saffikeagan
Aquarium Advice Freak
Yea, it's a bit too late for that 
as I dumped the meds in, THEN thought about the media.
as I dumped the meds in, THEN thought about the media.
Betta fin rot quandry
- Thread starter saffikeagan
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Sahabo
Aquarium Advice FINatic
lol, don't worry, we've all done that at one time or another
saffikeagan
Aquarium Advice Freak
So at the end of today, here's the status:
Sammie is back into his clear (well frosted) QT tank. It's smaller so I have to dicker with the meds more, but I guess that means they will go further right? Is it okay to dissolve the tablets into a few mLs of water, then use a proportionate amount of the solution over numerous days? I found that trying to cut the tablets into 1/8ths was a bit beyond my capabilities (i.e. I ended up with tablet particles everywhere). He is also looking better today and last night he built a bubble nest.
I went into work to dose that tank too and Zebbie's (my female betta there) was looking better, the mouth fungus was gone and her gills are healing up well. I can't wait till she gets her coloring back.
Sammie is back into his clear (well frosted) QT tank. It's smaller so I have to dicker with the meds more, but I guess that means they will go further right? Is it okay to dissolve the tablets into a few mLs of water, then use a proportionate amount of the solution over numerous days? I found that trying to cut the tablets into 1/8ths was a bit beyond my capabilities (i.e. I ended up with tablet particles everywhere). He is also looking better today and last night he built a bubble nest.
I went into work to dose that tank too and Zebbie's (my female betta there) was looking better, the mouth fungus was gone and her gills are healing up well. I can't wait till she gets her coloring back.
Sahabo
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Excellent! Glad to hear they are both on the mend. Well I don't have a lot of experience with those particular tablets so I'm not sure. I think as long as the ratio of meds to gallons is right then it's probably fine.
An t-iasg
Aquarium Advice Addict
Yes, I've been there/done that with trying to cut tablets! If I need to dose a tablet med in a small volume of water, here's what I do:
If you have a one gallon empty bottled water jug, pour some tap water in and add dechlorinator. Put the whole tablet in the jug. You may want to cut it in half first to facilitate the dissolving. Or, if you're using a capsule med, open the capsule and dump the whole capsule in there. Shake it up well.
If your QT tank is one gallon, and the dosage on the package says 1 tablet per 10 gallons, then you want to use 1/10th of a gallon of the medicine water. 1/10th of a gallon is about 1 1/2 cups. Put a cup and a half (measuring cup) of medicine water in the QT bowl, and fill the rest of the bowl with dechlorinated water. This method may not be super-precise but it should allow you to use a tablet or capsule med if necessary.
If you have a one gallon empty bottled water jug, pour some tap water in and add dechlorinator. Put the whole tablet in the jug. You may want to cut it in half first to facilitate the dissolving. Or, if you're using a capsule med, open the capsule and dump the whole capsule in there. Shake it up well.
If your QT tank is one gallon, and the dosage on the package says 1 tablet per 10 gallons, then you want to use 1/10th of a gallon of the medicine water. 1/10th of a gallon is about 1 1/2 cups. Put a cup and a half (measuring cup) of medicine water in the QT bowl, and fill the rest of the bowl with dechlorinated water. This method may not be super-precise but it should allow you to use a tablet or capsule med if necessary.
saffikeagan
Aquarium Advice Freak
I dissolved a certain amount into a certain amount, but I really can't remember the amounts. LOL. I guess it's a good thing I wrote how many mLs to give each day!
Well, the saga continues:
Zebbie: no mouth fungus, no gill improvement, no color improvement.
Sammie: fin improvement, but has to stay covered 100% of the time cause he's in 1.75ish gallons of water which fills his QT to the tip top. Said tip top happens to be chest height on a certain Keagan kitten's chest. There is nothing a Keagan kitten likes more than to drink from a fish tank (well, that and drinking from a dripping faucet are probably rivals). However, I don't want the K.K. drinking medicated water. LOL. So food and medications are added really quickly with one hand on the additions and one hand on the cat's head.
I had my hands in Sammie's main tank for about 2 hours today continuing to learn the best way to get the mulm and stuff off the sand. I finally pulled out both pieces of wood, and that made it a lot easier actually to get to the gunk and get rid of it. I also put a think hunk of jersy material around the biological filter to increase it's trapping capasity. I'm going to keep the water level low and see if the current won't help flush a lot of what's left into the filter. In addition, I pulled my large Crypt apart and just replanted three of the small crypts that came in the bunch. This allowed me to a)weight them down until they get rooted, b) really clear out the rest of the wool from the roots, and c) open up some space in my tank.
Well, the saga continues:
Zebbie: no mouth fungus, no gill improvement, no color improvement.
Sammie: fin improvement, but has to stay covered 100% of the time cause he's in 1.75ish gallons of water which fills his QT to the tip top. Said tip top happens to be chest height on a certain Keagan kitten's chest. There is nothing a Keagan kitten likes more than to drink from a fish tank (well, that and drinking from a dripping faucet are probably rivals). However, I don't want the K.K. drinking medicated water. LOL. So food and medications are added really quickly with one hand on the additions and one hand on the cat's head.
I had my hands in Sammie's main tank for about 2 hours today continuing to learn the best way to get the mulm and stuff off the sand. I finally pulled out both pieces of wood, and that made it a lot easier actually to get to the gunk and get rid of it. I also put a think hunk of jersy material around the biological filter to increase it's trapping capasity. I'm going to keep the water level low and see if the current won't help flush a lot of what's left into the filter. In addition, I pulled my large Crypt apart and just replanted three of the small crypts that came in the bunch. This allowed me to a)weight them down until they get rooted, b) really clear out the rest of the wool from the roots, and c) open up some space in my tank.
happygirl65
Aquarium Advice Addict
I have a cat thatloves to do that too. Good luck. Sounds like your fish are well on thir way to recovery. nice work!
nice work!saffikeagan
Aquarium Advice Freak
Okay peeps,
First, thanks for all the help and advise.
Second, I have more questions:
1) So my 5 day Jungle Lifeguard treatment is finished as of today. Sammie's fins are looking good, but they aren't totally back to normal. Should I put him back into his tank and monitor the progression of his fins, or keep him in QT until I'm sure they have been fully regrown?
2) So Zebbie, the female at work with me, hasn't made the progress I would have hoped. This might be because I've been under-treating that tank. It's a 6.6 and I've been dosing for 5 gallons for convenience and for the Otos. I think I'm going to bring her home while I'm on holiday. Should I continue the treatment even though the box doesn't state what to do if the problems aren't resolved?
First, thanks for all the help and advise.
Second, I have more questions:
1) So my 5 day Jungle Lifeguard treatment is finished as of today. Sammie's fins are looking good, but they aren't totally back to normal. Should I put him back into his tank and monitor the progression of his fins, or keep him in QT until I'm sure they have been fully regrown?
2) So Zebbie, the female at work with me, hasn't made the progress I would have hoped. This might be because I've been under-treating that tank. It's a 6.6 and I've been dosing for 5 gallons for convenience and for the Otos. I think I'm going to bring her home while I'm on holiday. Should I continue the treatment even though the box doesn't state what to do if the problems aren't resolved?
An t-iasg
Aquarium Advice Addict
1) I would put Sammie back in the tank if the treatment is done. As long as the fins look like they are starting to heal, put him back in his regular tank. If you see any black strings/black areas to the fins, do another treatment. If you see a whitish-clear edge to the fins, they are regrowing and that's a good sign. It may take awhile - up to a month or so - for the fins to regain their original length and color. It may take longer if the fin damage was severe. The color in the new growth could be the same or it could be slightly different than before.
2) Are you using Maracyn 1 and 2? I would bring Zebbie home and treat her in the QT so you can give a full dose of med without worrying about hurting the other fish or the biological filter.
2) Are you using Maracyn 1 and 2? I would bring Zebbie home and treat her in the QT so you can give a full dose of med without worrying about hurting the other fish or the biological filter.
saffikeagan
Aquarium Advice Freak
I am using Jungle Labs Lifeguard which treats for everything under the sun as Zebbie had both fungus and bacteria going on.
Sammie's got one part that still has some blackish stuff at the edge.
Sammie's got one part that still has some blackish stuff at the edge.
An t-iasg
Aquarium Advice Addict
Watch the black edge for a day or two - it just might fall right off. Do an extra water change or two in the meantime. If it doesn't fall off shortly I'd start another round of meds.
saffikeagan
Aquarium Advice Freak
Well, I put Sammie back in his tank tonight so I could put Zebbie (my female from work in the QT tank after a WC of course). Her gills looked almost fully healed today, but I still want to keep an eye on her as she still has a lack of coloring around her face and her spine. Sammie is chasing the white clouds around though I'm wondering if he's just not terribly happy with their existence. I guess that would be my second guess of what was stressing him. If not over feeding, then just the presence of the white clouds. He always did chase them a bit, but not continuously, so I thought, eh, good exercise. He totally ignores the kuhlis though. I think I'd have to return the white clouds though as they wouldn't fit in my 6.6 with my female betta and the three ottos. I'm almost tempted to put Sammie in the tank at work and leave Zebbie here in the community tank.
Choices, choices....
Do female bettas in general deal with currents better than males i.e. are they better swimmers?
I'm wondering if he's just not terribly happy with their existence. I guess that would be my second guess of what was stressing him. If not over feeding, then just the presence of the white clouds. He always did chase them a bit, but not continuously, so I thought, eh, good exercise. He totally ignores the kuhlis though. I think I'd have to return the white clouds though as they wouldn't fit in my 6.6 with my female betta and the three ottos. I'm almost tempted to put Sammie in the tank at work and leave Zebbie here in the community tank. Choices, choices....
Do female bettas in general deal with currents better than males i.e. are they better swimmers?
An t-iasg
Aquarium Advice Addict
Some bettas do tolerate other fish and can live in a community tank, and some just cannot. Maybe Sammie would prefer to be by himself, or at least, with just the kuhlis. How are the white clouds doing? I didn't think they would like the higher temps that the bettas prefer.
That's a good question about the female bettas. I have never had any females, but it does make sense that they could tolerate a little more current since the fins are shorter than the males'. It would be apparent if she was having a hard time in the current. If she's fine, then you could leave her in that tank.
That's a good question about the female bettas. I have never had any females, but it does make sense that they could tolerate a little more current since the fins are shorter than the males'. It would be apparent if she was having a hard time in the current. If she's fine, then you could leave her in that tank.
saffikeagan
Aquarium Advice Freak
The tank she's in has an adjustable filter flow. I just have it down to minimal and assume that it will be okay as I don't have a high bioload in her tank. In Sammie's tank, well, there's all sorts of jerryrigged stuff going on to kill the current because he just gets in a foul mood if he has to deal with any movement.
I had 6 white clouds. 5 are doing great. One of the males just hung out by himself, wouldn't eat, etc. I finally pulled him from the tank, put him in QT, and when I finally realized how skinny he was (despite feedings) compaired to the others, I euthanized him. He wasn't swimming around or anything even in QT. I don't know what was wrong with him except maybe that he just was not happy and gave up. The other white clouds go on with their lives, swim about, get fat with eggs, and have no compunction about trying to make off with a betta ball or two if Sammie's not paying close attention to his food (he gets a few balls, then they all get flakes).
Online stuff says that white clouds are fine in pretty much anything from cold water up to the bottom half of the tropical range. However, as it is summer here in Texas and there is no place in my apartment that ever gets below about 80, they are just going to have to deal. I don't see any behaviour from them indicating that they are not tolerating the temperature. The dude at my LFS states that they always keep bettas and white clouds together as they are from the same region. I'm not stating that I fully trust anyone at a LFS, but this dude's pretty okay.
I had 6 white clouds. 5 are doing great. One of the males just hung out by himself, wouldn't eat, etc. I finally pulled him from the tank, put him in QT, and when I finally realized how skinny he was (despite feedings) compaired to the others, I euthanized him. He wasn't swimming around or anything even in QT. I don't know what was wrong with him except maybe that he just was not happy and gave up. The other white clouds go on with their lives, swim about, get fat with eggs, and have no compunction about trying to make off with a betta ball or two if Sammie's not paying close attention to his food (he gets a few balls, then they all get flakes).
Online stuff says that white clouds are fine in pretty much anything from cold water up to the bottom half of the tropical range. However, as it is summer here in Texas and there is no place in my apartment that ever gets below about 80, they are just going to have to deal. I don't see any behaviour from them indicating that they are not tolerating the temperature. The dude at my LFS states that they always keep bettas and white clouds together as they are from the same region. I'm not stating that I fully trust anyone at a LFS, but this dude's pretty okay.
An t-iasg
Aquarium Advice Addict
LOL about the white clouds stealing the betta pellets! I do remember about the sick white cloud
It sounds like you should try to put Sammie in the tank that the female is in now, if he hates any current. Are the 3 otos in there? If Sammie ignores the kuhlis, then he would probably ignore the otos.
It sounds like you should try to put Sammie in the tank that the female is in now, if he hates any current. Are the 3 otos in there? If Sammie ignores the kuhlis, then he would probably ignore the otos.
Here's a nifty trick I've used before when trying to reduce current in a small tank:
DIY trick for reducing current flow
Another thing I've done to reduce flow even more is to grab an extra filter sponge (or anything similar to that) and rubber band it so that it is right up against the filter outflow. That cuts down the force of the current to almost zero.
And the last trick that can sometimes be used (especially if you need to reduce current just a little bit and not a lot) is to strategically position a large piece of driftwood (or any other rock/decoration) so that it is right in front of where the filter outflow comes.
DIY trick for reducing current flow
Another thing I've done to reduce flow even more is to grab an extra filter sponge (or anything similar to that) and rubber band it so that it is right up against the filter outflow. That cuts down the force of the current to almost zero.
And the last trick that can sometimes be used (especially if you need to reduce current just a little bit and not a lot) is to strategically position a large piece of driftwood (or any other rock/decoration) so that it is right in front of where the filter outflow comes.
saffikeagan
Aquarium Advice Freak
I had bought a plant mat and ended up not liking the whole thing in my tank, but I did cut out a square of it, and with the assistance of some yarn tied to the vents on the top of the filter cover, that sucker is wedged in nice and tight so the water coming out of the filter goes 1 million and 1 different ways leaving the tank virtually still. My only concern is a lack of O2 from the lack of any surface agitation, but none of the fish are complaining yet.
I think he would leave the Otos alone also. All my patients keep asking if there are any fish in the tank because they don't really see the Otos and Zebbie just isn't a big flashy male betta. I might think more about that possibility. Sammie would definitely be noticed
I think he would leave the Otos alone also. All my patients keep asking if there are any fish in the tank because they don't really see the Otos and Zebbie just isn't a big flashy male betta. I might think more about that possibility. Sammie would definitely be noticed
saffikeagan
Aquarium Advice Freak
The saga continues.
So I noticed today that Sammie's fins were in a huge regression again. The only thing I can think is stress. So, It looks like I have no choice but to swap him with Zebbie and put her in my main tank and take him to work.
He's now lounging in QT again and Zebbie is in the main tank exploring. She's taken a few swipes at the baby snails that are on the glass, but doesn't seem to actually be able to eat them. My water is reading about .5 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 5 nitrates. I did just add some water to the tank so I'll test again in the morning to make sure that the ammonia is back down to zero. Zebbie now seems to be ignoring the white clouds though in her exploration of the tank she zeroed in on a kuli and gave a little chase. I'll cross my fingers and hope. Her gills seem almost healed, though her color around her face and down her back hasn't come back yet. I'll try to post some pics as I can.
So I noticed today that Sammie's fins were in a huge regression again. The only thing I can think is stress. So, It looks like I have no choice but to swap him with Zebbie and put her in my main tank and take him to work.
He's now lounging in QT again and Zebbie is in the main tank exploring. She's taken a few swipes at the baby snails that are on the glass, but doesn't seem to actually be able to eat them. My water is reading about .5 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 5 nitrates. I did just add some water to the tank so I'll test again in the morning to make sure that the ammonia is back down to zero. Zebbie now seems to be ignoring the white clouds though in her exploration of the tank she zeroed in on a kuli and gave a little chase. I'll cross my fingers and hope. Her gills seem almost healed, though her color around her face and down her back hasn't come back yet. I'll try to post some pics as I can.
saffikeagan
Aquarium Advice Freak
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This morning I noticed that not only does it look like Zebbie's fins are thinning and starting to recede, the sores on her gills that had been completely healed are back again as big as they were initially.
What I've done since Saturday:
Yesterday I did a small PWC of about 12% to do some gravel vacuuming (I had done a larger PWC on 8/29 of 20%), finished topping off the tank on 8/30, added some floating hornswart (?), a ball of live java moss, and a wisteria, and an apple snail.
Why am I having so many problems? Should I treat the entire tank this time?
Here are my parameters:
gH 75
kH 40
pH 7.8
Ni 0
NH 0
Na 5
My water parameters are excellent, I have no idea why I keep having problems. Zebbie is ignoring the white clouds and the kuhlis so it doesn't seem she's stressing over them. I guess the plants or the snail could have been carrying something so that would mean treating the entire tank, right?
This morning I noticed that not only does it look like Zebbie's fins are thinning and starting to recede, the sores on her gills that had been completely healed are back again as big as they were initially.
What I've done since Saturday:
Yesterday I did a small PWC of about 12% to do some gravel vacuuming (I had done a larger PWC on 8/29 of 20%), finished topping off the tank on 8/30, added some floating hornswart (?), a ball of live java moss, and a wisteria, and an apple snail.
Why am I having so many problems? Should I treat the entire tank this time?
Here are my parameters:
gH 75
kH 40
pH 7.8
Ni 0
NH 0
Na 5
My water parameters are excellent, I have no idea why I keep having problems. Zebbie is ignoring the white clouds and the kuhlis so it doesn't seem she's stressing over them. I guess the plants or the snail could have been carrying something so that would mean treating the entire tank, right?
happygirl65
Aquarium Advice Addict
Zebbie probably wasn't cured completely or the infection may hve been resistant to whatever you treated her with. Did you do a 10 day course of meds? Or did you stop when she looked better?
I would put her in QT and do daily water changes and consider using maracyn and maracyn two in combination for the next 10 days. (I cured a couple of sick discus this way that were knocking on deaths door with horrible fin rot and ammonia burns when they arrived at my door.)
You posted that you put her in the tank and the ammonia was .5, this could have caused stress and if she wasn't 100% yet, it just came back stronger.
It is possible that the other fish were carrying something but doubtful if none of them are sick. You can certainly treat the entire tank if you wish, but be prepared for daily water changes as you may completely kill your bio filter. It is up to you.
If it were me, I would try the QT again. And when she is 100% still leave her in there for a few days until her immune system is back up and she is eating well, then move her back and she will be able to fight off whatever is causing it.
I would put her in QT and do daily water changes and consider using maracyn and maracyn two in combination for the next 10 days. (I cured a couple of sick discus this way that were knocking on deaths door with horrible fin rot and ammonia burns when they arrived at my door.)
You posted that you put her in the tank and the ammonia was .5, this could have caused stress and if she wasn't 100% yet, it just came back stronger.
It is possible that the other fish were carrying something but doubtful if none of them are sick. You can certainly treat the entire tank if you wish, but be prepared for daily water changes as you may completely kill your bio filter. It is up to you.
If it were me, I would try the QT again. And when she is 100% still leave her in there for a few days until her immune system is back up and she is eating well, then move her back and she will be able to fight off whatever is causing it.
