De-nitrator construction

[Brenden]

I started this thread to keep from leeching on vsnsofadrgn's thread. Please post if you have made a de-nitrator. How did you make it? Anyone ever used the bucket of sand setup. I may make one for fun just to see how it does. I am thinking I do not need it with a fuge but I guess redundancy may be a good thing. Also if I make the coiled one what formula do I use to figure out what size PVC, length of tube, etc that I need?

 

[Brenden]

Come on now people. Somebody has had to try it, or know something.

 

[tecwzrd]

I think it’s the “holy grail” of fish keeping but I keep reading about how they fail over months/years. I think we are all doomed to pwc for the rest of our lives

I thought that a fuge was the way to go nowadays for no3 control.

 

[greenmaji]

Ive only looked into it.. and your not getting any responces about it so here it goes.. :?
Have you checked out any of the DIY plans for coil denitrators online?
They would need scaled up (from the way I understand they work useing them in series wouldnt help much) I would think for a tank as large as yours.

Ive also read some ok ideas on trying the bucket of sand (putting it at the end of the line in your filtration system so it will not acumulate debis so that it would not need sand sifters, ie if it becomes a mess you can just toss dispose of the sand) I havent seen word if this works or not yet (a admin on a diffent forum is trying it on his system) but.. a bucket of sand would take quite a while to work IMO

 

[Guest]

In most of the articles I have read about the De-Nitrators failing, it was due to lack of commitment to them by the owners. They tend to require care for one to continue working properly. From what I gather, the once thought method of keeping one that did not require feeding, failed due to it either working too good, and the bacteria dying because of lack of food source(no nitrate to feed on), or food supply to keep it fed when there is not nitrate for the bacteria to consume.

I haven't kept one for long due to the maintenance, and that is why I believe my first sentence to be true. I know I am not the only one.

I do however believe that if one had the time and the commitment level to keeping up a consistent maintenance (calibrating the amount of food to feed it, flow rate as to not be too fast or slow)schedule for the de-nitrator along with all the other maintenace schedules, one might keep one going for the life of the aquarium.

 

[greenmaji]

How much achohol would one have to feed one of these things timbo2?
I havnt seen the recomended amount for the pre-fab one in a while.. I cant remember..
just curious if you knew off-hand

 

[Guest]

Well, I believe, and I may be wrong, but for starters, I would imagine at least 5ml per week?

Of course that would depend on the size of the denitrator... Again, that is not an exact science, resulting in why so many have failed... It is not that it doesn't work, or failure is evedent, it is just too darn hard to calibrate without a lot of experimenting and making it work for you... If you are not a scientist/chemist, like I am not, it gets frustrating.. I have a problem also, with feeding Vodka to my tank.. What is too much? I do not know....

 

[tecwzrd]

Do they have an alcoholics anonymous for fish Can’t a fuge also help with no3 reduction and isn’t it relatively easier to maintain than one of these units? Plus I thought reverse lighting a fuge opposite your main helped with maintaining PH levels.

I haven’t seen my no3 go above 5 ppm in years even when I kept cichlids fully stocked and that was just doing a pwc of 10% each week. For the last 4 months it’s been 2.5 ppm or undetectable, maybe I’ve just been lucky.

Found a “cheap” one from AquaMedic that supposedly can be used for up to 500 gal tanks.
http://www.aquadirect.com/catalog/filters/aquamedic.htm

 

[Brenden]

Timbo you said one of the issues with failing was "bacteria dying because of lack of food" If I built a normal size one for my tank you think it would still be a issue? It could never consume it all, only help keep it low. I can not see how that would cause it to completely fail. I can see where you would have a ever changing amount of bacteria but there would always be a food source as long as you have something in your tank. I had also read of people putting 5ml of vodka in once a week for food. if it came to that I think I would pass. Sounds like to much of a risk.
Another question. Coils on the inside or outside of cylinder? I do not see where it would matter if they were outside and then you could increase your bacteria media in the cylynder. I have a box of bioballs that came with my wet/dry so all I need is some pipe and hose. I may have to try this minus the vodka idea.

 

[Guest]

The vodka technically in that amount is harmless... It also would not work in a stricktly Bio-Ball setup.. You would have to have the sponge in the center of the mass to house the food... This is where the vodka would be injected. The bacteria would colonize the sponge and surrounding areas, but the center would be the source of food, or the nucleus if you will.. I think I am going to try another one when I build the 75gal setup...

 

[Brenden]

Was the one you had before a bioball setup? How long did it run? Do you have to take it apart weekly to add the vodka?

 

[Guest]

Yes, I think it was about 6 to 7 months, and no... I didn't try the fed method.. I also remember that it worked, my tank was at 0 nitrate. It remained that way for about 2 months and one day I smelled rotten eggs. Flow was too low... I then took it out with intentions of putting it back after it sat fallow for a while.. Mistake...You have to remember that when stuff dies, it lets off gas... I guess I tilted it the worng way and that smelly water shot out of it and stunk up the whole apt.. I was shocked to say the least..I got rid of it...

 

[MadManMac]

I built mine using the tubing on the outside of a 2.5 gallon platic pickle jar. I had about 60 feet of tubing coiled around the outside and then passing the flow through teh top via smalll hose barb connections. Then the whole jar was filled with bio-balls. the input had a tube going to the bottom of the unit and a second barb connector at the top for the outlet. I put the feeding tube in as an extra, you could eaily feed the unit by putting the food through the intake tub. It would eventually get pushed into the unit and feed the bacteria. If Vodka gives you issues, you can use a simple mixture of sugar and water. It is not quite as effective but does the same thing. After about a month, testing every other day, I saw 0 across the board for Nitrite and Nitrate and then started to feed 5ml per week. I missed a week all the time and never saw any fluctuation. to avoid the Sulfur problem, keep the drip going as quickly as possible without producing Nitrite and once you get that figured out it gets really simple. I have a really good fuge, so this is not that important to me, I just like to build equipment and see how it works. I will try and get some pictures to post that show my De-Nitrator.

 

[Brenden]

If I get a 6" piece of PVC around 24" long, and use 100' of 1/4 hose, fill it with bioballs, put a sponge in the middle with a hose going to it so bacteria can party once a week,with a flow equal to 12 drops a second, do you think I will be OK? Sorry for the run-on sentence but it is a forum. I always hated grammar anyways.

 

[MarineFlake]

hth..

http://digitalcheese.ca/gallery/album11

http://www.aloha.net/~hqf/indexdondenitrator.htm

http://aquaripure.com/nitrates.htm - if your in the spending mood..

http://archimedes.galilei.com/raiar/denitrif.html

http://ozreef.org/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,109/Itemid,4/

 

[MadManMac]

I do not see any need for a sponge, that is what the bio-balls are for. The bacteria will grow in them and the vodka will flow accordingly. As for the 12 drops per second, that would really be a flow not drops and it will depend on the unit itself. It sounds like a decent level, but you should test the output for nitrite and nitrate to make sure. Adjust accordingly and it shoudl live forever.

 

[Brenden]

I know 12 drops per sec would be a stream I guess I should have said flow equal to 12 drops per second. I wish I could count that fast. Do you suggest that vodka should be added? If so just feed it it the coil tub?

 

[tecwzrd]

I’m really confused on how something that only filters a couple of drops a sec can rid your tank of no3? I’ve read a ton of articles on the subject and all state it has to be a slow drip or else you wouldn’t rid the oxygen out and it would just act like a wet dry. Also how do you implement such a slow drip, with a 1 gph ph/pump? I’m not trying to be negative, just having a hard time figuring out how this works.

 

[Brenden]

I agree tec. It would take a year for it to process all my water. I was hoping someone would be the guinea pig but no one stepped up. I was just going to try it for the group. If you want to drive then go for it.

 

[tecwzrd]

Actually I think even a relatively small one would work for you as well.

I did some more research and it takes 76,800 drops of water to equal a gal of water filtered. Most are talking about 3-5 drops per sec which comes out to over 5 hours to filter just one gal of water or roughly 4 to 5 gal a day. I can understand how filtering 5 gal of water a day can lead to 0 no3 but I just have no concept of how to limit the flow to 4 or 5 gal. I can only guess that you feed a small part of your ph/pump on a gate valve to limit the flow
http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/application.htm

With your setup I’d just have 4 of these running side by side which could filter 20 gal a day or 140 gal a week which in your case would be enough