Alex's Shellie Tank (N. Multifasciatus)

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My experience with multi's when I tried to keep top dwelling fish. Multi staying by its shell. Other fish swims near. Multi darts to that fish and removes part of fin. darts back to shell.

Then repeats same behavior. However this was in a 15 so shallow compared to the 20H.


Darn. Everything I've read and heard up until now says they aren't too aggressive except for their own kind. But now 2 people are against the danios. I feel like the tank is tall enough and the danios fast and large enough to avoid getting hurt but I guess maybe not.

What fish specifically did you try?
 
I've struggled to keep Harmony in my tank between my colony and my group of lophiobagrus cyclurus (dwarf tanganyikan bullhead catfish) as well as with my spathodus erythrodon (goby cichlid, not a push over either). Took a lot of holey Rock to make that work, and it's one of the few multi tanks I've ever seen under 40 gallons to have anything else with them


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Ok I've done more research and eat I've seen is a few more places saying that they may not tolerate dithers. So I'm still on the fence about that but I'm leaning towards no.

Still getting the frogbit though.
 
I tried putting in the small male yesterday, after doing a water change, rearranging the rocks and adding more shells. He was back up to the top corner within 30 minutes.

It seems that they sort of "face off" by swimming up to each other and using their fins to push each other away by sort of fanning water at the other. Even the females get involved sometimes by helping the male push the smaller male.

He's in the breeder box again, and I posted an ad on the classifieds section here. I will give him away to an LFS or to someone on Craigslist if nobody in the Raleigh area wants him.
 
Id say add more shells, I have a pair of occies in a 10 gallon and they wouldn't stop fighting until I have them 16 shells each, now they won't freakin' stop spawning, but sadly the female keeps swallowing the spawns. As for the smaller male, I'd say either, add more shells, then try to introduce him again, or give him away. And your tank looks amazing!


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Once they push a male out of the colony, they typically won't allow him back in, from my experience. I agree with rehoming, and then just let yours spawn and fill out the colony


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Once they push a male out of the colony, they typically won't allow him back in, from my experience. I agree with rehoming, and then just let yours spawn and fill out the colony


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That's the plan. :)
 
I got some great floating plants in (salvinia minina) from brookster. I'm running the finnex planted+ right now. Suuuuuper overkill.

I mixed a diluted PPS pro batch tonight, I'll start dosing after water changes.

I'm going to Home Depot this weekend, hopefully, so I can try to hang this light.

My biggest problem is rehoming the male. I posted an ad here and just put up an ad on Craigslist as well.
 
Did you ever add any other fish? My friend just got some of these and was wondering about top fish, or getting a shallow tank!


No. I ended up giving him to a pet store. The guy there actually recommended dither fish like zebra danios though.

No other big updates. I plan on ordering some Amazon frogbit on Sunday depending on how the salvinia minina does in that time. I adjusted the flow as best I can but it is still pretty fast. I also prepared some ferts for the water. Some PO4, K, Mg, and micros. I dosed on Monday after a water change and plan on dosing every week, after the water change. I'm not dosing NO3.

One thing to note: the female that the male was with is guarding her she'll more fiercely now. She won't let the male anywhere near it and the smaller females aren't allowed within 2-3 inches of the shell. I'm hoping that means there are eggs in there. The only other possibility is that she is actually a male that he largest male just was never hostile to before, but that doesn't seem likely.

Edit: oh, and I never hung the light. I moved the HOB filter onto the side of the tank instead of the back, so now all the plants are in one half of the tank most of the time (they follow a path around the tank that generally occupies half the tank, but that half is cut somewhat diagonally). I now have the regular Fugeray 20" diagonally on the side of the tank that the plants are on. This leaves the left side of the tank somewhat shaded which I hear they may appreciate.

With the P+ on there I was running into some diatoms issues on the rocks; hopefully this will help limit that.
 
Alright I'm due for an update.

The tank is doing very well. The salvinia that brookster sent me is growing in the tank, and on me. I don't mind it as much when it doesn't get stuck in my filter. (Most of the baby plants died or grew so now they're big enough to stay up).

Speaking of filters, my tetra EX30 is kaput. Luckily my fluval 105 canister is still going strong. It should have enough mechanical filtration, and biological should be fine as well, with a low fish load and floating plants.

Speaking of plants, my frogbit came in today. It looks great; the leaves are nice and big. I had it before but I remembered the leaves as smaller.

Speaking of smaller, I'm ordering a smaller filter (Marina Slim S10) for a different project. I will seed it with the media from the EX30 that died, which is now floating in a breeder box (the media, not the filter :D).

Speaking of a different project, I found some plant growing sort of submerged in a pond. It had the feel and roots of Anubias the leaves of Ludwigia. So I have it, along with some floating frogbit and salvinia, in a 2.5 gallon under, get this, the 24" P+. I have a TPT finnex PAR chart bookmarked but they must be under very high light. I'll figure that out tomorrow for whoever's curious. I've been adding basically EI level dosing to that tank (2.5) just without nitrates. I should probably add some ammonia to compensate tomorrow. I dose a small amount on the 20 of the same, nitrate free, mixture. I will sell some of the salvinia and the frogbit that's growing in the 2.5. I'm sure they will do well under that light.

Speaking of doing well, the fish fish are looking great. It turns out that one of the ones I thought was a female is actually a very small male. It's been hard to sex them as the males don't seem to fight more than one other male at a time. For example, the largest and a darker male ganged up on be male that I gave away earlier. During that time I actually thought the dark male was a big female because the large male and dark male never showed any aggression to each other. Once the abused fish was rescued they began nipping. Now they've established territories and the smallest male that I thought was a female at first has his own in the corner. I should probably give them names. For anyone who cares, that puts me at 3 males (1 very large, 1 dark, and 1 small) and 2 females (indistinguishable except for where they hang out). These are some super cool fish to watch. They will occasionally get a mouthful of sand and spit it on another fish's she'll before getting chased away. It's like TPing houses.

Hoping for fry soon.

I attached a video, hopefully. It's a time lapse but it may not work.

Edit: it doesn't work. I uploaded a FTS instead.

Also, I noticed that with this higher rock structure and the floating plants they will actually come right to the surface to feed or just explore. Other interesting behavior I've noted is the large male flaring at his reflection, seeing the shiny of the thermometer, and brutally attacking it to the point I can hear him doing it from my desk 10 feet away. He's knocked the suction cup clean off the glass twice. I swear he's a mini Oscar. HEY I should name him Oscar! :lol:

 
I can't even keep assassin snails in my tank because they'll grab them and slam them into the glass repeatedly lol


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Tank looks good! They really have a lot of personality for such small fish.
 
I can't even keep assassin snails in my tank because they'll grab them and slam them into the glass repeatedly lol


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:lol: I'm not surprised. I honestly did not expect them to be like this. Luckily they don't nip each other too much.

Tank looks good! They really have a lot of personality for such small fish.

Thanks! They are very cool. The only thing I can compare them to is a bolivian ram I had once, which was cool but not nearly this cool.
 
Quick update:

The frogbit looks really good. New leaves and the roots are much longer. I like it a lot more than the salvinia.

The females are starting to look a bit plumper. I gave them some frozen bloodworms today; I'll feed those a few more times this week in hope that they might spawn. The males are still quarreling. The one that set up camp in the "cave" in the rock but then got kicked out is very strange. He still hangs around the rocks even though I seem him getting chased away and even nipped from my desk. The strange part is the aggressive male (I've actually started calling him Oscar now :lol: ) actually lets him have a few shells to himself on the edge of Oscars territory! So he has shells open to him but he chooses to stay near the rocks, despite the abuse, because that's what he's used to.

If it gets worse I'll put a stone or something to block off the rocks he hangs out near, and maybe he'll learn to stay in the territory that Oscar graciously allows him.

Pics tomorrow!
 
I had a bit of a scare today.

The male that's been hiding in the rocks despite being attacked by the other males finally had an episode today that tipped it over the edge. I was watching from my desk as he was harassed over and over again. I figured eventually he'd give up and just surrender his claims on that area of the tank and go back to his shell on the other side of the tank (basically he has some shells in the right corner of the tank and defends that territory at times, but prefers to be right in between the other 2 males' territories on the left side of the tank in a crevice in the rocks. Of course, the others don't like that so the nip him a lot).

But he didn't give up this time. To seek shelter after a particularly nasty round of attack he actually wedged himself in a hole in the rock and looked unable to come out. I had to pull the rocks apart from the silicone sealant that I had put to hold them together to get him to come out. He was uninjured, thankfully. Those rocks have some sharp edges to them.

I took all the rocks out for now. I may go to the LFS and pick up some more of the same kind to break up the territory a little better.
 
I gave away the harassed male to an LFS.

I'm kind of disappointed. I read sources online that said that males would be aggressive to each other but that they could coexist. Nothing that said they'd force them into the corner of the tank.

Ultimately I think the choice of footprint was poor. Well I didn't really have a choice. But if possible a 20 long would have been better. Well the bigger the better really. Gosh a 40 breeder would be cool...

So now I have 2 males and 2 females. I'm hesitant to call them pairs because they don't show any signs of spawning. I'll wait and see.

I changed up the rocks to better section off territory. It looks good now and the fish seem to like it I guess.



That picture doesn't do the rockwork justice. It looks good from the other angles and provides great hiding spots.

The frogbit has started to send out runners. Some of the older leaves are dying; I just pinch them off. It might be a deficiency so I started dosing more.

The salvinia looks good as well. I hope that the frogbit will grow enough to provide cover for the salvinia. If I get enough frogbit the salvinia seems to "stick" to it and not drift around, get wedged behind the filter, or pushed underwater as much.

A few unrelated things:

I've seen orange-red swarms at a local pond since last year, especially in the fall. So I bought a cast net off amazon and caught this:





Comet goldfish. Somebody must have released them. I don't know what they feed on but they go into a frenzy of some sort. Maybe they're breeding in a frenzy? Does that happen? I only say that because I don't know what they could possibly be eating. It must be microscopic.

Also I collected some stems of ludwigia Repens from a different pond and put them in a glass on a window sill with a bit of salvinia and frogbit. Just to see what happens.
 
It was a matter of time before any bird spotted that comet.
Ultra clean tank fishperson! I've never owned shellies, so I'm looking for info. Can a variety of shells be used in the scape? I'm lso wondering about dw going to the surface to try and break up territorial disputes?

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Where do you live? I just saw you caught a net full of comets! Where are the Blue Herons?

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