Betta fin rot quandry

[saffikeagan]

Okay, so I've been paranoid about my betta getting finrot and have been watching carefully. What-do-you-know; he got it. UGH, talk about a self fufilling prophesy.

My quandry is that I know doing lots of regular PWCs and keeping the tank clean will help, but I have lots of wood in my tank to purposfully leech tannins etc. This does have the effect of lowering the pH down to 7.0-7.2 and changing the water parameters slowly. However, I don't want to stress Sammie out even worse by doing a lot of PWCs if those PWCs are going to yoyo my parameters.

Honestly, I can think of several reasons he came down with finrot including overfeeding (I'm still trying to figure out how to make sure my kuhlis aren't starving without overfeeding the tank), me mucking about in the tank a lot in this last week as I continue to try to figure out the most efficient way to vacuum sand (Goal: leave the sand, get the detrius, and not take more than 30% of the water).

I did a PWC on Monday or Tuesday in which I changed about 20-30 percent of the water (3ish gallons on a 14). I did some additional gravel vaccing last night, removed all the dead plant stuff I could find, etc, but only changed about 1 gallon of water. I'm not sure whether to keep up my newbie bumblings around the tank, or whether to leave well enough alone and wait and see. I did go ahead and add aquarium salt as a stop-gap measure until I sort out what to do about my tank.

I'll post this mornings parameters in a bit (as soon as I can take them).

 

[saffikeagan]

My tank parameters:
Ammonia, Nitrite : 0
Nitrate : 10
Ph ~7.2
KH : 40-80
GH : 75-150
temp : 80-82

I only have strips for the GH and KH and we all know how accurate those are.

The tank itself has been up and cycled for a few months. It's a planted 14 stocked with 1 betta, 5 whiteclouds, and 3 kuhlis.

 

[happygirl65]

OK, well you have nitrite on your list twice....I am going to assume you mean nitrate is 10 since you have been up and running for a few months.

In which case everything looks good as far as your parameters go. I would look into an antibiotic treatment if it is finrot...If it is just damage or burned then it will heal itself with plenty of clean water.

Salt can help to destress them especially if there was an ammonia spike or something that caused it to break out. So I think that was a good move. Have you added any new inhabitants recently? Or had any fish die perhaps? Have you noticed the white clouds nipping at his fins? Could it be damage?

If there have been no changes and no nipping and he suddenly developed this I would suggest perhaps isolating sammie and treating him so that you don't risk knocking your biofilter. Do you have a way to temporarily QT sammie and do daily water changes?

If not I would still do daily water changes. I doubt that the driftwood is having too drastic of an effect on your pH and even if it is dropping it by a few tenths you would likely be fine to do small daily water changes of about 10%. This in itself can cure many problems with most fish.

If sammie were my fish and I were sure he had fin rot I would isolate him in a QT tank (or temp tub etc) treat with maracyn or maracyn two antibiotic for the 10 day treatment doing once or twice daily water changes for the full 10 day course, then return him to the regular tank a day or two after the last treatment if all looks well.

If you have introduced any newfish in the last three weeks I would say treat the whole tank. Just be aware that the antibiotics can kill your biofilter so keep adding the salt as it will make an ammonia or nitrite spike less stressful and be ready to do daily water changes of perhaps 50%.

If you are unsure if the smaller fish are nipping isolation may still be in order just to observe if that may be the problem.

Hope this helps.
Best of luck. Sounds like you are right on top of things. I am sure sammie will be just fine under your excellent care.

 

[saffikeagan]

No new fishies added (at least not since I put my Kuhlis in maybe 4 weeks ago). His fins have been looking a bit ragged for awhile, but nothing that I could actually state definitively was anything other than his normal fin look (i.e. no moldy patches etc just a bit of off coloredness etc). Now they are significantly receding, but no moldy stuff.

I did have one white cloud that wouldn't socialize, eat etc. I finally pulled him out of that tank and put him in QT a few weeks ago. Nothing obviously wrong. In QT, he just wasted away to nothing.

 

[saffikeagan]

Update, well I'm still worried about doing too many too big water changes because I like my tank to stay nice and blackwaterish and I don't like to stress my loaches.

So I removed Sammie to a pickle tub. Added Bettafix (not sure if this is a good product or not), added salt, and fed him some yummy worms to make up for the bucket accommodation.

I'm leaving the water level on my tank low (2-3 gallons shy of full) and I removed the muffle from the filter. I don't think mega current will bother the white clouds or my kuhlis (quite the opposite, I'm sure), and I'll give the filter a chance to stir up and remove some gunk. I still might put something finer in there to catch the smaller gunk-ettes.

Any other suggestions or ideas?

This really is weird timing because my female betta in the new office tank has some sort of bacterial something or other too (she has sores on her gills and a lack of irridescence on a large part of her body). I think the Otos I put in recently might have come in with something or tother. Anyway, salt and lots of PWCs seem to be doing her well but that tank is just straight tap water with no woods or anything to change the nature of the water.

I just feel a bit like I'm batting zeros with my bettas at the moment.

 

[happygirl65]

I found a web page with betta diseases you may like to check out at your own risk... http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_diseases.htm

I think it was a good move isolating him, I think I would try maracyn and maracyn two in combination (that has saved several suffering fishes for me before in the past with similar ailments) for the full ten day course and tons of clean water. Really all thewater changes are really a key component to recovery IMO.

Best of luck to you.

 

[An t-iasg]

I'm sorry to hear about Sammie and I'd follow happygirl65's excellent advice! I would try treating with the Maracyn 1 and 2 together. Bettafix is a more-diluted product based on Melafix. Melafix is a great product for most fish but I find that the bettas' labyrinth organs can be irritated with it. By using Bettafix, since it's diluted, you may not have that irritation, but just to be sure, I would use the Maracyns.

 

[saffikeagan]

Good info, thank.

Sammie's fins look worse to me today. I guess it might take a few days to really turn it around. I will probably go get some good meds tomorrow and return the bettafix.

 

[saffikeagan]

I feel bad for Sammie. He's in QT (a white plastic pickle tub) and I think he's a bit depressed. He has nothing for entertainment. Just lots and lots of white

 

[new2betas]

I found a web page with betta diseases you may like to check out at your own risk... http://www.bettatalk.com/betta_diseases.htm

I think it was a good move isolating him, I think I would try maracyn and maracyn two in combination (that has saved several suffering fishes for me before in the past with similar ailments) for the full ten day course and tons of clean water. Really all thewater changes are really a key component to recovery IMO.

Best of luck to you.

Thank you SO much for that link! I have three male bettas in my household and two females and this will be invaluable information for me!
I also ordered her "betta first aid kit"....I thought it was a real buy at $35, just two of those medicines at my local pet store would cost me $20, plus the gas to get there and back.

 

[happygirl65]

I feel bad for Sammie. He's in QT (a white plastic pickle tub) and I think he's a bit depressed. He has nothing for entertainment. Just lots and lots of white

Aww, I know how you feel, but it really is better for him right now. And just think about whn you are sick, you probably don't need a whole lot of entertainment, you just need to rest and get better.

Keep up the good work, your attentiveness will make all the difference in the world.

 

[saffikeagan]

Update:

So Sammie was depressed so last night I put some clay pot fragments and a plastic plant that I was going to throw away in his tub with him. Then I went to work, and my female betta there looked like her gills were doing better, but her scales were still black and she had a new white patch at the corner of her mouth. At that point I said "screw it" and went to PetStore to get some cure all jungle stuff (It's the Jungle Lifeguard stuff). Both bettas have now been treated. The female I'm treating in her tank as I'm pretty sure the otos will need the treatment too as she seems to have a combination of bacteria and fungus. PetStore said that the jungle stuff won't bother the otos, but I undertreated anyway (a dose for 5 gallons in a 6.6). I also caught myself pouring chlorinated water into the tank filter, I quickly treated it with Prime, but I will have to cross my fingers and test the water tomorrow. Hopefully my filter will survive the chlorine and meds. If not, I can always steal some media from my home tank and instant cycle again.

Do I need to treat my home tank (the one that had Sammie) too, or is finrot a beta specific thing that won't bother my white clouds and kuhlis?

 

[JohnPaul]

Do I need to treat my home tank (the one that had Sammie) too, or is finrot a beta specific thing that won't bother my white clouds and kuhlis?

Usually finrot is an opportunistic infection that hits a fish that is for some reason weakened or stressed. So for now there's no need to treat your whole tank. Just keep an extra eye on your fish over the next week or so to make sure none of them show signs of the same problem.

 

[Sahabo]

Jungle products are great for treating the white fungus patches and the finrot. I've had excellent success in treating my betta with Jungle Labs Fungus Eliminator. My betta gets stressed easily and is prone to finrot...the Jungle meds worked great every time...it stops the fungus and you can start to see new fin growth after 1-2 treatments. It's a powder that dissolves in the water...but make sure you use it in the QT tank because it can kill off your beneficial bacteria.

I would look for a different QT tank. I've heard that bettas are sensitive to colors and can get overstimulated and depressed by all the white reflecting back at them. A clear tank would be much better and probably less stressful for Sammie. Pet stores sell small plastic tanks that you can use for cheap such as a critter keeper. Also, your QT tank should be heated just like your home tank...Hydor makes a very small controlled heater called Theo that will help keep Sammie comfy while being treated.

 

[Sahabo]

PS. Betta fins can also look ragged, holes developing, torn and chunks of fin suddenly falling off when they are over stressed. This is called a blown tail and can be simply treated with rest and good clean water. This can sometimes be confused with finrot, which is a fungus that starts at the end of the tail and rots towards the body.

 

[new2betas]

Hydor makes a very small controlled heater called Theo that will help keep Sammie comfy while being treated.

Heidi,
What wattage is this....I am looking online for them and the smallest I see other than the flat one is 25W....is that what you use?

 

[new2betas]

I found the 25W at Drs. Foster & Smith for 16.99. Might just pick one of these up....thanks!

 

[Sahabo]

yep...the 25w. it works wonderfully, small enough to fit in a 1 gallon tank and it keeps the temp steady. That's what
i used to move Corwin.

 

[saffikeagan]

I will need a heater eventually. Right now it's summer, 100 degrees outside, and despite a/c a pretty steady 80-82 inside. No worries there. I don't think the heater in my main tank has cycled on in about 3 months.

My first QT tank was clear, but I hadn't sterilized it out from when my sick White Cloud was in it. I think I'll go put it in the sun then transfer Sammie in a few hours (after letting it cool down again that is).

So If I'm treating my whole office tank for fungus, then I should wait until treatment is over to add established filter media again? Should I be doing PWCs while treating with Jungle or no?

 

[Sahabo]

yes, I would wait until the treatment is over to add the filter media. Another option I've done in the past to save the good bacteria while treating a whole tank is to take out the biological filter media, put it in some water, and feed it a drop of pure ammonia every day so the bacteria don't die of starvation.

As far as the PWCs while treating with Jungle, it depends on which med you are using. They should have directions on them. The Jungle Fungus Eliminator is the one I'm most familiar with, and it says to do a 25% pwc before treating. A second dose can be added after 4 days after another 25% pwc. Good luck! Your bettas are lucky to have such a dedicated owner