Angelfish and firemouth

[swifty]

I took my female convict out of my tank because it was occasionally bullying my male firemouth, and I didn't want him to be stressed. I replaced the convict with an angelfish this Sunday. The thing is now the firemouth is in charge. It hasn't got to the point of nipped fins, but anytime he sees the angelfish he'll give chase. The angel is usually hiding behind the plants or other decor I have in there, and hasn't ate since then which doesn't seem too out of the ordinary.

Will this become a problem later on, or is it just the common new fish acclimating to its new surroundings?

 

[Paxlerod]

This the bittersweet truth of keeping cichlids. 1.You will come to the realization that you will more than likely need a bigger tank or 2.compromise with yourself and keep smaller cichlids. 3.cichlids establish territories. 4.some just don't mix with others 5.the community dynamics change with each new fish introduced. Once you come to terms with a balanced arrangement. You will truly enjoy your fish for years.

 

[Paxlerod]

I just saw the pics of your tank. It is beautiful. But sadly on the small side for a t.meeki (firemouth). Most recommendations cite 25-30 for a pair. So you may get away with it but one may claim the entire tank as its territory.

 

[swifty]

Yeah I have a 29g ready to upgrade when the time needs, but as of now the firemouth is still pretty tiny (6 months and its 2 some inches). I was ready to break down and switch to the 29 and use the 20 for the angel, but not sure if I want to do all that again since I broke the tank down just to remove the feisty convict.

 

[Andy Sager]

Yeah I have a 29g ready to upgrade when the time needs, but as of now the firemouth is still pretty tiny (6 months and its 2 some inches). I was ready to break down and switch to the 29 and use the 20 for the angel, but not sure if I want to do all that again since I broke the tank down just to remove the feisty convict.

I've found, over my many years of fish keeping, that fish that grow big or grow aggressive with age, act that way when they are small too. So you firemouth only being 6 months old or 2+inches doesn't really matter. It's big enough to hassles the less aggressive Angelfish. Yes the Angel and Firemouth are both Cichlids but there are many categories of Cichlids (i.e. Small, large, semi aggressive, really aggressive, aggressive, solitary, communal, just to name a few.) So you had 2 aggressive cichlids when you had the convict and firemouth but then you switched to an aggressive and communal semi aggressive with the Angel. This is not a good match, especially in this sized tank. Your best bet (IMO) is to separate these 2 fish so they both have a chance at being content.
Welcome to the world of keeping cichlids

I would suggest you do more research on the fish you want to add prior to adding them. It will save you a few headaches

 

[NYgiantsRP]

Most likely the tank is just too small for all those attitudes. You should upgrade to the 29g ASAP. See how it goes in the 29, but them might not be able to be housed together.

 

[swifty]

I've found, over my many years of fish keeping, that fish that grow big or grow aggressive with age, act that way when they are small too. So you firemouth only being 6 months old or 2+inches doesn't really matter. It's big enough to hassles the less aggressive Angelfish. Yes the Angel and Firemouth are both Cichlids but there are many categories of Cichlids (i.e. Small, large, semi aggressive, really aggressive, aggressive, solitary, communal, just to name a few.) So you had 2 aggressive cichlids when you had the convict and firemouth but then you switched to an aggressive and communal semi aggressive with the Angel. This is not a good match, especially in this sized tank. Your best bet (IMO) is to separate these 2 fish so they both have a chance at being content.
Welcome to the world of keeping cichlids

I would suggest you do more research on the fish you want to add prior to adding them. It will save you a few headaches

I found a few posts on other aquarium forums of owners whom had firemouths and angels together with no problems. I also asked on here and 2 users said I'd be fine, which is the only reason I went through with it.

It has yet to escalate, as of now if he runs into him he'll either ignore the angel or chase it away. The second I see a nip on any fin I'll separate them.

 

[Acer]

As long as there are no females in there with him you might be able to get away with it but every fish is different, keep an eye out and be ready to remove either fish if necessary.

 

[Andy Sager]

I found a few posts on other aquarium forums of owners whom had firemouths and angels together with no problems. I also asked on here and 2 users said I'd be fine, which is the only reason I went through with it.

It has yet to escalate, as of now if he runs into him he'll either ignore the angel or chase it away. The second I see a nip on any fin I'll separate them.

For what it's worth....

1) Did you ask the other posters if they kept these 2 fish in the same sized tank that you are trying this in? THAT makes a big difference.

2) By the time you see a nip, it may be too late.

3) With all the posts that are out there in cyberspace about each fish and the hundreds of people on this site alone, you are taking the word of a "FEW"? Have you heard of the "game" Russian Rhoulette? 1 person wins and 5 people lose. Those are your odds with this pair

Just some things to think about...

 

[dragonfisher33]

separate them immediately. firemouths are known to be more aggressive than angelfish. I've had multiple angelfishs in my community tank without incident but the fact that you have firemouth with your angelfish really takes it over the top, again.

how big are your fish btw?

 

[Paxlerod]

For what it's worth....

1) Did you ask the other posters if they kept these 2 fish in the same sized tank that you are trying this in? THAT makes a big difference.

 

[Andy Sager]

@ Paxelrod: LOL It was explained to me that the game is a no win game. In order to win, you get the chamber with the bullet. But you lose by getting the bullet. Yes, it makes sense the other way around but this was how a Russian friend of mine explained it to me. Go figure?
I was just using that as an example of how potentially bad that combo is in that size tank. It's not really a win/win situation. I'm guessing that if the OP knew the right thing to do, he/she wouldn't have created the thread. Now that more than just us 2 have replied, the OP can do what they want. It's his/her fish after all. I just know that if a customer came into my store and told me what they were doing and in what size tank they were doing it in, I would STRONGLY recommend they not do that. That was all

 

[Paxlerod]

I agree with you. In fact your approach when giving advice has always been in a respectable way without making us ( the less informed) feeling dumb for asking. Proper preparation and research when starting out in this hobby will pay off in a number of ways but for me most importantly in the reduction of stress, when you have a balanced aquarium.

 

[Andy Sager]

I agree with you. In fact your approach when giving advice has always been in a respectable way without making us ( the less informed) feeling dumb for asking. Proper preparation and research when starting out in this hobby will pay off in a number of ways but for me most importantly in the reduction of stress, when you have a balanced aquarium.

ABSOLUTELY Tanks with balance, with less or no stress, are more prone to be successful and more enjoyable to the hobbyist over the long run. That's my goal with my advice. More enjoyablility

For me, there is no dumb question. If you don't know the answer, ASK. Someone on this site I'm sure has the answer.

Thanks for your comment. I appreciate the feedback

 

[swifty]

For what it's worth....

1) Did you ask the other posters if they kept these 2 fish in the same sized tank that you are trying this in? THAT makes a big difference.

2) By the time you see a nip, it may be too late.

3) With all the posts that are out there in cyberspace about each fish and the hundreds of people on this site alone, you are taking the word of a "FEW"? Have you heard of the "game" Russian Rhoulette? 1 person wins and 5 people lose. Those are your odds with this pair

Just some things to think about...

I didn't ask them, but I posted to just get some more opinions. My mind was setup based on other cichlid forums that I visited and various other aquarium sites where owners of both reported success with them.

Most kept relaying the same information that I'm witnessing now; in that firemouths seem to be the more passive of CA cichlids and they're more bark than bite.

I didn't just google and find 1 thread and went out and bought the angelfish. I posted on several sites to get opinions and searched dozens of archived posts and from that information I made my decision.

I was told to never mix tetras with convicts, and when my female was in there she never touched them over the 6 month span I had her. I understand when giving advice you always go the safe route but sometimes you can venture a little off.

 

[Andy Sager]

As I said in one of my previous posts, You are free to do what you want, it's your tank and your money. Yes, fish keeping can be situational. Going slightly off the suggested path can be successful but when you play the odds, they are not in your favor. That's why we see so many "complaint" threads by unsuccessful people copying only parts of the situation with poor results.
As for mixing your Tetras with your Convict, that's too broad a comment. Here's 2 situations that will have different outcomes: Mixing say, B.A. Tetras with a convict will have a much higher success rate than say mixing Neon or Cardinal Tetras with the convict. While the 3 types are all Tetras, the neons and cardinals are a more fragile specie while the B.A.s are a hardier stock. Even though B.A. is supposed to stand for Buenos Aires, it should stand for Bad A*s LOL So as I said, it's situational.

I hope it works out for you but don't be too surprised if it doesn't. I think that's what we have been trying to say here

 

[Paxlerod]

Good luck hope it works and your happy

 

[98kshooter]

This the bittersweet truth of keeping cichlids. 1.You will come to the realization that you will more than likely need a bigger tank or 2.compromise with yourself and keep smaller cichlids. 3.cichlids establish territories. 4.some just don't mix with others 5.the community dynamics change with each new fish introduced. Once you come to terms with a balanced arrangement. You will truly enjoy your fish for years.

YEp truer words have never been spoke! My community matched that totally!

 

[swifty]

As I said in one of my previous posts, You are free to do what you want, it's your tank and your money. Yes, fish keeping can be situational. Going slightly off the suggested path can be successful but when you play the odds, they are not in your favor. That's why we see so many "complaint" threads by unsuccessful people copying only parts of the situation with poor results.
As for mixing your Tetras with your Convict, that's too broad a comment. Here's 2 situations that will have different outcomes: Mixing say, B.A. Tetras with a convict will have a much higher success rate than say mixing Neon or Cardinal Tetras with the convict. While the 3 types are all Tetras, the neons and cardinals are a more fragile specie while the B.A.s are a hardier stock. Even though B.A. is supposed to stand for Buenos Aires, it should stand for Bad A*s LOL So as I said, it's situational.

I hope it works out for you but don't be too surprised if it doesn't. I think that's what we have been trying to say here

Yup I understand your point, and I'm thankful for your input.

That's what I love about this hobby. There is so much different experiences with different species of fish (and plants!). The LFS that sold me the black skirts told me they were notorious fin nippers, but 6 months by and still no troubles other than the occasional chase between the school of 6 in there.

My friend's tank has been setup for almost 2 years with a ram and gourami along with some tetras and a BNP, and before he got them he was told by several people not to chance a gourami with a ram. He decided to give it a shot and he's glad he did as they're both nice fish and the gourami isn't as territorial as others.

 

[Andy Sager]

Yup I understand your point, and I'm thankful for your input.

That's what I love about this hobby. There is so much different experiences with different species of fish (and plants!). The LFS that sold me the black skirts told me they were notorious fin nippers, but 6 months by and still no troubles other than the occasional chase between the school of 6 in there.

My friend's tank has been setup for almost 2 years with a ram and gourami along with some tetras and a BNP, and before he got them he was told by several people not to chance a gourami with a ram. He decided to give it a shot and he's glad he did as they're both nice fish and the gourami isn't as territorial as others.

Well it sounds like your friend had been given some bad advice by several people concerning mixing Rams and Gouramis. I can only think of one variety of Gourami that would have been a bad fit and if a hobbyist was raising one of those, they wouldn't be putting Rams in with it in the first place cause they would get lost in the large tank necessary to house it.
If I were you, I'd check out the qualifications of the people giving you (or your friend) advice before you start listening I think my profile says it all about me