Good quality food?

[TheresaM]

Just curious at how you store or house the live foods being as I have never used them.
I would like to use some from time to time though.
I feed the dried bloodworms a couple times a week and the algae wafers listed previously a couple times a week.
I use a quality flake once to twice a week.
And on Sat. they get a slice or two of cucumber.

Scud farm!

 

[Fishobsessed7]

Do any of the pellets sink? I forgot to mention they won't eat from the surface. I probably won't be able to go to town until next weekend.


Fishobsessed7

3 tanks and counting! (6 if you count the bettas)

 

[PassengerTN]

I feed New Life Spectrum Cichlid Formula in 1mm pellets. They sink

 

[sinibotia]

My fiance and I generally stick to a quality flake for most of the fish, with algae wafers and sinking wafers alternated for bottom dwellers. We also have freeze dried krill, and frozen bloodworms, brine shrimp, mysis shrimp, emerald entree, and cichlid formula to mix things up. Oh, and NLS cichlid pellets for Flint, our angelfish (who eats the pellets as well as prettymuch everything else)

Always check the food to make sure there is no garlic, though- it's bad for your fish's heart and liver!

 

[ImACoolguy]

My fiance and I generally stick to a quality flake for most of the fish, with algae wafers and sinking wafers alternated for bottom dwellers. We also have freeze dried krill, and frozen bloodworms, brine shrimp, mysis shrimp, emerald entree, and cichlid formula to mix things up. Oh, and NLS cichlid pellets for Flint, our angelfish (who eats the pellets as well as prettymuch everything else)



Always check the food to make sure there is no garlic, though- it's bad for your fish's heart and liver!

I've heard the opposite that garlic is actually good for them... I'll have to do some more reading.

Edit: it helps boost their immune system.


Caleb

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[Fishdude3233]

Garlic is very good for fish.


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[sinibotia]

Garlic being good for fish is a myth, and research suggests the opposite is actually true. If you don't believe me, I can pull up plenty of peer-reviewed scientific research. My academic advisor/boss/Biology of Fishes and Biology of Sharks professor/fishkeeping buddy at the university I attend has done published research on it himself. He's the chair of the aquaculture research program here at the university.

 

[sinibotia]

For the truth about Garlic's effect on fish, here's some suggested reading:

AH, Sargent JR, Thompson KD 1993
Terrestrial and fish oils affect phospholipid fatty acid composition, development of cardiac lesions, phospholipase activity and eicosanoid production in Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar).
Prostaglandins Leukot Essent Fatty Acids. 49(3):665-73

AH, Park MT, Sargent JR.1991.
High dietary linoleic acid affects the fatty acid compositions of individual phospholipids from tissues of Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar): association with stress susceptibility and cardiac lesion.
J Nutr. 121(8):1163-72

J. Gordon Bell2, John McEvoy3, Douglas R. Tocher, Fiona McGhee, Patrick J. Campbell* and John R. Sargent 2004
Replacement of Fish Oil with Rapeseed Oil in Diets of Atlantic Salmon (Salmo salar) Affects Tissue Lipid Compositions and Hepatocyte Fatty Acid Metabolism
The American Society for Nutritional Sciences

J.G. Bell1, D.R. Tocher1, B.M. Farndale1, A.H. McVicar2 and J.R. Sargent1 1999
Effects of essential fatty acid-deficient diets on growth, mortality, tissue histopathology and fatty acid compositions in juvenile turbot (Scophthalmus maximus)
Journal Fish Physiology and Biochemistry 1573-5168 Volume 20, Number 3 p263-277

SL Seierstad, TT Poppe, EO Koppang, A Svindland, G 2005
Influence of dietary lipid composition on cardiac pathology in farmed Atlantic salmon, Salmo salar L
Journal of Fish Diseases.

TL;DR version is that there is no scientifically supported benefit of garlic but plenty of scientifically supported downsides.

 

[Fishdude3233]

I will read your sources later but IME, and other people's experiences it is very useful in foods particularly for strengthening the immune system


Edit: were they using salmon as the "subjects" for their research?

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[sinibotia]

I will read your sources later but IME, and other people's experiences it is very useful in foods particularly for strengthening the immune system


Edit: were they using salmon as the "subjects" for their research?

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My advisor's area of expertise is immunology. I work in his lab and every project involves some aspect of some kind of fish disease. Believe me, if garlic had any positive scientifically supported effect on the fish immune system, he would know all about it. But in fact he is quite outspoken against it specifically because there is not scientifically supported evidence, not even a hint of a biological mechanism, that garlic does anything to boost the immune system. He's done plenty of research on it himself- all the evidence suggests it just doesn't do anything helpful.

On the other hand, there is both evidence AND a known mechanism by which garlic can cause harm to fish. Terrestrial lipids in general can be a problem for fish because they do not have the enzymes to break them down. And why should they? It's not something they usually encounter. Instead the lipids get deposited elsewhere in the body which can lead to serious health problems down the road. It's much the same reason that High Fructose Corn Syrup is so bad for us- we don't have the enzymes to properly digest it so it gets stored, or broken down improperly, leading to long term problems.

I get that personal experience is important- it itself is a part of the scientific process. Observations of things like the seeming immune benefits of garlic are what lead to real knowledge through controlled experimentation. But we can't cling to observations and experiences if they contradict experimental evidence.

And yes, salmon were used as subjects for most of those, because unfortunately the amount of funding for tropical fish research is paltry in comparison to the unholy sums pumped into food fish aquaculture research. I know you might be thinking that maybe it only has that effect (or lack of effect) on salmon, but until we test other fish we can't know for sure. What we do know is that at the very least, clearly garlic is not effective as a blanket treatment or immune booster. We also know that it likely causes at least some long-term harm. So unless research is done showing a clear benefit to other kinds of fish that outweighs the long term consequences, I will continue to advocate that garlic is unhealthy for fish.

 

[Fishdude3233]

My advisor's area of expertise is immunology. I work in his lab and every project involves some aspect of some kind of fish disease. Believe me, if garlic had any positive scientifically supported effect on the fish immune system, he would know all about it. But in fact he is quite outspoken against it specifically because there is not scientifically supported evidence, not even a hint of a biological mechanism, that garlic does anything to boost the immune system. He's done plenty of research on it himself- all the evidence suggests it just doesn't do anything helpful.

On the other hand, there is both evidence AND a known mechanism by which garlic can cause harm to fish. Terrestrial lipids in general can be a problem for fish because they do not have the enzymes to break them down. And why should they? It's not something they usually encounter. Instead the lipids get deposited elsewhere in the body which can lead to serious health problems down the road. It's much the same reason that High Fructose Corn Syrup is so bad for us- we don't have the enzymes to properly digest it so it gets stored, or broken down improperly, leading to long term problems.

I get that personal experience is important- it itself is a part of the scientific process. Observations of things like the seeming immune benefits of garlic are what lead to real knowledge through controlled experimentation. But we can't cling to observations and experiences if they contradict experimental evidence.

And yes, salmon were used as subjects for most of those, because unfortunately the amount of funding for tropical fish research is paltry in comparison to the unholy sums pumped into food fish aquaculture research. I know you might be thinking that maybe it only has that effect (or lack of effect) on salmon, but until we test other fish we can't know for sure. What we do know is that at the very least, clearly garlic is not effective as a blanket treatment or immune booster. We also know that it likely causes at least some long-term harm. So unless research is done showing a clear benefit to other kinds of fish that outweighs the long term consequences, I will continue to advocate that garlic is unhealthy for fish.

To each their own I guess.


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[sinibotia]

All I can say is the evidence is right there....

I will use garlic when someone can demonstrate to me the biological mechanism by which it boosts the immune system. What component of garlic is it that helps? With what aspects of the immune system does that component interact? What is the positive result of that interaction? So far the answer to all of these questions, according to unbiased, objective, controlled research, is "none".

 

[Ricky 1]

All I can say is the evidence is right there....

I will use garlic when someone can demonstrate to me the biological mechanism by which it boosts the immune system. What component of garlic is it that helps? With what aspects of the immune system does that component interact? What is the positive result of that interaction? So far the answer to all of these questions, according to unbiased, objective, controlled research, is "none".

Simple answer is, don't use it then.........

 

[Fishobsessed7]

Going to town today, so I will pick up whatever I can find.


Fishobsessed7

3 tanks and counting! (6 if you count the bettas)

 

[Fishobsessed7]

I got nls community fish formula. It was the one on this thread I could find! LOL I found hikari cichlid gold pellets, but it nls the floating type.


Fishobsessed7

3 tanks and counting! (6 if you count the bettas)

 

[trennamw]

IMHO you cant beat NLS Thera A + garlic. It comes in many sizes. My next choice is Omego 1. I also only feed pellets. Flakes are just too messy. Stay away from things like wardly and tetra mostly fillers.

This.

I've tried several higher end brands and the fish are brighter with NLS. They even prefer it to frozen foods. Must be the garlic.

Read the ingredients. I haven't seen any pellet or flake food that has as few fillers as NLS.

I do use Omega One algae wafers for the dudes on the bottom. The tetras try to steal them and fight over them too.


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[Vlado21]

As a seasonal fresh food I recommend an infused (about 15 min.) fresh nettle (or spinach). Many fish love it. In my tankEndlers, Ottos and Kribs tear it up for two-three days like a small tigers...

 

[Fishobsessed7]

Some sinking cichlid gold, fancy guppy pellets, and bottom feeder wafers came in the mail today, all by hikari.


Fishobsessed7

3 tanks and counting! (6 if you count the bettas)

 

[Vlado21]

Example of feeding my Krib cichlids with Hikari pellets:

https://youtu.be/RlJ_KqcMY_k

no mess, they clear it all...

 

[Bbush]

I don't feed garlic because it gives my fish bad breath ?


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