Log for cycling my new tank.

[zparticle]

Okay, so change the water now and test again, instead of waiting for tonight? Don't worry about being bossy, I need all of the advice I can get. Do I need to dose it up again with ammonia right away? 50% PWC?

 

[eco23]

I don't personally believe nitrAtes will stall your cycle since they are the end result of the cycle (at least the parts that take place inside your aquarium not counting the negligible amount of denitrification that occurs).

I'd let it ride until the 24 hours are up and dose back up the ammo and keep going.

The benefit of doing a few pwc's between now and adding fish are the ability to keep your nitrAtes in check so you don't have to do a total pwc before adding fish. It's easier to deal with when you have a smaller tank...but a friend of mine has a 125 and had a nightmare trying to get his nitrAtes down after cycling.

 

[Deckape]

I don't personally believe nitrAtes will stall your cycle since they are the end result of the cycle (at least the parts that take place inside your aquarium not counting the negligible amount of denitrification that occurs).

I'd let it ride until the 24 hours are up and dose back up the ammo and keep going.

The benefit of doing a few pwc's between now and adding fish are the ability to keep your nitrAtes in check so you don't have to do a total pwc before adding fish. It's easier to deal with when you have a smaller tank...but a friend of mine has a 125 and had a nightmare trying to get his nitrAtes down after cycling.

Yea that's what I meant. Thanks for clearing up the confusion. Good job again

 

[jetajockey]

I'd add fish in a day or two, but that's just me. The filters are intended to be used with fish. That's not just my opinion but also that of the guy that sells them.

It's not any different than swapping filter media from a cycled tank.

 

[jetajockey]

My apologies for not being on the +1 bandwagon, but hey, not everyone does everything the same way. Considering that I've tested this exact filter and even posted a thread log of it, I think I have a right to an opinion on the subject.

 

[librarygirl]

LOG: Day 11 (12 hours after re-dosing the ammonia)

I was just curious to see what the tests looked like half way through a 24 period so I just tested again, here are the numbers:

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrites: 1-2ppm
Nitrates: off the chart

So the ammonia is getting converted completely within 12 hours. I'd guess when I test in another 12 hours the nitrites are going to be gone.

Holy smokes! That's great! I'd tend to be cautious like Eco and really keep testing the filter for a week after you suspect it's cycled just to catch any early crashes. Wow. I'm telling my tank that it needs to take a lesson from yours lol

 

[eco23]

Due to the fact I enjoy the site and want to continue being a member, I'm going to stay out of this particular one.

What concerns me, seeded media or not, I have NEVER heard of a tank cycle this quickly at 4ppm using an Angels Plus sponge filter and I'm familiar with lots of members who have used them not only on threads, but also through tons of PM's I get. Like I said, it is scary fast to the point it worries me.

I will restate my personal opinion that due to the quickness this cycle seemed to show...I see no downside on erring on the side of caution and testing your bio-filter as extensively as possible before stocking.

Since it's obviously an advice forum, you can make any decision you choose...my personal opinion however would be extensive testing of the bio-filter.

 

[severum mama]

Please keep this thread on topic. There are different methods of finishing a cycle and everyone is entitled to an opinion.

 

[severum mama]

FWIW, I have cycled many, many tanks with a seeded filter and a small fish load. All it is, is just starting gradually with the amount of bacteria present and building up the bioload slowly, vs. the ammonia dosing where you're building up a big colony all at once. Either way will work.

 

[zparticle]

I really appreciate everyone chiming in on this. It gives me more food for thought. At this point I'm not sure when I will be adding fish. When I do I will probably do it slowly, assuming that won't cause problems, lol.

In the mean time I'll keep testing, I find the testing kind of entertaining, I'm into chemical sciences. I know, I'm a geek. lol

 

[Deckape]

I really appreciate everyone chiming in on this. It gives me more food for thought. At this point I'm not sure when I will be adding fish. When I do I will probably do it slowly, assuming that won't cause problems, lol.

In the mean time I'll keep testing, I find the testing kind of entertaining, I'm into chemical sciences. I know, I'm a geek. lol

Good job. Sorry for my indiscretion.

 

[eco23]

Deckape is a prime example of why the fast cycle alarms me. We both finished our first fishless cycles in exactly 21 days. I used a bit of seeded media, he used bottled and powdered bacteria products. Same time frame...drastically different results. My bio-filter has remained strong and never flinched, his completely crashed to the point it was almost never cycled and had a big loss of fish.

I also use seeded media to do fish-in cycles with small bio-loads (setting up QT's / hospital tank, cycled my Betta tank in about 5 minutes)...but the fact it seemed to cycle using 4ppm of pure ammonia in 10 days is what raises my eyebrow.

 

[jetajockey]

Due to the fact I enjoy the site and want to continue being a member, I'm going to stay out of this particular one.

What concerns me, seeded media or not, I have NEVER heard of a tank cycle this quickly at 4ppm using an Angels Plus sponge filter and I'm familiar with lots of members who have used them not only on threads, but also through tons of PM's I get. Like I said, it is scary fast to the point it worries me.

I have, through both personal experience and testing, long before I recommended it on this forum. No offense but do you really know everything about a product if you are basing your opinion on product reviews? Sure, it'll give you a good idea, but some concession must be made.

I will restate my personal opinion that due to the quickness this cycle seemed to show...I see no downside on erring on the side of caution and testing your bio-filter as extensively as possible before stocking.

There's nothing wrong with erring on the side of caution, but when a product is doing as-stated, it may be unnecessary. I know I transfer cycled media to new tanks all the time and put fish in right behind them, and IIRC you have done the same as well.

I agree with most of your methods, and in cases like this, I just have a different method of doing things. I have a fishroom with dozens of tanks in it, and hundreds of fish. I also have extensive experience with cycling products, and years of studying and working with the nitrogen cycle.

That said, the respect thing goes both ways, and I don't expect you to conform your methodology to match mine, nor mine yours. You have reviews from people using a product, I have tested the product personally, extensively, have plenty of reviews, and spoken directly with the manufacturers of it.

Does that make my opinion any better than yours or anyone elses? Nope, but it does make it just as valid.

 

[eco23]

I have, through both personal experience and testing, long before I recommended it on this forum. No offense but do you really know everything about a product if you are basing your opinion on product reviews? Sure, it'll give you a good idea, but some concession must be made.

There's nothing wrong with erring on the side of caution, but when a product is doing as-stated, it may be unnecessary. I know I transfer cycled media to new tanks all the time and put fish in right behind them, and IIRC you have done the same as well.

I agree with most of your methods, and in cases like this, I just have a different method of doing things. I have a fishroom with dozens of tanks in it, and hundreds of fish. I also have extensive experience with cycling products, and years of studying and working with the nitrogen cycle.

That said, the respect thing goes both ways, and I don't expect you to conform your methodology to match mine, nor mine yours. You have reviews from people using a product, I have tested the product personally, extensively, have plenty of reviews, and spoken directly with the manufacturers of it.

Does that make my opinion any better than yours or anyone elses? Nope, but it does make it just as valid.

I don't believe either of us are refuting each others views or experience...only advocating and advising our own.

I've got to read back through the thread to remember how many days the seeded sponge filter has been in there...but cycling 4ppm pure ammo in a matter of a few days doesn't even make you raise an eyebrow or at least say "wow"?

 

[eco23]

Okay, reread the thread...day 7 the sponge filter was added. So, in 3 days is there any way that sponge filter colonized enough bacteria to handle 4ppm of ammo in your opinion? Not arguing, actually asking.

If there wasn't an instant cycling product added, I'd be sending out congratulations and start my 4th of July drinking early...but you have to admit there's at least a curiosity here.

 

[Deckape]

Okay, reread the thread...day 7 the sponge filter was added. So, in 3 days is there any way that sponge filter colonized enough bacteria to handle 4ppm of ammo in your opinion? Not arguing, actually asking.

If there wasn't an instant cycling product added, I'd be sending out congratulations and start my 4th of July drinking early...but you have to admit there's at least a curiosity here.

Just make sure Your fish are gonna do better than mine did. That is my message and motivation.

 

[jetajockey]

Okay, reread the thread...day 7 the sponge filter was added. So, in 3 days is there any way that sponge filter colonized enough bacteria to handle 4ppm of ammo in your opinion? Not arguing, actually asking.

That's a ton of ammonia to process. That's been one of my issues with the fishless cycling method and using seeded filters, because a regular stocked tank isn't going to instantly drop 4ppm ammonia on the filter like that. It is amazing that it's processing that much.
If the seeded filter has a large, active bacteria colony in it, and it's doing it's job, it will be multiplying exponentially every 15-20 hours depending on tank conditions. This explains why you'll see a large amount of toxins day in and day out and then out of nowhere it bottoms out. Building the colony takes a long time, since it starts with a few, but since it grows at an exponential level, once the numbers are significant enough to impact the toxin level, it won't be long before it is wiping it out completely.

If there wasn't an instant cycling product added, I'd be sending out congratulations and start my 4th of July drinking early...but you have to admit there's at least a curiosity here.

I might've missed the part of when he used a bacteria booster product. I have really little faith in stuff like stresszyme, cycle, and even less in the powdered stuff, since it's not even possible for these autotrophic nitrifiers to have a spore form/dry form.

 

[Deckape]

That's what I like about AA... Nice folks, but passionate about this hobby.

 

[zparticle]

Okay, reread the thread...day 7 the sponge filter was added. So, in 3 days is there any way that sponge filter colonized enough bacteria to handle 4ppm of ammo in your opinion? Not arguing, actually asking.

If there wasn't an instant cycling product added, I'd be sending out congratulations and start my 4th of July drinking early...but you have to admit there's at least a curiosity here.

This was an active sponge, and it came with a bunch of water in the bag that was clearly full of stuff. The entire point of getting the active sponge was to has a huge colony of BB ready to go. I don't know, it seems to have worked at any rate. I'm going to go test my tank.

 

[eco23]

This was an active sponge, and it came with a bunch of water in the bag that was clearly full of stuff. The entire point of getting the active sponge was to has a huge colony of BB ready to go. I don't know, it seems to have worked at any rate. I'm going to go test my tank.

Right, but the point I'm making is that when they stuck the sponge in a bag and mailed it to you...it was in no way set to handle 4ppm in 24 hours. The "active" sponges are designed to add to your tank and very slowly stock fish so the bio-filter has time to grow and adjust to your bio-load. It's not a sponge so jammed packed with bacteria that it can handle anything you throw at it right away. When people use the seeded sponges from that company for fishless cycling, they are just that...seeded media. For the process you used, the media will give a huge head start and hopefully kick things into gear...but being able to handle 4ppm within 3 days is out of the realm of possibility IMHO.

The reason I'm alarmed at the speed of your cycle can actually be summed up by a direct quote from jetajockey earlier in the thread when you had mentioned using the powdered bacteria a couple times-

"Because it has the potential to give you false readings for one. The type of bacteria they use in powdered supplements especially is not the same kind that is naturally responsible for the nitrification process in an aquarium. It does the job, but very poorly by comparison, and does not sustain itself. With that in mind, it can possibly give you the idea that all is well in the tank, when it really isn't, and when it dies off you may have a toxin spike because of it.

There's also conjecture that it competes with the proper nitrifiers for a food source."

I'm not saying with certainty you're not cycled...I'm simply stating that in my experience it seems unlikely to have happened that quickly if you have strictly colonies of true nitrifying bacteria. That's why I'm personally advocating caution, and testing the bio-filter to ensure the quote from jeta about the "instant cycling" products giving you only the appearance of a cycled tank is not the case.