Bettas in bowls, is it cruel????

[siva]

I see from time to time people posting that they saw a Betta in a bowl in a pet shop and thought the pet shop was being cruel to the fish so they bought the fish and put it into their 30 or 40 or 55 gal tank so it could swim around and be free. To all those people who believe they did good by doing this, I am directing this towards you.

I say to all those people, great job!

The labrynth organ is still there and the fish is still not a big fan of or equipped for fast moving water.

This absolutely varies from one fish to the next. I've had males that absolutely hated the filters flow, and those that played in it all day long. If you have a betta that doesn't like the flow, turn it down, or baffle the filter with a sponge or pop bottle. No biggie.

Taking them from the dirty water to put them into your fishtank, at least to me, is crueler! You are making this fish struggle to breathe because they must come to the surface to breathe.

Nonsense. If they are struggling, baffle the filter. Many won't even need that. Throw in some floating plants. They'll lay in them (surely just how they would in nature) if they want to rest at the top so they can easily surface. If they aren't laying up in them constantly, they aren't struggling to breathe. These fish are not weak. And don't forget, they use their gills too!

So here's a tip for the next time you see a Betta in a bowl full of dirty water thinking the store is being cruel

Here's my tip, don't buy bettas from those places. You might feel like your "saving" it, and trust me, I totally understand, but in reality you are just booking the order for the next two sad little bettas that are going to sit there in those filthy cups. They will never stop stocking them unless we stop buying them. Buy bettas from shops/sellers/breeders that keep the bettas in a fashion you feel is actually suitable for them. Those are the kind of businesses we should support!!

...These fish are meant for bowls and not meant to be in a fish tank with fast moving water.

I have an angel that hates the filter flow, does it then belong in a bowl? I have killifish that could easily survive in bowl, do they then belong in a bowl? No and no.

I think you are on a good point but missed by an inch or so
The rice paddies that you are talking about are a more modern version of the original wild paddies. These fish originally came from "ponds, drains, ditches and other sluggish waters" (as quoted from the Handbook of tropical aquarium fishes) throught Siam and not just paddies.

The bodies of water they originate from, contained more than a half gallon of water or your average bowl or jar.

So no, they do not REQUIRE swimming space.

What fish does? What fish have you kept in the same conditions that did not survive because they required swimming space?

As for heaters, I used to have a warehouse with over 1000 bettas at any time in various stages of growth or for sale. There was not one heater in any of them. What I did do was make sure that the air temp. never went lower than 70 degrees thereby the water temps never went below 70 degrees. You were close on this point but there is more than 1 way to heat the water. For the Bettas that are in my house, I use my central air/ heat to keep them warm or cool. No tank heater necessary.

I didn't have to keep warehouses of thousands of bettas to figure out they like heated water. Just a few of 'em and some time observing them under both conditions. Few of us have a home that remains the same temp every hour of the day every day of the year. I've kept many bettas at many temps, and I've said it before, and I'll say it again, they love a nice stable 80 degrees. If what makes them the most comfortable is of concern to you, that's what I'd encourage you to keep your bettas at.

Nothing wrong with keeping a place to hide in a bowl.
As I mentioned, I don't rely on gallonage, I rely on water depth. It doesn't make sense to make the fish struggle to get to the surface.

I have never seen any betta in any one of my community tanks struggle to get to the surface.

I would have to question the judgement of any hobbyist who would put a betta in a 20 gallon tank and observe it for a month and then, put the same betta in a bowl and observe it for a month and then, come to the conclusion that it preferred the bowl. This hobby can be a selfish one, but I ask you all to throw out the "facts" and go with your gut on this one.

 

[Discusapisto]

You prove my point. You are collecting WILD specimens that don't have the long finnage and/or man made characteristics that CHANGED those wild fish into poor swimmers. They can swim up to the surface for air with no problems.
Your breeding technique also requires low to no water movement which is not that much different from what I do with no filter until the babies are a bit older and eating on their own. I've been breeding Bettas this way for over 40 years and my Mentor did it this way for 20 years before me. There must be something to it

Your point about them staying in small areas was my argument that they CAN be kept in jars without it being a cruel method. As I saw in that documentary, just because the fish has the space to swim does not mean that they want to swim the whole area.

Lucky you that you were able to collect these wild specimens You got to see first hand how these amazing fish actually live.

Thanks for your input.

Let me start by saying my spellcheck really screwed my post up so sorry for my mis spellings lol! I just seen that I've bred long finned and also wild caught but I have gentle to little current in my tanks. Because I've seen their living conditions in all of their natural state and once a male finds himself a cozy territory he stays and defends it as long as another male doesn't evict him. Rice paddies flood in the rainy season which allows juve males to move around to new areas or older males places to go once evicted by a younger dominant male, so they do roam but only for reason not to fly around like a zebra danio. They appreciate some space but won't utilize it on a regular basis like other fish do. A great betta story was in last months tropical fish hobbyist magazine about US soldiers in Vietnam would spot mines in paddies because male bettas would build their bubble nest in the bells of the mines which one of the soldiers who kept bettas told other units about this and it helped save life's great article if you ask me.

 

[maxwellag]

...These fish are meant for bowls and not meant to be in a fish tank with fast moving water. I have raised Bettas in baby food jars so the size of the jar is not the issue. It's the cleanliness of the water that is. When you put a 3" fish in a 2" diameter container, that just doesn't work. But if you put a 2" fish in a 4" diameter container, it does. It just means you'll have a lot more work changing water. That's the only reason I use bigger jars. It delays, all be it not by much, the frequency I need to change their water.

Thanks for the reply

Bettas need a lot more swimming room than just a jar. Water quality is not the only concern. Temperature of the water is also.

 

[jetajockey]

The temperature thing is kind of a moot point because a stable room temp is just as effective as a heater. It's easier and much cheaper for me to heat my entire garage to a target temperature than run several dozen heaters. Most fish have a range of temps that they do well in, and we all have our opinions on what exact # that might be, so I'll leave that for another debate.

I think that the wild strain variants was kinda downplayed, there are tons of species with varying coloration from region to region, or even stream to stream in some cases. I see it all the time when I'm out collecting natives, and you'll notice it any time you really start digging into wild caught africans or any other species, they are often listed with their location of origin.

I've kept bettas in a few different setups and they are pretty inactive in the really small containers, they just kinda sit there. They can be kept healthy like this, and they'll even blow nests and everything, but the level of activity between a .25 gal cup or bowl versus a 5 gal tank is night and day. Does a fishes activity level determine it's 'happiness'? Who knows, I don't believe fish get happy.

One other fish I have been spending a lot of time with is pygmy sunfish. They are one of the very few fish, like anabantids (lacking labyrinth organ however), are adapted to living in anoxic conditions. They are commonly found in drainage ditches and puddles from high water levels or rainfall. They survive and can even thrive in a totally unfiltered tank just like a betta.

Taken from Banded pygmy sunfish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The banded pygmy sunfish is a species that lives in rather eutrophic conditions such as swamps and ponds. They are able to live in sedimentation levels that make oxygen availability less than 0.5 mg/L of water. This condition is termed hypoxia in which very few fish species can survive.

However, just because they can doesn't mean I would subject them to it.

So, I guess at the end of the day this subject, like many others, is a difference of preference and opinion.

 

[Monsweet]

That is really helpful!!!! We have a 240 litre tank and have a fighter in there :-/ always stays at the top of the water hiding in a plant! What shall we do? Leave him or move him into a small tank we have,??

 

[siva]

That is really helpful!!!! We have a 240 litre tank and have a fighter in there :-/ always stays at the top of the water hiding in a plant! What shall we do? Leave him or move him into a small tank we have,??

What type of filter do you have? If it's an HOB style it is easy to baffle, if you think the filter flow may be the problem. If you have a small tank that is around 18 litres or so, that would also be great for him. He may not be a good fit for a community. Bettas love to hang out in floating plants, but if he's always there, you never see him swimming around, and he isn't an old guy, than he's probably not comfortable.

 

[maxwellag]

The temperature thing is kind of a moot point because a stable room temp is just as effective as a heater. It's easier and much cheaper for me to heat my entire garage to a target temperature than run several dozen heaters. Most fish have a range of temps that they do well in, and we all have our opinions on what exact # that might be, so I'll leave that for another debate.

I think that the wild strain variants was kinda downplayed, there are tons of species with varying coloration from region to region, or even stream to stream in some cases. I see it all the time when I'm out collecting natives, and you'll notice it any time you really start digging into wild caught africans or any other species, they are often listed with their location of origin.

I've kept bettas in a few different setups and they are pretty inactive in the really small containers, they just kinda sit there. They can be kept healthy like this, and they'll even blow nests and everything, but the level of activity between a .25 gal cup or bowl versus a 5 gal tank is night and day. Does a fishes activity level determine it's 'happiness'? Who knows, I don't believe fish get happy.

One other fish I have been spending a lot of time with is pygmy sunfish. They are one of the very few fish, like anabantids (lacking labyrinth organ however), are adapted to living in anoxic conditions. They are commonly found in drainage ditches and puddles from high water levels or rainfall. They survive and can even thrive in a totally unfiltered tank just like a betta.

Taken from Banded pygmy sunfish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, just because they can doesn't mean I would subject them to it.

So, I guess at the end of the day this subject, like many others, is a difference of preference and opinion.

I don't know about you, but my room temperature in my house is about 60 right now.

 

[siva]

Right. Those of us with bettas that aren't in dedicated fish rooms are more likley to have temp swings. If I have 3 rooms in my house with bettas in them, it makes far more sense for me to add heaters to those tanks than to leave the heaters on in those rooms all day every day, even when no one is in the house.

 

[Monsweet]

It's an external 305 fluval filter, we have seen him now and again swimming in the flow but that's it! We have a small 4litre tank, would that do?

 

[Cilantro]

I live in upstate california and during the day my 4 gal betta tank has a temp of about 74 and at night it gets very cold like ten degree colder on the tank what can I do to try and stop this

 

[ocminpin]

It's an external 305 fluval filter, we have seen him now and again swimming in the flow but that's it! We have a small 4litre tank, would that do?

A 1gal tank is way too small for a betta. Absolute minimum 2 1/2g... Preferably at least 5g. My betta is in my 29g tank with my mollies and swims with them all day..

 

[ocminpin]

I live in upstate california and during the day my 4 gal betta tank has a temp of about 74 and at night it gets very cold like ten degree colder on the tank what can I do to try and stop this

You can look on eBay for a heater... I got a heater on eBay for $11 free shipping... Works great!
64-74 is pretty cold for tropical fish.., before I got some sense I had a betta in a bowl and i'd shiver when id put my finger in water in morning..

 

[corinne118s]

You can get a timer for like 10$ and set a heater to go on at night. But IMO just keep it on all day.

 

[Cilantro]

Well I have a heater but at night I don't think it can keep up

 

[Cilantro]

And nice leopard gecko I just bought one today(avatar)

 

[siva]

It's an external 305 fluval filter, we have seen him now and again swimming in the flow but that's it! We have a small 4litre tank, would that do?

Well, that's kind of what this thread is all about. There are varying opinions on the matter. IMO no, that is definitely not big enough. 18 litre is about the smallest I would go.

Is he struggling with the flow? How long have you had him in there?

I live in upstate california and during the day my 4 gal betta tank has a temp of about 74 and at night it gets very cold like ten degree colder on the tank what can I do to try and stop this

Add a 25watt Hydor Theo. It's adjustable so you can set it at your desired temp and it won't have those temp dips at night.

 

[corinne118s]

And nice leopard gecko I just bought one today(avatar)

Thanks I have two one blizzard. Wish I knew their sex! Good luck with yours they are so cute

 

[Cilantro]

Do chain stores sell these?

 

[corinne118s]

Do chain stores sell these?

Are you talking to me? I'll private message you so we don't hijack the thread

 

[Cilantro]

Add a 25watt Hydor Theo. It's adjustable so you can set it at your desired temp and it won't have those temp dips at night.[/QUOTE]

Meant to write towards this post