No PWC for a while, biggest mistake I've made?

[PAwrangler08]

Ok. So I have a 120gal FW community tank with pool filter sand and ecocomplete substrate. Long story short, I haven't done a PWC in a while. (Couple months) I haven't done a PWC because frankly, I'm scared to do it again. Last time something got all out of whack and ALL my fish (including bottom feeders and catfish) went to the top for a few days. I'm thinking something went out of whack when I was attempting to vac my sand substrate, because I had done PWC before without vacuuming the sand as much and nothing like this had happened.

Now since I have stopped the PWC everything has been fine, with the exception of my high nitrates. (For some reason I have always had high nitrates, but I believe I found he problem to be with my tap/well water. My well water has nitrates in it) So i have been just topping my tank off. No problems with any of my stock. Everyone seems happy. Parameters are stable. pH could be a little higher, but no big pH swings. No ammonia, no nitrites. But like I said nitrates are high, obviously to be expected. Now my tank is also planted, minimally. But haven't had the best luck with plants, but I'm thinking my light isn't sufficient enough.

Now here's my dilemma, do I start to do PWC again or do I keep what I'm doing? I'm afraid with my substrate I'm going to mess things up again like I did last time. I wouldn't be opposed to changing my substrate, although it would have to be something ok with a fire eel. I don't mind do PWC at ALL. I'm just afraid of killing my stock off. I'm not sure if there are gasses or something trapped in my sand substrate or what was going on at the time.

Any help is appreciated. And sorry for the huge post.

-Blair

 

[Rivercats]

You really need to start doing WC's again. But since it's been awhile you need to start off with smaller WC's until you build up to 50% WC's weekly. I'd do a 25% WC then maybe 3 days later do another. Also if you stir up the sand or vacuum it only do a portion of the tank with each WC. Don't try cleaning all the substrate at once. The problem with not doing WC's is there are all manner of toxins that build up in water, not just nitrates. WC's dilute all toxins and help keep them from building up. You also might want to consider adding some Malaysian trumpet snails as they live in the substrate during the day and only come out at night. They aid in aerating the substrate.

 

[PAwrangler08]

You really need to start doing WC's again. But since it's been awhile you need to start off with smaller WC's until you build up to 50% WC's weekly. I'd do a 25% WC then maybe 3 days later do another. Also if you stir up the sand or vacuum it only do a portion of the tank with each WC. Don't try cleaning all the substrate at once. The problem with not doing WC's is there are all manner of toxins that build up in water, not just nitrates. WC's dilute all toxins and help keep them from building up. You also might want to consider adding some Malaysian trumpet snails as they live in the substrate during the day and only come out at night. They aid in aerating the substrate.

Well I was only doing 25%. Maybe that was my original problem. I will try with only a small area of the tank with each PWC for the sand. I have never heard about those snails, but I'm not sure how long they would last in my tank with my omnivores I've had small snails in my tank (accidentally) and have snails in my canister and HOB filters, but nothing showing in the tank. Won't snails eat my plants as well? Even if they do, I think I might try this to help with my tank. I'd rather start over with plants than have to start over with fish.

 

[Supergummy]

I do a 25% water change every 5 days. It's a little low but it makes my tank stable enough

 

[treemanone2003]

IME, because of the type of fish I keep, WC's are the key to a happy and healthy environment. My QT gets 80% twice daily, my 40 gets 50% daily and 90% weekly and my girl does her 10 g every other day of at least 50% but closer to 70% when I'm lurking about. Fortunately, my parameters are always zero, (from the tap and in the tank) I'm on municipal water and do not need to age it.

 

[PAwrangler08]

I wonder if I should use spring water from a local spring water dispenser instead of my tap water? It has to be pointless to be doing water changes with water that already has nitrates in it.

 

[Rivercats]

Well I was only doing 25%. Maybe that was my original problem. I will try with only a small area of the tank with each PWC for the sand. I have never heard about those snails, but I'm not sure how long they would last in my tank with my omnivores I've had small snails in my tank (accidentally) and have snails in my canister and HOB filters, but nothing showing in the tank. Won't snails eat my plants as well? Even if they do, I think I might try this to help with my tank. I'd rather start over with plants than have to start over with fish.

Since MTS stay under the substrate during the day and usually only come out when the lights are out they tend to not get eaten as much, if at all. You only need a few to start and they will breed monthly if there is adequate food. They are also livebearers. Many people freak out if they look in their tanks during the night when they have them since there are often a lot in the substrate if there is a lot of food available. Numbers decrease when food sources are low. They are not plant eaters.

It is hard when you have tap water high in nitrates but in a large tank using all RO or even spring water is not cheap or fun to mess with. In your instance I would concentrate on adding as many nitrate loving plants as possible. There are products you can use but again in a large tank they can be costly. Personally I'd try adding a ton of nitrate loving plants and see after a month of two if your seeing any difference in nitrate levels. Also remember that a substrate laden with detritus and even very dirty filters can cause nitrate to remain high in a tank. What ppm of nitrates do you have in your tap water?

 

[PAwrangler08]

Since MTS stay under the substrate during the day and usually only come out when the lights are out they tend to not get eaten as much, if at all. You only need a few to start and they will breed monthly if there is adequate food. They are also livebearers. Many people freak out if they look in their tanks during the night when they have them since there are often a lot in the substrate if there is a lot of food available. Numbers decrease when food sources are low. They are not plant eaters.

It is hard when you have tap water high in nitrates but in a large tank using all RO or even spring water is not cheap or fun to mess with. In your instance I would concentrate on adding as many nitrate loving plants as possible. There are products you can use but again in a large tank they can be costly. Personally I'd try adding a ton of nitrate loving plants and see after a month of two if your seeing any difference in nitrate levels. Also remember that a substrate laden with detritus and even very dirty filters can cause nitrate to remain high in a tank. What ppm of nitrates do you have in your tap water?

Ahhhh ok. Now the problem is trying to find MTS.

Well I can get spring water for like 25 cents a gallon maybe. So that's not a big expense. The only PITA is going to be transporting it and heating it up to tank temp. I don't like to use products either. I want to do plants. But doesn't seem like my plants last too long. Any suggestions for nitrate loving plants? Hornwort maybe? I would love to have a heavily planted tank, but I believe e lights I have aren't sufficient enough and may be my problem.

Tap water nitrates I believe were about 20 ppm when I checked. It was pretty high. But unfortunately my tank is even higher than that.

 

[Rivercats]

People with planted tanks add nitrates to keep their tanks from 10-20ppm normally and those who dose EI often have much higher levels of nitrates. If you have low lighting your best bet is to use floating plants. I've found Frogbit and Water Lettuce both do well under lower lighting and both like nitrates. You could also probably do okay planting a bunch of Water Sprite. It can be left to grow quite large, even out of the water in open top tanks and also uses a lot of nitrates. Something else that can help is to use some liquid carbon in the tank once you have those plants as that will aid the plants with photosynthesis and growth which will allow the plants to use more nutrients from the water. You could also possibly try some Java Moss tied onto DW or rocks as well.

If you want to use liquid carbon I would suggest buying Metricide 14 Day Solution. A gallon online is about $20 and is twice the strength as Excel or other name brands of liquid carbon. You can use it full strength from the bottle at half the amount as other liquid carbons. I would suggest 1/2ml of full strength Metricide 14 for every 2-3 gallons unless you have delicate shrimp or fish.

 

[PAwrangler08]

People with planted tanks add nitrates to keep their tanks from 10-20ppm normally and those who dose EI often have much higher levels of nitrates. If you have low lighting your best bet is to use floating plants. I've found Frogbit and Water Lettuce both do well under lower lighting and both like nitrates. You could also probably do okay planting a bunch of Water Sprite. It can be left to grow quite large, even out of the water in open top tanks and also uses a lot of nitrates. Something else that can help is to use some liquid carbon in the tank once you have those plants as that will aid the plants with photosynthesis and growth which will allow the plants to use more nutrients from the water. You could also possibly try some Java Moss tied onto DW or rocks as well.

If you want to use liquid carbon I would suggest buying Metricide 14 Day Solution. A gallon online is about $20 and is twice the strength as Excel or other name brands of liquid carbon. You can use it full strength from the bottle at half the amount as other liquid carbons. I would suggest 1/2ml of full strength Metricide 14 for every 2-3 gallons unless you have delicate shrimp or fish.

Well my nitrates are at 80 ppm at best. I think low light is best to describe my lighting. I have 3 30" fluorescent T12 lights. I do plan on getting T5HO eventually though. I would love to have frogbit or water lettuce (pad looking plant) but was told by my LSF that I don't have the right lighting for those kind of plants. Water sprite im had, but ended up dying. Didn't have it very long. Maybe 2 months. And I have no idea why it died. I have never used liquid carbon, or any ferts for that matter. Ferts always seemed to complicated for me, and hated the idea of adding chemicals to my tank. As for java moss tied to DW and rocks, always liked that look.

I will take you up on that liquid carbon and give it a whirl. Most of my fish are pretty hearty. If needed I can post my stocking. (Which may seem a bit off the wall, but works)

 

[Rivercats]

I wouldn't use much if any liquid carbon if you only add frogbit or water lettuce. Both of these plants tolerate lower light but also remember that they float right under the lighting in your tank so they usually do just fine. You can usually find both of these on aquabid pretty cheap.

 

[PAwrangler08]

I wouldn't use much if any liquid carbon if you only add frogbit or water lettuce. Both of these plants tolerate lower light but also remember that they float right under the lighting in your tank so they usually do just fine. You can usually find both of these on aquabid pretty cheap.

Just let them float until roots reach the substrate? My tank is 24" deep.

I have been toying the idea about a refugium or sump and also doing plants in there?

 

[PAwrangler08]

That's what I have had the longest and has lasted. I forget what it's called.

 

[PAwrangler08]

But back to the PWC quick. Safe to say, small PWC (25%) with spring water, once every 3 days for a week? Then maybe a 50%?

Also get some MTS and frogbit, water lettuce to eat up some of the nitrates?

Liquid carbon then to help my other plants?

 

[Sk3lly]

Ever thought of investing in your own RODI water unit. Will allow you to produce as much 'pure' water as you like

 

[PAwrangler08]

Ever thought of investing in your own RODI water unit. Will allow you to produce as much 'pure' water as you like

To be honest, no not really.

 

[Sk3lly]

A RODI unit will remove any ammonia, chlorine, nitrates. Also any heavy metals such as copper. Will also remove dissolved solids and any bacteria that are in the water. Good piece of kit. You should research it

 

[PAwrangler08]

A RODI unit will remove any ammonia, chlorine, nitrates. Also any heavy metals such as copper. Will also remove dissolved solids and any bacteria that are in the water. Good piece of kit. You should research it

Until I am able to do RODI water would it be safe to use spring water? Or should I go buy some other type of bottles water? I was going to get the spring water from a spring water dispenser.

 

[Sk3lly]

I dont know much about spring water tbh

 

[treemanone2003]

Until I am able to do RODI water would it be safe to use spring water? Or should I go buy some other type of bottles water? I was going to get the spring water from a spring water dispenser.

I'm not sure about spring water either. I would get some of each and test it before making an investment of too much into it so you know what the parameters of of those particular brands.