Discus

[AdamsZoological]

What types of Mbuna? Some genera are much more aggressive than others, and therefore need to be kept in a different manor, I've seen cases where understocked Mbuna have done fine, but, I've personally maintained over 18 different Mbunas tanks, and 9 times out of 10, the overstocked tanks were much more peaceful, and harmonious.
Back to the Discus, instead of an argument in here, maybe a referance of material from an expert would help. I'm going to paste some key points from an article by John Benn. Mr. Benn is a writer for Aquarium Fish Magazine, has been a hobbyist for over 25 years, and is past president of the Federation of American Aquarium Societies and the International Betta Congress.

I recommend that aquarists just beginning with discus start with six to eight quarter-size fish. They should be housed in a 10- to 15-gallon tank to avoid stressing them during the first several weeks. As the fish grow, they can be moved to larger aquariums. Very young discus seem to suffer from stress when placed in a tank that is unnecessarily large.
When setting up a larger tank, choose an aquarium between 55 to 125 gallons in which the discus can grow to full adult size. When adults begin to pair off for breeding, they can be moved to 40-gallon breeder tanks. Some discus breeders, including Wattley, use 20-gallon "high" tanks for breeding, but I prefer 40-gallon breeder tanks, which are essentially square. Avoid overcrowding the tank with fish. A standard 55-gallon tank should house no more than six adult fish. A good rule of thumb is to allow 10 gallons per adult fish.

 

[QTOFFER]

I have seen this exact same type of discussion regarding tank requirements in the oscar forums. There are some who claim to be able to keep three happy, healthy, fully grown oscars in a 55 gal - probably thanks to heroic tank maintenance and some unusually non-aggressive oscars. Then someone else will get on and say one oscar in a 55 is irresponsible fish husbandry and the thread will degenerate into a verbal sparring match over who knows more, is a better fishkeeper, etc.

Please let's not sink to that level here.

Brian has obviously been keeping discus for quite some time and he probably knows enough about the species to be able to bend some 'rules'. AdamsZoological is preaching accepted discus husbandry and is likely concerned that a newbie might pop in here and be inspired to put 15 discus in a 55 gal tank.

I think both of you would agree that discus is a very demanding species that simply should not be kept by someone new to the aquarium hobby. Therefore, the number of gallons required per discus fish is irelevant to the newbie. It is, however, something that can be discussed between advanced aquarists in a calm and reasonable manner.

 

[Menagerie]

It is, however, something that can be discussed between advanced aquarists in a calm and reasonable manner.

Continuing in a calm and reasonable manner, while hijacking this thread:

Currently in the 80 gal are three Mbunas and a some SA/CA cichlids:
2 Pseudotropheus zebra (1 blue, 1 white), Blue Acara—Aequidens pulcher, Girraffe-like cichlid--Nimbochromis venustus, Jack Dempsey--Cichasoma octofasciatum, Powder Blue cichlid-- Pseudotropheus socolofi, Striped River Catfish--Mystus vittatus, common pleco and one ugly Synodontis.

Jack is reaching maturity and may have to live by himself soon--nasty little runt. That's what I get for listening to the people at the LFS!

Venustus swims at the top all the time and could care less for the ton of lace rock--the Acara doesn't make use of it either! Oh well, living and learning. Once the community tank is upgraded from 29 to 50 gals on Wednesday and the bb gobie tank is set up and the 29 gal is revamped into a Lake T tank...my fiancé and I will worry about the crazy cichlids in the 80 gal. Luckily, I wondered into a LFS specializing in cichlids. We had a long talk about compatibility, difference between territorial aggression and aggression because the other fish may be food (Jack!).


And back to Discus...If you have a link to the full article by John Benn, I’m sure many people considering Discus would like to read it.

 

[AdamsZoological]

I'm not trying to argue the point anymore, thats why I posted some key points from an article on the fish in question. And, I hadnt intended on getting into the 'whos a better fishkeeper' garbage, but, once it gets thrown in my face, or anyone's you respond like wise, I think big arguments on forums are pointless, and again, I point out, thats why I posted what I did, it's only a couple little pieces, but worth your while to read it over.

 

[AdamsZoological]

Menagerie, the reason the Acara, and the venustus arent bothering with the rock is because they're open water swimmers. Nimbocrhomis, although still from Lake Malawi, they aren't a Mbuna, they're a Haplochromine, which, are gernally, carnivorous, or omnivorous, open-water swimming, fish. Any fish from the Aequidens (Blue Acaras, Green Terrors, etc) are river dwelling fish, and are also somehwat used to swimming in open waters, more so than using caves and whatnot, the only hiding places they're used to utilizing, are plants, and mangrove root systems. And, as for the article by Mr. Benn, I'll paste a link to it at the end of this post...which by the way, has turned into a good one, I hate arguing, but I love debates.

http://petsforum.com/cis-fishnet/afm/G29001.htm

 

[AdamsZoological]

And yes, I'd think about getting Mr. Dempsey a new tank, real soon. I love big Central, and South American Cichlids, but they arent exactly the friendliest bunch in the world, generally. By the way, not a criticism, just letting you know, Dempseys are no longer in the Cichlasoma genera, they're now a Nandopsis species, often times when you see places using 'Cichlasoma', its because they cant find the proper, current taxonomical information of the species they are writing on, Cichlasoma seems to be a mask for any species of New World cichlids, that their scientific classification is in question.

 

[Menagerie]

Menagerie, the reason the Acara, and the venustus arent bothering with the rock is because they're open water swimmers.

I know and I knew that before spending too much money on lace rock. But if someone went out of there way for me, the least I would do is nap in it!!!! Fish are so uncaring about other people’s feeling!!!

I'd think about getting Mr. Dempsey a new tank, real soon

Jack will not be living here much longer. My fiancé and I cannot support more than 5 tanks. Actually, the apartment can barely support 5 tanks. Twice today I blew a circuit while using the microwave !!! The only extra thing on that circuit is a 2.5 QT tank with 25-watt heater and a sponge filter.

So, Kerrinne, now that you know you cannot keep Discus in the near future, you will probably not want any (mean, uncaring) cichlids either

 

[AdamsZoological]

lol sounds like quite the situation, but, I've been there. I can remember a few years ago, was living in a 3 bedroom appartment, two bedrooms were filled with reptiles cages, one with fish tanks, and 4 tanks in my living room, Didnt have any room for a bed in the place, so, I slept on my couch, which, I was lucky to fit in the place because of the bloody animals. Gotta love this hobby, hey?

 

[afilter]

WOW! a lot of action since I last checked my posts, I think this was originally about Discus. The one thing I have learned in all my years in the hobby is there is no one right answer only some better than others. I think I originally joined this thread to provide some basic pointers to people considering caring for discus. As you can see there are many different opinions out there. As I stated earlier I would encourage anyone considering this venture to do as much research as possible and learn what you can from others mistakes.

For anyone actually looking for information on Discus here are a couple of links where you can find some books from one of the masters,Jack Wattley, and a forum devoted just to discus:

http://www.wattleydiscus.com/index.htm

http://www.awforums.com/discus/default.asp

Discus are just like any other fish, you need to know the basic requirements and then try to provide them to the best of your ability. They are just a little more demanding and expensive than most fish. Don't be afraid of them, just do your research and have fun after all that is what this hobby is all about, learning and having fun.

Good luck,

 

[BrianNY]

Adamzoo. I've made over 550 posts without ever calling anyones methods insane or ATTACKING anyones credibility. I've tried to advance peoples understanding and enjoyment from this hobby in a friendly and encouraging manner. It was you who began this nonsense in such a hostile way.

I'm sure there are many ways to succesfully keep discus. If my way is so insane why have you not explained how my discus are pairing off and spawning? I'm not quoting from an article that's been written. I'm speaking from my personal success with this species. I sure hope that means something.

You do realize that making the statement that it would take you 5 minutes to find better looking fish than mine is both antagonistic and childlike? What basis could you possibly have for saying such a thing? More importantly, what is gained by making an idiotic comment like that? And you feel you've been attacked?

I wonder how many people reading this thread feel that an apology from you is in order? I would like to accept that apology and put this behind us. There's your olive barnch. Will you take it?

BrianNY

 

[Kerrinne]

So, Kerrinne, now that you know you cannot keep Discus in the near future, you will probably not want any (mean, uncaring) cichlids either

No no...no cichlids for me either. I like passive fish that allow you to keep more than one per tank. LOL

 

[AdamsZoological]

Brian.
This is the other half of AdamsZoological, I've been reading through this thread and I have to say I agree completely with everything Mitch has said.

Now onto your very last post, now I am offended, Mitch has taken the time to sit down and have an adult debate with everyone here except you. He's explained his position in detail, and found sources to back them up. You on the other hand seem to want to agrue. This thread had started to heat up but had calmed back down with an understanding of where everyone else was coming from, yet you have to continue to take personal digs and then have the nerve to ask for an apology. I thought this thread could continue in an adult manner but posts like your last one make that impossible.

I also have a few comments about something you said in a prior post........ you said you don't claim to be a discus guru but somehow feel you know more than us.
Don't make assumptions like that, I have been keeping fish for almost 25 years now. Discus have always been a passion of mine, I have spent the last 15 years doing indepth reasearch on them. I've also personally kept Discus, as a past LFS employee. the Discus tank was left COMPLETELY to my care, (in both of these cases the Discus under my care thrived) for a total of around 8 years of perosnally caring for Discus. So, I do speak from my own personal experiance when I say, the conditions you describe keeping your Discus in are far from optimal.

As for the pairing and spawning, many animals will live and breed in far from perfect conditions, it doesn't always mean they're happy and healthy.

Now before you go off and think I am attacking you, I am not suggestioning you purposely did anything wrong or cruel to your fish, I am only pointing out some problems I see and suggest that some changes are in order.

As someone else pointed out here, with experinence some rules can be bent, but only to a certain point, that many Discus in that small of a tank is WAY over that limit. However this thread was started by someone who to my understanding had no experiance with Discus, and advice like that will lead to nothing but frustration and heartache.

 

[Kerrinne]

Can someone please lock this topic now? My questions were answered, and this has turned into something I did not want it to be. Thank you.

 

[AdamsZoological]

I agree, if you happened to notice, I tried to stop this argument a while back, and someone decided they werent satisfied. That right there is what seems immature to me. I definately agree locking this topic would be a good choice.

 

[afilter]

Too bad egos need to get in the way of an otherwise good way to share information on a great fish.

I started a new thread for anyone that is interested in sharing ideas about keeping discus:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=19336&highlight=

If you are interested in discussing discus please feel free to join in since I am sure there is a ton of valuable information out there.

Please leave your egos at the door.

Thanks,

 

[AdamsZoological]

I just read that post myself, and I strongly suggest anyone interested should read it, some great info on general Discus husbandry.

 

[afilter]

Thanks, I just wanted to refocus the discussion on the fish. Even though I am no longer keeping discus myself I still find them fascinating.

 

[Allivymar]

Locked.