Breeding

[gregerica]

Ok guys, I have a red platy who looks pregnant and a red swordtail who I also think is pregnant so I put them in a breeder awaiting fry...How can I tell for sure if they are pregnant or not?

Also, total I have 1 Female red platy, 1 Female red swordtail, 1 Female dalmation platy, and 2 male goldtwinbar platy...I would like to breed these, presumably if I were to get 1 of the opposite sex for all, the females will become pregnant, correct? How often will they give birth to fry? How long before I should put them in a breeder?

Thanks...

 

[myriam]

Check out this URL: http://fish.orbust.net/livebearers.html

You can also use the "Search" feature on this forum, and you will surely get dozens of links to similar threads. I think you will find that most people here seem to not recommend the breeder tanks/nets, but instead opt to put in more plants, rocks, etc. for the fry to hide in.

Good luck!

 

[gregerica]

Thanks, how many plants do you suggest? I have a decent number of plants right now, however I have about 11 fish, will that be a problem? Pretty much each plant is territory for one of my fish...

 

[myriam]

Do you have a planted tank? I just have plastic plants, but I have several in each back corner, all of differing heights/color/textures...makes a little "forest" for the fry to hide in. My fry like to just sort of hang out in the leafy areas and they have been safe from the bigger 'uns.

I also have some short, fuzzy "bootscraper" type plants here and there, and the fry like to hide in there, too. Then I have a small pile of rocks near the driftwood, and the fry weave in/out of the little gaps in the rocks, and hide in them as well.

I would also suggest reading more about the male:female ratios for livebearers. I think many here will attest that a 1:1 ratio will be immensely exhausting for the female! The recommended ratio is 1:3, but I'm sure even 1:2 would be better than 1:1.

 

[TankGirl]

I second Myriam's advice, as I am the reluctant breeder of black mollies! I provide absolutely no special conditions for the pregnant females or the fry, and I have more than I know what to do with. I have a male and 3 females in a 44-gal, and he seems to be able to keep things rolling no prob. This is a tank set up with heavy rockwork (for the future Africans to come soon...) and some valisneria that is trying to take over. Every few weeks I will see a group of about 12-16 babies, and they manage on their own until they are brave enough to gather at the algae tablet dinner table!

I think if you have enough females for each male (at least 3 females for every male, preferably more) and you leave things to nature, you will get viable fry that will grow to produce more generations, without worrying about breeder nets or boxes.

 

[gregerica]

Thanks guys, lot's of advice I appreciate.

 

[TankGirl]

I don't think you could have too many plants and structures in which to hide - so if there is any room for more go ahead and add it, as you essentially will have your built-in breeding net! My tanks tend to have a lot of plants and/or rocks or cave type structures, which some think make them crowded but I think it makes the fish more comfortable. Best of luck to you!

 

[gregerica]

Now, presumably, you could have 30 fry every three weeks...what do most people do with all these fish and why is it suggested to not use a breeder net/cage?

 

[TankGirl]

Well, I feed my other fish with the fry. It took me a while to get comfortable with this but when it looked like I would get overrun with fish that are not desirable to sell to a LFS, it was the natural choice. My other fish really love it, and though I am a bit squeamish about it, the other fish benefit greatly from the healthy, live food and my tank is not overstocked.

Many have lost their females, or she has dropped her batch of fry and they did not survive with the use of the breeder nets. I think it is stressful for the female as well as the fry, and for me at least, it is so much easier to just leave things alone. The less time fish spend being caught and moved, the better, IMO. This is not the case with all fish, and there are probably breeders of specific fish that would not attempt it without the breeder net, but when it comes to livebearers like platys, mollies and guppies you can have viable fry without any intervention at all.

 

[BrianNY]

Well, yes and no TankGirl. Mollies will not eat their offspring. Platys, guppies, and swordtails will. The use of breeder traps was introduced to the hobbyist to prevent them from eating the young.

I've found the most effective way to prevent cannibalism is to place the mother in small tank of her own which has been 1/4 filled with java moss. After the "blessed event", she can be removed and the fry cared for properly

 

[TankGirl]

Mollies will not eat their offspring.

Well I was certain some of mine had been eaten by the parents, since there are no other fish in the tank but mollies, but it must be attributable to normal mortality rates.

Definitely keep a close watch and separate parents from fry if you are selective breeding, as for certain colors or traits, as you will need to cull the fry. There is a lot of overbreeding of most livebearers that are available at the LFS, which makes some malformations occur from time to time.

 

[TankGirl]

Hey BrianNY-
This thing about mollies eating/not eating their babies has got me wondering, and now I need more info! My Baensch's does not cover this particular issue, other than generalities, so do you have a link about it?

I'm gonna catch mine in the gruesome act and post a pic!

 

[platylover]

I'm not sure if mollies eat their fry or not, but I just had a batch of platy fry and my two black lyre tail molly females were after those fry just as much as the platies that share the tank.

 

[tkos]

Just a note that you won't be able to sell those offspring and shouldn't give them away as you are probably making hybrids. Swordtails and platies are very close and will interbreed very easily. Selling them or giving them away may end up contaminating future lines.

 

[BrianNY]

Hey TankGirl, why do you want the link? Do you believe everything you read? . I never saw a thread on it, but this has been my past experience. So if you post a pic of mollies eating their young, it will destroy my faith in mollies as a species, and I'll never vote for a mollie for president of the US (LOL).

 

[TankGirl]

I don't believe everything I read, but I am an info hound! There is so much info out there on mollies, like to salt or not to salt, and I like to check out links that others have gotten good info from. You should see my bookmark file - HUGE!

I'm gonna catch 'em at it, somehow, some way - we gotta keep 'em out of office!

 

[Guppyman]

Molly Fry

TankGirl,

Most of my experience in the aquarium hobby has been species specific. There was about a two year stretch where I raised nothing but mollies of every size, shape and flavor. I have never seen a MORE cannibalistic livebearer. They make guppies look like they are "fasting." All livebearers eat their young. The weak and deformed first and the slow ones second. This is part of the rule of the "survival of the fittest" which only allows the best genes to be passed forward. Additionally, in the wild, it is estimated that upwards of 95% of all fry are lost to predation (of course, not only from their parents). Otherwise, at the rate these fish produce young and in the quantities they do so, there would be no room left for water.

Providing good hiding places and keeping the parents well fed will reduce the rate of predation, but you are just never going to raise a livebearer that will not eat it's own young. You have no way of knowing how many were born and you can't sit there 24/7 to watch them. Sure, I have seen livebearers stare at fry in front of their mouths. Why didn't they eat them? One - they were stuffed already with fry and food and two - yes, sometimes they just don't seem to care - but I wouldn't look upon that as parental concern!

Guppyman's Profound Fact of Life #17. "Big fish, eat little fish!"

Frank/Guppyman

 

[myriam]

Hmm, tkos, I didn't think about the interbreeding issue with regards to donating or trading fry to the LFS.

My black molly (rest her soul) must have mated with one of the red wag platies because I was expecting little black fry (I assumed she mated with the male black molly), and the fry are as orange as ever, with black tails and fins. And I am 100% sure they are her fry because I QT'd her on one side of the tank with a tank divider right before she gave birth. I did this because I wanted to see all those little black fry, so imagine my surprise when I came down one morning and there were about a dozen little orange fry. I don't know if she ate any, so Brian and TankGirl, I'm waiting for a resolution to this quandry

So what should I do with all these fry??? I have about 14! If I can't take them to the LFS and nobody I know wants them, what will I do? They are over an inch long now and as bright orange as ever. I need to get rid of them soon before they start messing up my water's numbers. Any ideas anybody??

 

[Guppyman]

So what should I do with all these fry??? I have about 14! If I can't take them to the LFS and nobody I know wants them, what will I do? They are over an inch long now and as bright orange as ever. I need to get rid of them soon before they start messing up my water's numbers. Any ideas anybody??

Well, just in case I haven't ruffled enough feathers today, please see GPFL #17 above. Surely you know someone with a nice big Oscar that is tired of eating feeder guppies. Variety is the spice of life. Even for an Oscar.

PLEEEZE don't say this is cruel. They're fish. I know it seems cold - but they're still just fish and even in getting eaten they serve a useful purpose by providing sustenance to another living creature. Read the label on your can of fish food. If it's high-quality - there's ground up fish in there, somewhere.

The important thing is that the fish are destroyed, one way or another. Sorry, but that's IMHO. Guess I didn't make many friend, today, eh? - Frank

 

[myriam]

Wahhh I know, they would do better to be feeder fish than to be polluting my tank with extra waste. But still, having watched them grow from fry-dom, I would have a tough time seeing them get chowed down, and an even tougher time just euthanizing them. These little fishies are my only pets for now, so all my pet-love goes into them. Frank, you are very lucky to have Baby!