Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Freshwater > Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 05-24-2013, 06:37 PM   #21
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Andy Sager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lake Wales, Florida
Posts: 6,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouser View Post
I see that you decide to be arrogant about your experience, it doesn't change the fact that you are wrong about many things.

Betta fish cannot "thrive" in oxygen depleted water, they just can't.

Labyrinth fish are not born with functional labyrinth organs. The development of the organ is gradual and most labyrinth fish breathe entirely with their gills and develop the labyrinth organs when they grow older ( I can provide a citation if you so require it with your "expert" experience)

And you seem to underestimate the size of these rice fields, they are ankle deep most of the year, plus with the rain that falls in those tropical regions there is more than enough air exchange and water replenishment to sustain the fish.

Just because you have seen breeding set ups in Thailand doesn't mean that the fish thrive in those set ups! For the best part the methods used in any kind of battery farming is far from what the animal needs and are usually done so in the cheapest way (no need for fancy equipment if you're being cheap)


Also the fact you say they can thrive in bowls means you're 40 years of experience is questionable to me.
With all due respect, I was not trying to be arrogant at all but to educate you on some the things that you wrote that were questionable as to be factual.
In this case, we are not talking about juvenile fish that have not formed the labrynth so that argument is moot.

As to bowl sizes in a store vs the bowl size the OP was going to use, there is a huge water volume difference.

And to abide by the OP's wishes, I wish to not continue this conversation any further. I've made my points You can agree or disagree, it's your choice
__________________

__________________
Andy Sager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 06:13 AM   #22
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: U.S.
Posts: 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearly View Post

I haven't been doing this for very long (few months only) but this is what I found: 1) the big bowls 2 gallon or bigger are a pain to keep clean (water changing was a big hassle and trying to keep things looking pretty, planted and arranged on driftwood live plants, gravel or whatever you have for substrate) took lot of time and very messy, 2) got smallest heater (don't recall how many watts) but it was one of those betta heaters and good thing I put it in during time I was there to watch the temperature bcs afraid that had I left it there it would cook my poor boy. Those 2 things alone was what prompted me to quickly move my guys to small but filtered tanks with lights. I find that the light alone keeps the water temp steady at 78-80 F at all times. Now, I live in warm climate too so no issues with the outside environment getting cold. I love the filters bcs even in my tiny tanks once things get populated they seem to help sustain a little ecosystems for the fish plus the little pump keeps things moving but it's not powerful so bettas don't have to fight the current. My favorite and ideal habitat for my betta is those "bookshelf tanks" that Petco sells. They are 5.5 or 6.6 gal, something like that. They are short (so not deep vertically) but long giving your fish ample room for swimming. I got one of those off craigslist and love it!!!! I'll be getting more as I find them. My understanding is that bettas like it better when it's longer and not too deep. There! There is my 5 cents, again this is just my own experience and by no means do I claim to be an expert on the issue, to the contrary! Still knee deep in my research and asking people questions, and lots of them Good luck with your bowl. If you have just one it may not be too bad. I had 4 of them, planted! It got to be way too much headache for me. Now my little transition tanks are so much easier and I can relax more enjoying my fish while waiting to upgrade
Ok I might have not made myself clear about the bookshelf tank, those that I'll be putting my boys in one by one (5.5 or 6.6 gal) are long horizontally but not deep, lots of room to swim! Sorry
__________________

__________________
Pearly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 09:53 AM   #23
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 10
I have a betta in a 2.75 gallon bowl. Plenty of room for a couple of plants and driftwood. This place sells a nice one, for not too much money. I also added a heater (but not the bowl kind by Zoo Med - I had one and it pooped out after 4 months).

Nature’s Pure Glass Aquarium Sphere 12″ Dia x 10″ Height, 2.75 Gallons. | Fish Pet Equipments
__________________
QuietBloom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 10:15 AM   #24
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oohitsae View Post
My bettas stop using their gills entirely after about 4 months of age except when they come to the surface to take a breathe.
Myth: Because bettas do not use their gills, there is no need to oxygenate their water.

Reality: While bettas do have a labrynth organ that permits them to breathe air, this does not mean that they do not gill breathe, nor does it mean that there are not risks to keeping them in oxygen deficient water. While healthy bettas do not demand aeration to stay healthy, aeration should always be provided during medical treatments, if the fish is suffering gill distress, or if the fish is having trouble surfacing. Oxygen poor water contributes to anaerobic bacterial blooms, stresses the gills, and in extreme cases of weak fish who can not surface, may result in death. The adaptations bettas have evolved to survive in stagnant water are not an excuse for improper care during sickness.

Betta Care 101 - Myth vs. Reality Page 3
__________________
QuietBloom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 11:50 AM   #25
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Andy Sager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lake Wales, Florida
Posts: 6,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuietBloom View Post
Myth: Because bettas do not use their gills, there is no need to oxygenate their water.

Reality: While bettas do have a labrynth organ that permits them to breathe air, this does not mean that they do not gill breathe, nor does it mean that there are not risks to keeping them in oxygen deficient water. While healthy bettas do not demand aeration to stay healthy, aeration should always be provided during medical treatments, if the fish is suffering gill distress, or if the fish is having trouble surfacing. Oxygen poor water contributes to anaerobic bacterial blooms, stresses the gills, and in extreme cases of weak fish who can not surface, may result in death. The adaptations bettas have evolved to survive in stagnant water are not an excuse for improper care during sickness.

Betta Care 101 - Myth vs. Reality Page 3
There seems to be a number of Betta Myth/ Truth articles out there so you need to beware of what you read unfortunately. What are the qualifications of the authors of these articles comes into play here. Are they just regurgitating false info from the internet? Opinions? Practicle experience? Scientific data sources? etc.
I was reading one last night that stated that an experiment was done by removing the labrynth organ from the fish to force it only to breathe from properly oxygenated water. The fish in the study did not survive making one assume that it's necessary for the fish to breathe surface air in order to survive.
In my own experience, (and this is just one example) I had a display of Bettas in a store I worked at and one of the employees left some plastic bags over the containers we kept the Bettas in by accident. Overnight, 2 bags slipped into the containers and completely covered the surface of 2 of the fish. (We did have some loose white mice in the store. The hazards of supplying snake food They may have caused the bags to fall in?) When we came to work the next day, those were the only dead Bettas in the bunch. Just so happened I knew the history of those fish as they came from my fish room. That fact eliminated a lot of potentials as to why the fish might have died. They were young, strong fish. So, can one assume that as adults, Bettas MUST be able to come to the surface to breathe and that they do not extract enough oxygen from the water to survive? While this conclusion is based on experience and not "science", the coincidence is striking don't you think?

Now this all is not to say that points in that article aren't correct. Oxygen depleted water is NOT the best way of keeping Bettas healthy which is why I change my bowls every 2-3 days. The fish have not used up all the oxygen in 1/2gal of water in that amount of time. (I had water tested for that many years ago with a gaschromatigraph machine. The novelties of having friends in the science dept of U.M. )

So a conversation was started in response to a comment that the water would be aerated and attain movement with an air stone in the bowl. This, as we know, is not the only way to oxygenate the water and counter to what the OP wanted to have in his Betta display. Bettas in general are not big fans of water movement so it would be difficult to keep the fish "comfortable"in a bowl with an air stone, moving enough water to aerate it, in that size container, don't you think?
\

Just some thoughts
__________________
Andy Sager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 11:57 AM   #26
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
patrickriley2010's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 1,043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Sager View Post

There seems to be a number of Betta Myth/ Truth articles out there so you need to beware of what you read unfortunately. What are the qualifications of the authors of these articles comes into play here. Are they just regurgitating false info from the internet? Opinions? Practicle experience? Scientific data sources? etc.
I was reading one last night that stated that an experiment was done by removing the labrynth organ from the fish to force it only to breathe from properly oxygenated water. The fish in the study did not survive making one assume that it's necessary for the fish to breathe surface air in order to survive.
In my own experience, (and this is just one example) I had a display of Bettas in a store I worked at and one of the employees left some plastic bags over the containers we kept the Bettas in by accident. Overnight, 2 bags slipped into the containers and completely covered the surface of 2 of the fish. (We did have some loose white mice in the store. The hazards of supplying snake food They may have caused the bags to fall in?) When we came to work the next day, those were the only dead Bettas in the bunch. Just so happened I knew the history of those fish as they came from my fish room. That fact eliminated a lot of potentials as to why the fish might have died. They were young, strong fish. So, can one assume that as adults, Bettas MUST be able to come to the surface to breathe and that they do not extract enough oxygen from the water to survive? While this conclusion is based on experience and not "science", the coincidence is striking don't you think?

Now this all is not to say that points in that article aren't correct. Oxygen depleted water is NOT the best way of keeping Bettas healthy which is why I change my bowls every 2-3 days. The fish have not used up all the oxygen in 1/2gal of water in that amount of time. (I had water tested for that many years ago with a gaschromatigraph machine. The novelties of having friends in the science dept of U.M. )

So a conversation was started in response to a comment that the water would be aerated and attain movement with an air stone in the bowl. This, as we know, is not the only way to oxygenate the water and counter to what the OP wanted to have in his Betta display. Bettas in general are not big fans of water movement so it would be difficult to keep the fish "comfortable"in a bowl with an air stone, moving enough water to aerate it, in that size container, don't you think?
\

Just some thoughts
That was also preventing any oxygen from entering the bowl and locking in the c02 !!! So that could have happened to any fish !
__________________
Fish
patrickriley2010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 12:26 PM   #27
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Andy Sager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lake Wales, Florida
Posts: 6,137
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickriley2010 View Post
That was also preventing any oxygen from entering the bowl and locking in the c02 !!! So that could have happened to any fish !
Granted, however, wouldn't you find it interesting that these 2 circumstances with depriving Bettas from breathing surface air ended in dead Bettas? And one instance had well oxygenated water as the control so CO2 was not to blame.
__________________
Andy Sager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 10:40 PM   #28
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
fishfan88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 729
Well thanks for all your help guys... And just so ya know, I'm actually a she not a he I might end up doing this soon.
__________________
fishfan88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2013, 07:24 AM   #29
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
fishfan88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 729
Oh, would I need to cycle the bowl?
__________________
fishfan88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2013, 07:41 AM   #30
Aquarium Advice Addict
 
Scouser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Scouser on tour, Scarborough UK
Posts: 1,828
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishfan88 View Post
Oh, would I need to cycle the bowl?
Ahh you're a girl? That'll make replying a little easier as I won't have you use "OP" all the time lol.

And Nope, cycling is a process of growing bacteria in your filter, seeing as you won't have a filer you won't need to cycle.

You will need to do multiple PWC a week to keep the toxic levels down though
__________________
Scouser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2013, 08:21 PM   #31
Aquarium Advice FINatic
 
fishfan88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 729
I'll prob do 2 a week and have the bowl planted, but not so much that betta can't swim around easily
__________________
fishfan88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2013, 07:39 PM   #32
Aquarium Advice Freak
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: U.S.
Posts: 258
Great! Good luck and keep us posted on your progress. My bowls were all planted but they were small (only 1 gal each) and I was so worried for the fish I tested daily, with big wc's twice a week after my lfs told me to quit complete wc's but rather dump as much as possible trying to leave substrate and stuff undisturbed (that was hard to do with those bowls) I did manage to keep ammonia at 0.25 and below but it was way too anxiety inducing for me. I know of many people who are very successful in keeping bettas in planted bowls, I was just not one of them. Good luck with yours and enjoy! They are such beautiful fish and so full of personality too
__________________

__________________
Pearly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
betta, bowl

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off








» Photo Contest Winners







All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.