Can you overlight plants?

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Rsquared333

Aquarium Advice Freak
Joined
Aug 7, 2004
Messages
287
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I have done saltwater and some cichlid tanks but I wanted to try out planted.

I have a left over 36" 2 x 96 watt coralife aqualight. I was wondering if I could use that on a new 25 planted tank. I would only use one 96 watt 10,000 k daylight bulb in it, giving me around 3.8 watts per gallon. I would plan on growing some easier plants such as anubis, java fern, Watersprite, Wisteria, and crypts. Some easy stuff to get me into this side of the hobby. My question is whether having that much light will promote algae growth more than my plant growth, or would it just make the plants grow faster? I know I would need co2 to offset it. TIA for your time.

Tank stats:

Tank- 25 gal
Filter- Fluval 205 canister (probably will add an aquaclear as well)
Heater- 100 watt
Co2- diy with hegan diffuser
substarate- pool sand
 
Should be fine...the CO2 will make all the difference where the algae is concerned...without the CO2, algae would be an issue at that sort of wattage. Just a note, though, keep those Anubias in a shady part of the tank...they do not appreciate intense light much.
 
Thanks for the quick respose!

Good thing on those anubias as in my aquascaping plans they were going to be under/around some driftwood.

I figured the amount of light would open me up to some more intermideate to advanced plants but I would only go for Ludwigia at the most probably

What ppm should the co2 be at or is that not how you meausure it? and is there a kit? i was planning on a 1 gal diy mix with the hagen diffuser that looks like a ladder.

congrats on your 6000th post Toirtis!!!
 
That's a bit of light, lol. For the plants you are wanting, even the ludwigia, even a 50/50 bulb would work great for your needs. Like Toirtis said, the anubias will need some cover, as that is a pretty intense bulb.

As for CO2, you should shoot for a minimum of 25-30ppm. You will also need a ph test kit and a kh test kit to calculate the approx. CO2 levels in the tank. Here's the calculator.

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm
 
I would prefer not to jump in to too advanced of plants right away. YOur 50/50 bulb idea would be able to keep me down with these plants right ( i read that akinic lights don't do anything for plants)? I am just trying to find a way to start this tank without having to buy a new light setup.
 
You are correct. With the 50/50 bulb, that gives you half the total usable wattage, which is a good starting point. Then down the road, gives you the option of upgrading to a full bulb without having to purchase a new fixture.
 
You may want to look at the lumens/sq in links posted in the lighting sticky as a response. It will provide a better approximation of light than wpg for your tank size.

Or post your tank dimensions and we can do the calcs for you.
 
Don't go for the 50/50 bulb. What is the point of getting everything balanced and then boosting you lighting and having to rebalance everything. Aquariums are all about balance - Don't change ANYTHING unless you have do. The best way (IMHO) is to control your plants/algae by fertilising correctly and keep your CO2 and lighting constant.

I run 4 watts of light per gallon and have never had any algae (I have a glossostigma lawn, you should try it it looks amazing) The key is to plant the whole tank out with fast growing plants, I use blue stricta, that will easily out compete algae .When you fertilise measure the Iron and Phospates and do not refertilise until there is NOTHING left. Take a note of how long it took the tank to deplete the fertiliser and do some division so that you are fertilising every two or three days with the correct amount. Always measure your Iron and phosphate levels (Phosphate will be the slowest) before fertilising and adjust your the amount accordingly. By using a 2/3 day cycle Algae will not be able to get a hold on your tank.

Once your filter is cycled and everything is nicely balanced you can start putting in the plants you want. Do this in time with your 2/3 day fertilising cycle, so you are constantly monitoring any change the different plants are causing (Your fertiliser requirements will probably reduce), and change the dosage accordingly.

I know this sounds like a lot of effort but once the tank is running well you will be able to go longer and longer without checking your levels and can avoid algae completely

With this amount of light you should really try some Glossostigma - It really looks amazing if you can get it going.
 
1) is 96w with 50/50, 2) 96w daylight, 3) 2 x 96w with one 50/50, and 4) 2 96w daylight bulbs. This assumes the actinic counts as nothing, which may not be accurate since some of actinic's output is in the photosynthetic spectrum. You want to compare these values to this.

Code:
	    Eq T12 wpg	 Lumens	Lumens/sq in
1) 48w CF	 2.59	 3811.2	10.59
2) 96w CF	 5.18	 7622.4   21.17
3)144w CF	 7.76	11433.6	31.76
4)192w CF	10.35	15244.8	42.35

If you really like hard plants and get into high leaf density/packing/color, essentially emulating Travis Simonson in the above survey and this forum, you may find 3) appealing. Otherwise, as LWB and others said, 96w CF will grow anything you want, and your success with such will only be limited by command of nutrients and CO2.

With 2) and higher, you should attempt to keep nominal CO2 output of DIY above 30ppm. In other words, don't care about the average or the range, just what the lowest levels are. This will likely require a better diffusor; active diffusor plans are in the CO2 sticky and there are great examples in the DIY forum, and you could plumb one inline to your cannister.

You're going to do great with your plan. You have lots of saftey room to learn ferts, experiment with keeping CO2 high, and grow your current plants with the 48watts.
 
Thanks for the great info!!!

Looks like a 50 50 or 96 watt will be a great way to start this new aspect of the hobby. I like that Glossostigma skulljug, it is really tempting me to go with the 96 watt and higher light plants.

Looks like a have some more research to do on these fetilizers and testing (saw the sticky)

Anyone know of good test kit brands?

If I can get a handle on the understanding of them and the CO2 I would really like to try for the higher light.

Thank you to everyone. You have been a great help!!
 
I was in your shoes and just decided, I'm just going to go for it, and purchased all my CO2 gear. And I knew nothing on how to set it up, lol. But I'm glad I did, as it's actually easier than I expeted it to be. I'm injecting CO2 via a 5lb bottle, Milwaukee regulator, needle valve, and solenoid, and a ph controller. I also have a powered reactor. Now looking to get a 2nd setup for my 29G. You will find that once you start, it will be easier than you expect.
 
Website

http://www.thekrib.com

Good luck with it - I still say go high light straight away - But fiddling is the best way to learn in this hobby anyway.

The above website is an awesome site, i have been refering to it for years and it helped me design my current setup (Which I reckon is a good as I can get it)

Enjoy!
 
Anyone know of a good place to buy chemical fertilizers in phoenix, AZ or online?

I just found gregwatson.com they seem pretty good. Anyone know if they are, of anywhere else online, or any good LFSs
 
Rsquared333 said:
Anyone know of a good place to buy chemical fertilizers in phoenix, AZ or online?

I just found gregwatson.com they seem pretty good. Anyone know if they are, of anywhere else online, or any good LFSs

That's what the most of us in here use. We mix our own, or dry-dose. For the greg watsons, here's what I got:

Potassium Nitrate.
Mono-Potassium Phosphate
Potassium Sulfate.
CSM+B
Iron Chelate
Magnesium Sulfate

I use the nitrate, phosphate, and potassium to dose my macros, and the CSM+B with extra iron chelate and magnesium sulfate to dose my micros on alternate days.
 
Lonewolfblue said:
That's what the most of us in here use. We mix our own, or dry-dose. For the greg watsons, here's what I got:

Potassium Nitrate.
Mono-Potassium Phosphate
Potassium Sulfate.
CSM+B
Iron Chelate
Magnesium Sulfate

I use the nitrate, phosphate, and potassium to dose my macros, and the CSM+B with extra iron chelate and magnesium sulfate to dose my micros on alternate days.

I had planned on buying the

potassium Nitrate (5-20 ppm lower if I have red or colored plants, about 1000-2000 g in 500ml of water)

potassium sulfate (15 ppm, 3150 g in 500 ml of water)

mono potassium phosphate (0.5-1.5 ppm, 72-144 g in 500 ml of water)

and Plantex csm+b for trace minerals

I saw that the Iron Chelate is to support the iron in plants which apparently is pretty important and not usually made up for with other ferts. I did see Plantex csm+b plus iron mentioned here but didn't see it on the site, would that suffice?

What is the magnesium sulfate for?

Also what kind of ppm are you looking to hit with your micros or is that just an every other day supplument that has instructions on the box?

also am I understanding the dosages right with the amounts I put up? If it is right when do i dose? when there are no nutrients left? when they get under my "goal" ppm? or on set days?

Thank you for you patience
 
Your solutions for the macronutrients and resulting targets are fine if you do 1mL doses, but that is difficult without a pipette. Instead, consider diluting the solution to give a nice, easy to measure dose, like 5mL/tsp. For example:

(I am calling your 25gal tank 20gals of water after displacement of substrate and sutff)
75grams KNO3 in 500mLs = ~15ppm NO3 per 5mL/tsp dose
16grams KH2PO4 in 500mLs = ~1.5ppm PO4 per 5mL/tsp dose

Do this three times a week and you are well past your potassium target, but still add K2SO4/potassium sulfate if you'd like. Better to dose to these levels or higher when starting, which helps keep algae away while you learn dosing and nutrient uptake.

The other option is dosing dry, which Chuck's calc and the fertilization sticky also covers.

I saw that the Iron Chelate is to support the iron in plants which apparently is pretty important and not usually made up for with other ferts. I did see Plantex csm+b plus iron mentioned here but didn't see it on the site, would that suffice?
The CSM+B+Extra Fe is an old experimental mix from Greg Watson that is no longer available. CSM+B has plenty of Fe though, and you can skip the Fe chelate. If you are the experimenting type and think you'll want to mess with Fe alone later, then it is wise to pick it up now.

What is the magnesium sulfate for?
Magnesium/Mg is a critical micronutrient but you likely already have it available in tap. If I were you I'd skip this. Later if plants show Mg deficiency or you have reason to believe Mg is too low, it is easy and cheap to pick up MgSO4 as Epsoms Salt at the 99 cent or grocery store. Saves on shipping cost, too :)

Also what kind of ppm are you looking to hit with your micros or is that just an every other day supplument that has instructions on the box?
Your target is .1-.2ppm Fe, which also serves as a proxy for everything else in CSM+B. You can go higher or lower, but this is a good range to start with.

Here is a CSM+B solution calculator. Like Chuck's online calc you can measure dry dosing by entering 1mL of water for the trace mix and a 1mL dose.

You dose every other day but not at the same time as you dose PO4 (they can form a percipitate and fall out of solution).

also am I understanding the dosages right with the amounts I put up? If it is right when do i dose? when there are no nutrients left? when they get under my "goal" ppm? or on set days?
You understand it fine. I only suggest diluting your mixes so you have easier dosing and less of a PITA.

You can handle dosing one of many ways, but here's two:

A) Dose the macros above three days a week, every other day, say MWF. Dose the micros on the "other days," say Tu, Th, Sat. Do a 50% water change once a week so nutrients do not run away from you. Only test if you're curious. This is The Estimative Index.

B) Do a 50% water change and dose to the target range of your post. You'll test NO3 and PO4 three or so times a week and dose to bump their levels back to your targets. (Trust the dosing levels from these calculators more than your test kit to figure out how much to add.) You still want to dose micros several times a week, and there is no reliable test for them, so just do it blindly according to the calc and your targets. Again, continue to change water on your schedule for the fish and to ensure the nutrients stay balanced.

With A or B, you'll still use algae and nutrient indicators in plants to figure out if you need to tweak your dosing/targets. We will of course help with this.

Excellent questions. You're going to do great.

HTH,
Joe
 
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