Angel pair?

[Andy Sager]

Using any calcium based stone ( i.e. crushed coral) will help increase alkalinity but with the driftwood in there, you will be fighting an ongoing battle as it will keep trying to soften the water and lower the PH. I'd remove the wood. There are cichlid salts for African Cichlids that help raise alkalinity but if you use them, only add them to the water you are adding into the tank after the water change so that the level rises gradually. ( i.e. If you add 10 gals, use the amount of salt for 10 gals to that 10 gals before adding that water back into the tank.)
Sounds like the gravel from the tank may have been too dirty which is why you are having nitrite and ammonia issues. Most likely, you had some BB die off during the move of the tank. I would suggest you stop using the other products and after the water changes, just use Seachem's PRIME. What that will do is detoxify the ammonia and nitrite ( follow the directions on the bottle for the dosage) so that even if present, they will not harm the fish. This way, the existing BB has a chance to catch up with the fish load. You might also want to cut back on the amount of food you are feeding until the bacteria bed gets better established.

As for the female showing more tube but the orange guy not, I've had 2 pairs recently do the same thing but when the female started laying, the males came in and did their jobs. So this may not mean anything yet in your case.

With all due respect, anyone guaranteeing the gender of a non bred fish without having any external showing of a breeding tube is a little full of themselves. It's just not a guaranteeable thing to say. There are many fish out there with gender defining characteristics on the wrong genders. I've seen it personally. So while he might be right, the odds are that that he's right, it sure looks like he will be right..... but I wouldn't "guarantee" that he's right. Just sayin' ..... On to the fertility test

Hope this helps

 

[nikkik0720]

Thanks Andy. The tank substrate is sand, not gravel. That's what they had, and I just added some black from my aquarium to it when I got it.

All the levels are staying the same. I only got 1 25% change done because I ran out of clarifier and safe start, and I didn't want to put in plain tap water without having anything to remove the chlorine.

Spawning behavior question. The orange has been picking a little bit at the female. Nothing aggressive, but once in awhile he'll just give her a peck. No fins are harmed and she doesn't seem too concerned about it. It's not constant and he isn't chasing her. I noticed his lip was roughed up, and was worried they were lip locking and getting hurt, but I watched him scraping his mouth on the piece of shale. Should I remove this so he doesn't injure himself? Or is this just a normal minor injury that wont cause any problems? I tried to find the smoothest piece in the store, but it still has a slightly rough texture. I don't want him to hurt himself because of cleaning a spawning site.

The cory cats that are temporarily in the tank with the angels are also showing spawning behaviors (the emerald is often seen "ramming" the side of the one spotted cory, again nothing aggressive) I really want to get them out of the angels' tank, but I cant put them in the main tank because the lone resident cory is very aggressive towards them (I think he's too used to being alone), and the quarantine tank is currently housing a gourami with severe ich/fin rot and something else (little worm like things coming out in his poop) so I definitely do not want anything in there with him. I'm actually thinking of just euthanizing him since he can barely swim and doesn't want anything to do with eating.

As for the wood, I can't take it out. The cats are obsessed with it.
Could the shale be harmful, like with ammonia or alkalinity or anything like that? I'm trying to get a spawning slate, but shipping is so ridiculous to order it online.
Would something like this work? Amazon.com : Kaytee Chinchilla Chiller Granite Stone : Chinchilla Supplies : Pet Supplies
I have chinchillas and actually have a spare sterilized 'chinchiller'. I'm not sure if it'd work or not though.

 

[Andy Sager]

Thanks Andy. The tank substrate is sand, not gravel. That's what they had, and I just added some black from my aquarium to it when I got it.

All the levels are staying the same. I only got 1 25% change done because I ran out of clarifier and safe start, and I didn't want to put in plain tap water without having anything to remove the chlorine.

Spawning behavior question. The orange has been picking a little bit at the female. Nothing aggressive, but once in awhile he'll just give her a peck. No fins are harmed and she doesn't seem too concerned about it. It's not constant and he isn't chasing her. I noticed his lip was roughed up, and was worried they were lip locking and getting hurt, but I watched him scraping his mouth on the piece of shale. Should I remove this so he doesn't injure himself? Or is this just a normal minor injury that wont cause any problems? I tried to find the smoothest piece in the store, but it still has a slightly rough texture. I don't want him to hurt himself because of cleaning a spawning site.

The cory cats that are temporarily in the tank with the angels are also showing spawning behaviors (the emerald is often seen "ramming" the side of the one spotted cory, again nothing aggressive) I really want to get them out of the angels' tank, but I cant put them in the main tank because the lone resident cory is very aggressive towards them (I think he's too used to being alone), and the quarantine tank is currently housing a gourami with severe ich/fin rot and something else (little worm like things coming out in his poop) so I definitely do not want anything in there with him. I'm actually thinking of just euthanizing him since he can barely swim and doesn't want anything to do with eating.

As for the wood, I can't take it out. The cats are obsessed with it.
Could the shale be harmful, like with ammonia or alkalinity or anything like that? I'm trying to get a spawning slate, but shipping is so ridiculous to order it online.
Would something like this work? Amazon.com : Kaytee Chinchilla Chiller Granite Stone : Chinchilla Supplies : Pet Supplies
I have chinchillas and actually have a spare sterilized 'chinchiller'. I'm not sure if it'd work or not though.

Unfortunately, Angelfish sometimes do get a little nicked up and damaged when preparing to spawn. This is why you want the cleanest tank possible for them and why most professional breeders breed in a bare tank. It's much easier to keep pristine.
As for the wood and alkalinity, you are probably going to be fighting a bad battle that will cause more harm than good trying to adjust it. I would suggest ( no pun intended ) that you put the fish with the wood in a different tank or the Angels in a different tank. If neither is possible, keeping the levels stable will be more important than fixing them continuously.

As for breeding stones, Angels will use just about anything that is upright and at an angle, even the glass walls of the aquarium. I use red shale rocks all the time for spawning sites so that isn;t an issue and it doesn't have any effects on the water. You would be better off using that than the chinchilla rock you showed me. Just get the longest, flattest pieces you can find. If you get short pieces that have the right shape, just use something to prop them up higher in the tank. You can see a number of my shale rocks with spawns on them in my Hatchery thread and the original Wigglers at last!!! thread so it does work.

Once again, I would get and use Seachem's PRIME as your water conditioner and skip the other things.

Hope this helps

 

[nikkik0720]

Thanks. I'm sorry for so many questions and repetitive questions. I just want to learn as much as I can.

 

[Andy Sager]

Thanks. I'm sorry for so many questions and repetitive questions. I just want to learn as much as I can.

No problem There can be a lot to learn when it comes to breeding. Not all Angelfish behave the same. I"ll give you a good example: I had one pair, long ago, that would only breed on the red shale rock ( which is why I have a lot of it still. lol ) and even with these fish today, I will put a piece of red shale and grey slate for them to pick from. Once I see them spawn on the slate, I'll stop using the other rock. But when you have a pair that you know is a pair and they won;t spawn, you start experimenting with everything: water tamp, surroundings, breeding site options, etc. You don;t know why until they respond to something you've changed.

Hope this helps

 

[Ojay]

Guys,

I take this is a male angel fish? I've been searching for advice on is gender.


Ojay

 

[Andy Sager]

View attachment 275023

Guys,

I take this is a male angel fish? I've been searching for advice on is gender.


Ojay

Keeping in mind that not all fish today can be sexed just by physical appearance due to many fish showing opposite gender traits, the traits I usually use would in deed make this a male fish. HOWEVER, because one of the fish's pelvic fins is bent at such a bad angle, I would not like to see this fish be bred if the intentions are to sell the babies on the open market. This is a defect, most likely genetic which would carry this defect thru to future generations. In an effort to try to remove all the defective fish that are currently being offered today for sale, I encourage you to try to follow the standards for Angelfish as discribed at this link: TAS Library - Conformation Standards for Freshwater Angelfish

Hope this helps

 

[Ojay]

Andy, thanks. The info helps. I am new to the aquarium world & had done some reading on "how to tell the sex of fish" because almost always the 2nd question a house guest asks me is "is this or that fish male or female?".

No, i don't intend to breed the angel fish, or any other fish that I have. As for the defect, I got the angel as a very young fish (and small). The defect wasn't visible, but when it grew up & I noticed, I thought one of the other species may have become aggressive & nibbled more than necessary on the fin. This happened about 1 year ago with another Angel fish, an aggressive sword tail male fish took off one of the long fins. The Angel later died?.

Thanks for the info??.


Ojay

 

[Andy Sager]

Andy, thanks. The info helps. I am new to the aquarium world & had done some reading on "how to tell the sex of fish" because almost always the 2nd question a house guest asks me is "is this or that fish male or female?".

No, i don't intend to breed the angel fish, or any other fish that I have. As for the defect, I got the angel as a very young fish (and small). The defect wasn't visible, but when it grew up & I noticed, I thought one of the other species may have become aggressive & nibbled more than necessary on the fin. This happened about 1 year ago with another Angel fish, an aggressive sword tail male fish took off one of the long fins. The Angel later died?.

Thanks for the info??.


Ojay

I have to laugh. Why is it important for people to know the gender of the fish they have nothing to do with? I used to get that a lot myself. I used to answer that question with "Yes. It's definitely a male or female."
As for the fin, defects like this sometimes show later in life. I currently have a fish similar to yours that did the same thing. It was one of only 4 fry that survived a spawn and the parent died so I kept him as a backup breeder "just in case" I lost the siblings. I know, however, that it would be years of selective breeding to remove that trait from the line should I have to use that fish. That would also mean a lot of fish I would have to sacrifice because I wouldn't want to let defective fish come from my hatchery. It's just easier to not use them from the start.
It is a nice looking fish so just enjoy him (?)for the time you have together. That's what fish keeping is all about.

 

[Ojay]

I think I should start responding to my inquisitive house guests by asking them... "What do intend to do once I tell you?"??

Cheers??


Ojay

 

[Andy Sager]

I think I should start responding to my inquisitive house guests by asking them... "What do intend to do once I tell you?"??

Cheers??


Ojay

to that. Good luck.

 

[RRP1501]

Can anyone give me more insight?

The male Angel will generally have a rounder body shape and the female more angular. As well, the males forehead will be bumpier and the females' should be smoother.



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