BN Pleco Question

[fltcrew21]

I just had 2 Clown Plecos die within 48 hours of each other and I can't figure out why. Water parameters are very good 0/0/5 pH 7.8 and 79 degrees.


The only thing I can think of is that they starved. All I can do is put wafers and wood in the tank, but I can't make them eat or even monitor their eating since they are so anti-social.

I have been putting 1-2 algae wafers in the tank as I turn the lights off for the night but I don't know if they were eating them.

The cory cats like them too (although I put bottom pellets in for them) and maybe most telling, is the two 3 inch goldfish nibble on them too.

Is it likely that those stupid GF are hogging the food?

The tank has 6 pretty small cory cats, 7 Black Phantom Tetras and two 3" GF. Of course it HAD two Clowns.

I am going to replace them with a couple of BN Plecos this weekend and I want to make sure I am not doing something wrong.

 

[Brookster123]

Two things.. Goldfish are pigs that were most likely eating all the food, secondly goldfish are cold water fish that really shouldn't be in a tropical tank. How big is the tank?
Edit. 36 gallon? Move the goldfish, should have a problem, I feed my bn shrimp pellets and omega one veggie wafers and they love them!

 

[Kirrie]

What size tank do you have? It sounds like you have some overstocking and compatibility issues. First of all, goldfish are cold water fish and the rest of your fish are tropical. They should not be kept in the same tank because they have different needs. No matter what you do, heat the tank or let it go, the tropical or the goldfish would be stressed. The tropical fish need temps around 78, but the goldfish would be stressed in temps that warm.

Also, goldfish are large fish that produce a lot of ammonia. Because of this they have pretty big tank requirements. A single adult fancy needs 55-75 gallons to itself. A single common or single tailed goldfish needs over 100 gallons due to its potential size, and would really be better off in a pond.

I would avoid adding any other fish until you can get the goldfish and tropical fish separated and in proper sized tanks.

 

[fltcrew21]

Tank 36g

The tank is 36g and I just raised the temp to 79 to speed the cycle along.

It is finished and I'm slowly cooling the tank down to 75.

I'm planning to get rid of the largest of the 2 GF when I can but my daughter loves the smaller one and it will have to cope for now I'm afraid.

Their upper range should be okay with my tropical's lower to mid range temp huh?

 

[Brookster123]

+ 1 with kirrie, your really going to have to consider moving the gf or you'll just have problems in the future.

 

[Kirrie]

Here is a great blog on goldfish: http://www.myaquariumclub.com/goldfish-101-11174823.html

The ideal temperature range for goldfish is 70-74, which is really not ok for tropicals. I would never keep my tropical tanks below 78. Cooler temps can stress them out and leave them more susceptible to illness.

Unfortunately, the 36 really isn't enough for your goldfish long term. He should be ok for now, but if you don't move him to a larger tank, their growth will be stunted. This means their bodies will stop growing while their organs continue to grow. This will lead to them dieing slowly and in pain.

Do you know what type of goldfish you have? Could you set up a separate, larger tank for them?

 

[fltcrew21]

But what about my Pleco question? I know the GF shouldn't be in water that warm and I would love to find a solution but I don't have one right now. The LFS will not take them.

My question was not about the GF really. I only mentioned them b/c they may be eating the shy Pleco's food.

The tank is planted with driftwood and water is good.

Any line of reasoning should conclude that stressed GF should not cause my Clown Plecos to die.

Does anyone know what I can do to keep a pair of BN Plecos from suffering the same fate as the Clowns?

I read that they eat algae better than Clown's and they are not as shy so they can be observed better too.

As I said, I'm slowly lowering my temp to 75. This should be good for everybody.

I found this online RE: GF tank temps. since that seems to be where the primary concern for a few lie.

Quote:

"A tank temperature of approximately 23°C/74°F will be high enough to encourage a good rate of growth in your goldfish, without being so high that your goldfish become stressed."

They are 3" fish right now and I do not plan on keeping them to maturity. They are only in there until I can find someone that wants them in their pond.


Now who knows anything about BN Plecos!?

 

[Kirrie]

How long did you have the two Clown Plecos? It is possible that they just weren't getting enough to eat with the corys and goldfish stealing their food.

Here is some more great information, but this time on plecos: http://www.myaquariumclub.com/a-beginners-guide-to-plecostomus-4260.html

Another concern that I forgot about is that plecos are known to suck the slime coats off of slower moving fish, especially at night when they are sleeping. This would include your goldfish. It is also mentioned in the link about pleco care.

With a school of tetras, a shoal of corys, and 2 goldfish, I think your tank is fully stocked if not over stocked at this point. I would wait until everything is sorted out before adding more fish to the bioload. You can check your stocking level and other compatibility issues here: AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor

 

[Hubert90]

But what about my Pleco question? I know the GF shouldn't be in water that warm and I would love to find a solution but I don't have one right now. The LFS will not take them.



My question was not about the GF really. I only mentioned them b/c they may be eating the shy Pleco's food.



The tank is planted with driftwood and water is good.



Any line of reasoning should conclude that stressed GF should not cause my Clown Plecos to die.



Does anyone know what I can do to keep a pair of BN Plecos from suffering the same fate as the Clowns?



I read that they eat algae better than Clown's and they are not as shy so they can be observed better too.



As I said, I'm slowly lowering my temp to 75. This should be good for everybody.



I found this online RE: GF tank temps. since that seems to be where the primary concern for a few lie.



Quote:



"A tank temperature of approximately 23°C/74°F will be high enough to encourage a good rate of growth in your goldfish, without being so high that your goldfish become stressed."



They are 3" fish right now and I do not plan on keeping them to maturity. They are only in there until I can find someone that wants them in their pond.





Now who knows anything about BN Plecos!?

I'm just gonna get straight to what u want to know I guess. bristlenose Pleco can be shy as well, they all have their own personality. I normally feed my Bristlenose an hour after the lights are turned off. If algae wafers isn't working. Try blanching some veggies, I feed mine cucumber or zucchinis once a week. U can experiment with different veggie and see what they like most. U should only leave the veggies in there overnight and take out the reminder (if any).

 

[Hubert90]

The tank is 36g and I just raised the temp to 79 to speed the cycle along.



It is finished and I'm slowly cooling the tank down to 75.



I'm planning to get rid of the largest of the 2 GF when I can but my daughter loves the smaller one and it will have to cope for now I'm afraid.



Their upper range should be okay with my tropical's lower to mid range temp huh?

Did u have your clown Pleco in the tank while it was cycling?? If so, that's most probably why they died.

 

[fltcrew21]

Stocking

I don't think I am over stocked at all. I know a 36 is on the small to medium size but I have 10 times filtration with a canister filter and it cycled with those fish in about 22 days.

It took 10 days for ammonia to even register even with that stocking and probably over feeding.

No, I don't think stocking has anything to do with it. I do think it starved because what else could it be? They eat wood though right? And I've had some veggies in there recently for over a day that never get touched. I've even seen algae wafer piece in the Sword's stems that anything hungry could have easily eaten in the dark. It is a mystery but apparently I was feeding them wrong or something.

No more Clown Plecos for me. I don't want a fish that I rarely see and doesn't eat algae anyway!

The largest GF is going to be given away or 'run away' soon but only because of how much he eats and scavenges.

Hopefully one of my neighbors has a GF pond in their landscaping and he can live there.

 

[fltcrew21]

Cycling Pleco Tank

Hubert,

I did daily water changes and monitored the parameters twice daily. And I used Prime every time to not only remove chorine but neutralize ammonia and nitrites.

Prime is designed to work for this purpose. Nearly everyone swears by it. You can google it online if you've never read about it. Great product.

The cory's and tetras are very happy and eating great. I think 99% of people polled would put Plecos on the most heartily in that list of 3... not the most fragile.

So I think we can rule that out.

 

[Hubert90]

I don't think I am over stocked at all. I know a 36 is on the small to medium size but I have 1 filtration with a canister filter and it cycled with those fish in about 22 days.



It took 10 days for ammonia to even register even with that stocking and probably over feeding.



No, I don't think sticking has anything to do with it. I do think it starved because what else could it be? They eat wood though right? And I've had some veggies in there recently for over a day that never get touched. I've even seen algae wafer piece in the Sword's stems that anything hungry could have easily eaten in the dark. It is a mystery but apparently I was feeding them wrong or something.



No more Clown Plecos for me. I don't want a fish that I rarely see and doesn't eat algae anyway!



The largest GF is going to be given away or 'run away' soon but only because of how much he eats and scavenges.



Hopefully one of my neighbors has a GF pond in their landscaping and he can live there.

I'm sorry but the reason why ammonia didn't registered in your test is because u were using prime to neutralise the ammonia. That's what prime does, it temporarily removes a chunk of ammonia from the equation allowing time for your filter to do catch up.

 

[Hubert90]

And maybe u should get one BN Pleco this time, instead of 2.

 

[fltcrew21]

Prime and Ammonia

Hubert,

I am new to this but I have done hours and HOURS or reading and research.

I am learning to say the least but I am under the impression that Prime neutralized the toxity of ammonia and nitrites without removing them.


Therefore ammonia and nitrites still register on the test kit results.

Is this what you understand happens as well?

If you have 5ppm ammonia and dose with Prime, I think you will still read 5ppm ammonia but it will not be in it's normally toxic form for 24-48 hours.

Am I making this up? I felt that was common knowledge among the experienced hobbits.

 

[Kirrie]

fltcrew21, I believe you are right about the Prime. It detoxifies ammonia and nitrites, but they will still show up on the test.

Many people find aqadvisor to be reliable as far as calculation stocking percentage and giving compatibility warnings. Most people would suggest staying around 80% stocked, according to aqadvisor, to provide room for error.

If you plug your tank information in however, you are at 112% stocked with just the tetras, corys, and a single goldfish. In actuality, you have 2 goldfish with plans for 2 more plecos. You are already overstocked and I would address that situation before adding any other fish. The plecos might be doable without the goldfish, but your tank would be far overstocked with both in the tank.

 

[Brookster123]

Pleco's are also doodoo factory's, along with goldfish there will a whole lotta poop in that tank..

 

[Hubert90]

fltcrew21, I believe you are right about the Prime. It detoxifies ammonia and nitrites, but they will still show up on the test.

Many people find aqadvisor to be reliable as far as calculation stocking percentage and giving compatibility warnings. Most people would suggest staying around 80% stocked, according to aqadvisor, to provide room for error.

If you plug your tank information in however, you are at 112% stocked with just the tetras, corys, and a single goldfish. In actuality, you have 2 goldfish with plans for 2 more plecos. You are already overstocked and I would address that situation before adding any other fish. The plecos might be doable without the goldfish, but your tank would be far overstocked with both in the tank.

Seachem prime and API test kit don't work when it comes to testing ammonia. Seachem advices people who is treating their tank with prime to use their own test kit. Go check it out if u want.

I would go into the details on why they don't work but it's a lot of typing and I'm lazy xD

 

[fltcrew21]

Stocking

I will only add 1 BN Pleco to replace the 2 Clowns and I'll be getting rid of the giant 3" GF.

That stocking program is great but it (understandably) assumes fully grown fish.

I feel like I have to mention again that those GF are not permanent residents. They aren't going to see 5"-6" or even the summer of 2014 in that tank.

There is no way two 3" goldfish today are causing my aquarium to be overstocked just because ONE DAY, they will be too big.

 

[Brookster123]

If it tests for ammonia and ammonium the test will not distinguish between the two and if either are present it will test positive,even after prime