning I tested the pH and it is 7.2. What does this mean?
Does it mean I am cycled with a nice pH?
Or does it mean I am cycled with an unsteady pH that might crash like it has before? (which is why I am changing out the sand).
I'd really like to be finished.
But after all this time, I don't want to hurt my fish, by trusting that my sand is okay.
The other thing is, I'm sure the sand at Lane Forest Products is just scooped out of the river or off the dunes and would have to be washed. The LFS said that they have the Lane Forest Products sand in one of their tanks and gave me a tiny amount to compare with what I buy.
OR do I get my sand at a different fish store where I'll have to spend $100 on it to get enough for my tank (which will reduce my plant money for live plants in the tank)
Would appreciate hear from you all.

 

[eco23]

What have your nitrItes been doing during all this? Do they drop to zero within 24 hours like the ammonia is doing? *oops, I just saw you hadn't been testing it. We've got to know it though to see where your cycle is.

I think the question of the sand deserves a new thread. I don't have any experience with it, I know Deckape has gravel and I think Librarygirl does too. A bunch of members use it though, and I'm sure you can get some good info before running out and spending money on anything.

 

[Deckape]

What have your nitrItes been doing during all this? Do they drop to zero within 24 hours like the ammonia is doing? *oops, I just saw you hadn't been testing it. We've got to know it though to see where your cycle is.

I think the question of the sand deserves a new thread. I don't have any experience with it, I know Deckape has gravel and I think Librarygirl does too. A bunch of members use it though, and I'm sure you can get some good info before running out and spending money on anything.

I agree. If it has been processing 4 ppm if ammonia thru the nitrite stage and winding up with nitrates, then yes you're cycled. I would run the gamut of tests to be sure.

I have gravel, so I can't speak on the sand question. But....Eco sent me plants to try and they are living large in the gravel and my stock lights with 6500 bulbs...

Congratulations almost... I will be ecstatic to see your test results.

Good job Ann, you are very persistent! !!!!

 

[librarygirl]

Hi Ann, sorry for the delay, I just got your PM, I was in a meeting

Eco's right, I do have gravel and have zero experience with sand thus far. You can also try using the search function; I've done a site search for you using Google (I know the shortcuts ); you could also play with the keywords to get different results, but I started with 'sand types' and some relevant posts came up. Posting your own thread as Eco said should help you further.

As for the cycle, what's your nitrites (Eco beat me to that question lol)? If you're converting the 4 PPM of ammonia in 24 hours that's absolutely fantastic. But I'd like to make sure the nitrites are staying at 0 too. You could be oh so very close now!

 

[Ann7667]

I just measured everything:
pH=7.2
AM=0 (dosed up to 4ppm after reading)
NI=.25
NA=40
Temp=87
So, I'll also start a thread on the sand and see what people say.
Thank you!

 

[librarygirl]

I just measured everything:
pH=7.2
AM=0 (dosed up to 4ppm after reading)
NI=.25
NA=40
Temp=87
So, I'll also start a thread on the sand and see what people say.
Thank you!

You're probably very close, nitrites aren't quite 0 but getting there.

 

[Ann7667]

Thank you eco23, Deckape and LibraryGirl - I think I'm almost there and will start a post on the sand as well as google it. For sure I couldn't have done this without'cha!
But fishies will have to wait a few more days.

 

[Deckape]

You're probably very close, nitrites aren't quite 0 but getting there.

I am ready to do flips for ya. You almost got it! Not long now!

 

[eco23]

Ummm...this may sound like a stupid question...but did you say you're not keeping the other tank up and running? If so, you really don't need to wait for this tank to cycle. Just get the pH steady, make sure ammo and no2 are at zero (in general, not in a certain time frame), and move all of your fish over along with every scrap of filter media in their other tank. You've already established a ton of new bacteria in this new tank, and if you bring the media over from the other...boom, instantly cycled tank.

 

[librarygirl]

Ummm...this may sound like a stupid question...but did you say you're not keeping the other tank up and running? If so, you really don't need to wait for this tank to cycle. Just get the pH steady, make sure ammo and no2 are at zero (in general, not in a certain time frame), and move all of your fish over along with every scrap of filter media in their other tank. You've already established a ton of new bacteria in this new tank, and if you bring the media over from the other...boom, instantly cycled tank.

Wow, that's brilliant!

 

[Ann7667]

I appreciate that eco, but I can't use anything from that old tank because I have a terrible growth of black hair algae and it's all over everything. I don't want the filter media from that tank because I'm sure there are spores in there that will start up in my new tank.
Everything in that old tank is going to sit for awhile, although I'm tossing all the furniture in there and I'll empty and thoroughly clean the filter, toss the media and let it all dry out to make sure all that black hair algae is gone.
I just can't take a chance.
But thank you.

 

[Ann7667]

Numbers looking good!

Here are my numbers this morning.
pH=7.2
Am=0
NI=0
NA=40+
Temp=87
I believe I dosed it up to Am4ppm yesterday at around 9:30. This morning at 7am it was already at 0. Nitrites are at 0 for the first time in 24 hours.
SO, I'll dose it up to 4ppm one more time. Test it tomorrow and if the pH holds, the Am and NI are at 0, I'll get the aquarium ready to move the fishies in.
Yes?
On the sand, I understand from Mr. Z that I can get some silica sand at Lowes - that's where he got his. Then I can change out chunks at a time if the pH does not hold and not tear it down to do it. I can just scoop some out and put some wash and wet silica sand in.
On the diatoms that some say grows in the presence of silica sand, you also need to have high nitrates and maybe it more the high nitrates than the silica sand that makes that happen. Anyway, I'm not going to be 100% silica.
But, I'm almost there . . . right!

 

[tinkster87]

Them numbers look good! ... waits for Eco23 approval - with refreshes every couple of minutes

 

[eco23]

Yay! . I really thought that once we got the pH stable it wouldn't take long.

I agree that as long as ammo and no2 are both 0 this time tomorrow...fishy time!

As for the sand...I think there's a few options. #1- leave it alone. If it's holding stable now, the CC is doing it's job and you can live with what you've got. Just make sure you keep an eye on it over time. #2- switch all the substrate now. If you did that, it's likely to tack a few more days onto your cycle, but you can just keep doing what you've been doing for a few more days and everything will stabilize right back out. #3- what you mentioned. Personally I think it'd be a pain in the butt to switch substrates after the tank is stocked, if I was gonna do it, I'd rather do it with an empty tank.

Either way, congrats!

 

[Deckape]

hooooray!!!!! Great job Ann