Fish in a filterless bowl?

[Michele]

oh. I know I know--I'm sorry about that. It's just that EVERYONE was and still is hasseling me about tank size and heating. I will take the individual needs of the fish into concideration and will research them before purchasing one. I'm not a monster. I just want to know if there is a way to oxygenate water enough so that fish can breath without a filter. AND I'd like to know about Kwenbee's octopus!

 

[jsoong]

Michele, sorry you are feeling harassed. Really, the people on this board are passionate about fish, and sometimes that rubs people the wrong way.

I understand the need for small tanks (no space) & no heater (Hey, I don't have one myself), we just have to figure out an appropriate fish for this setup.

Getting back to: can you oxygenate water without power or filtration ....

Short answer is - not easily.

A good fish book I once read put it like this: YOu can either go for all the fancy gadgets (big tanks, filters, etc.) & have it easy, or you can go low tech but that will involve a lot of work.

In theory, you can keep a goldfish in a simple bowl without anything - the Chinese had done that for centuries. However, the bowls are LARGE - they are more like vats - at least 30 or more gals. Plus, you will have to keep changing the water - several times a day at least - so there is always enough fresh oxygenated water around. Not terribly practical, is it? In old China, the rich used to have a servant totally dedicated to looking after the fish, changing water day & night just to keep the precious fish healthy!

Upping it in the scale of complexity, I supposed you can rig up a pressurized O2 or air tank & run it into the tank, that would give you surface aggitation & oxygenation. Or you can get the same effect with water constantly running into the tank (making it into a river) - they do that in trout farms. But these "solutions" are not too good in an office.

As I said before, plants won't help you, at least not at night - when they are not producing any O2.

So, I think we are back to the beginning. Get a betta in a half decent size tank.

<C.Fish, I know that show bettas live in 20 gal tanks, but I must say that a 2 gal setup would be adaquate & better than the accomodations of the majority of bettas sold in pet stores> *get ready to duck*

 

[Michele]

lol that's okay. I'm like that with birds. If I can supply light throughout the night though, would a few plants give off enough oxygen to support a fish other than a gold fish/paradice fish/beta ?

By the way, here's a link to something I think is really cool! Have you seen any imitations?http://www.nauticalhome.com/prodDetail.cfm/1061,8 Gal. BiOrb Kit Aquarium,MX0

 

[grimlock3000]

Michele, you need to say what you actually have for options and you will get good answers that pertain to your situation. Your previous answers and information are what is causing you to get harassed because you were simply pushing for information on how you could keep fish in a terrible environment that would quickly lead to the death of almost any fish.

"If I can supply light throughout the night though, would a few plants give off enough oxygen to support a fish other than a gold fish/paradice fish/beta ?"

If you left a light on all night, your first result would likely be a massive algae outbreak Also, as stated previously, office lighting is rarely enough to keep many aquarium plants alive. The short answer to your question is simply no if you want healthy fish. There will always be exceptions, like anything else.

Even if you had just a small air pump and a sponge filter you could provide a good ammount of filtration and oxygenation for less than $10, plus you get some cool bubbles in the tank.

Anyway, I would like to know what you are willing to do for a tank (heating, tank light, filter), and I am sure we can get you some good options.

 

[jsoong]

If I can supply light throughout the night though, would a few plants give off enough oxygen to support a fish other than a gold fish/paradice fish/beta ?

You can't fight mother nature! Plants are designed to have day & night. Plants need a dark period so they can use the sugars produced during the day for growth, repair, etc. 24 Hrs of light will kill plants just like not enough light.

PS - goldfish is not good choice for a small setup, for many reasons. Goldfish in bowls usu. live a few months, but properly cared for, the life span is 6-10 years (I think the record is 30+ years).

 

[jsoong]

Just read the bio-orb link. Yes, it looks neat. But, please, do not stock it like the picture (with 3 fancy goldies!) There was a thread here last year about those bio-orb things & the troubles that goes with it.

An eclipse 10 would be a close approx. to this setup (better IMO). If you can get something like that, you'll have much more choice in you fish. But it need electricity!

 

[Michele]

What I don't think anyone here wants to understand is I wasn't looking for options. Just an answer to the question "Can plants be used to oxygenate water?" I do not mean to be rude though. Complications such as algae growth is related and VERY much appreciated. That's not something I would have concidered and probably not something that a pet store would have told me.

Right now I'm thinking of just getting a beta bowl--vase sized (which I KNOW you won't aprove of!) It has a little light that shines over it which I think will heat the water somewhat. Also, the bowl would be near the computer which might help keep the water warm too.

Heh, of course I'm sure I'll want to give him a friend and THAT will lead to a bigger tank..lol, I always felt that fish get lonely.

Anyway, I wanted to temporarilly put a baby catfish in the beta bowl instead, just until it grew a bit. I saw a potential oxygen problem and since an airstone/pump would probably be too bubbly for such a small area, my mind went towards plants! That's my situation

 

[grimlock3000]

"Right now I'm thinking of just getting a beta bowl--vase sized (which I KNOW you won't aprove of!) It has a little light that shines over it which I think will heat the water somewhat. Also, the bowl would be near the computer which might help keep the water warm too."

You would be better off just keeping the bowl/vase away from a heat source altoghether. Changing temps caused by turning a light/somputer off and on are worse than a stable somewhat chilly temp.

 

[Michele]

really? thanks. What if it were on all the time? I wouldn't be turning the pc off really. Not even at night.

 

[Christmasfish]

<C.Fish, I know that show bettas live in 20 gal tanks, but I must say that a 2 gal setup would be adaquate & better than the accomodations of the majority of bettas sold in pet stores> *get ready to duck*

Heh!

Actually thoughthe puddle thing always pushes my button; I could accept the small body of water kept spotlessly clean (how the thai fighter breeders have done untold centuries a one gallon jar of specially cured water.) except for the office angle.
Especially if it gets combined with other negative things. One parameter being less than perfect is not what will overtax his little system.
I don't think that amount of water can offer enough protection from how cold offices get during evenings and weekends (ever work late and need your jacket?). And then you add the stillness of the water that with that amount can also read as stale.. If it is softened water in the building it will have no buffering ability at all......
Except in homey mom and pop offices I have never even seen plants prosper. I just don't have a good vibe with a more advanced living thing.

Remember the sad fate of my petmartco betta. Even filtrated, with a light on all the time to keep his tank at 70, plants and 0 readings across the board.....The temp in my house made all those bettas break out with ich AND finrot (it is usually 65-70 faar warmer than an office). My betta was in the one tank that had no heater. I had bought every small heater available in my area already. He had to be on a long medication regime. I finally drove 30 miles away to another petsmart and bought one. Though the ich began to clear and I could switch to a lighter med...too late. He died of metal poisoning. Least that is what my lfs guy thought on seeing his poor little corpse. He is now part of a pot of forget-me-nots.
If you start with a really healthy betta bought from a breeder, maybe you can get away with it..maybe. But the already stressed beyond belief retail betta is more likely to croak.

 

[Christmasfish]

BTW
Actually my daughter is real quality of life finicky...her show betta have a 2 custom tank orders that is nearly 40 gallons each and has a special filtration system tubes with carbon filter ends to allow flow rate controlled mechanical flow through the removeable dividers. She and the tankmaker designed it. They will have 2 Fluval BioLife35s and a UV sterilizer in a minitank/sump. And will be heavily planted witha co2 injector of some sort...(has to read box) its an enheim. and it wil be part of the sump set up to avoid a backpressure explosion into her tank (they Explode! 8O ) The tank is not here, it's backlogged. All the other supplies arrived this week.
MY remaining Christmasfish..... Dragon the Wild dwarf gourami and Alvilda the giant marble plakat share a divided 10 gallon.... I am so mean!

Between equipment and stock she has quickly run through the money it took her more than a year to save for this, plus the 700 seperate that she wanted to get a parrot with. She makes me feel like I don't love my fish enough.....

 

[Michele]

8O

 

[Michele]

Except in homey mom and pop offices I have never even seen plants prosper. I just don't have a good vibe with a more advanced living thing.

You should see the office building I work in--It's a sales place for T-Mobile "Where you always get More!" And it is a friggin' JUNGLE inside there! TREES--whole trees!!! My God..Anyway, betas and frogs and all sorts of plant life thrive in this working environment amongst tired, mal-nurished humans.

 

[Kwenbee]

Sorry, Michele...wasn't online much yesterday....

Yes, there is an octopus in my tank...and it's the easiest creature to take care of in there. He eats very little, and the ammonia/nitrite levels, no matter how high, don't seem to affect him. Of course, he's a bit "stiff"!

He is Bill the Betta's little hidey hole...completely ceramic. He's cute though, and I wish I could find another one for Jake. It has very smooth edges so I don't worry about Bill's fins tearing on it.

Seriously, I really think a betta is your best bet. They are very beautiful and ours have tons of personality.

 

[Michele]

Oh!

LOL! Thanks for the reply. And he looked so lively too..
I guess I could post this as a separate topic, but do you know why it is we never see them in pet stores? I saw on one web page that they are very dificult to care for. I bet a squid or something in the familly would be fascinating just because they are said to be so intelligent.

 

[Kwenbee]

I don't think they would be very popular, but I could be wrong (I personally think eels are disgusting, but others like them). They are salt water creatures, so maybe someone there may be able to answer.

We live in blue crab country. There is a restaurant we go to sometimes that have two salt water aquariums in the entrance with some eels and clown fish. One of the aquariums has an actual blue crab who somehow managed to not get steamed and eaten in a restaurant known for that dish.

And, by the way, I got blasted by some people for having Bill the Betta in a one gallon tank. I'm glad I moved him and Jake to a bigger tank, but don't let them stress ya!

 

[Michele]

Lol, thanks mmm blue crab sounds good! (muahahaha ) Poor shell fish

Just to be sure I have this straight, plants CAN be used to oxygenate a bowl or tank of water enough to keep non-air-gulping fish alive as long as a light is on throughout the night. However, this can cause an outbreak of algae so I might also need an algae-eating creature like a sucker fish or maybe a snail to combat it.

 

[grimlock3000]

"Just to be sure I have this straight, plants CAN be used to oxygenate a bowl or tank of water enough to keep non-air-gulping fish alive as long as a light is on throughout the night. However, this can cause an outbreak of algae so I might also need an algae-eating creature like a sucker fish or maybe a snail to combat it."

Then you would have another animal in the tank to eat the algae, which creates more bio load and which would need more plants... And when there would be no algae you would need to put in extra food. Also, plants need a day/light cycle, and leaving the light on all the time is very stressful to many fish. Most fish do "sleep" when the lights are out.

 

[Michele]

okay....Would you mind analyzing the "aqua babies"kit. It is horrible, but it does seem to work somehow (note: I would NOT keep anything in something so small). It is basically a handfull of water in an enclosed container with a few guppies, a plant (hornwart?) and a snail. The fish are fed a very small amount due to the tiny tank, and they are claimed to live a few years in this condition. Any ideas as to how it works?

 

[grimlock3000]

Keeping fish alive and keeping them healthy is totally different. Aquababies is a product sold to make a profit and cash in on people's impulse purchasing, not to keep animals healthy. People buying Aquababies are usually not going to care if the animal dies in a few weeks. Fish in Aquababies can barely swim around, so they expend almost no energy. They just sit there and try to breathe what little oxygen there is. You can actually keep a fish on brink of death for quite and extended period of time. The concept of Aquababies is to provide just enough oxygen in a small enough space that the fish will not move much and just barely be able to stay alive. Also, most Aquababies fish are very small when you get them, so they have low demands and will not die for a little while.

When someone at a retail store has to walk by the Aquababies daily to clear out all of the deads ones, you know they are not the most healthy environments around. As stated earlier, Aquababies have such a high death rate that have been pulled from store shevles in numerous places along with having the the SPCA and Humane Societies groups protest the product. For the most part, treatmeant organizations stay well out of fishkeeping, but the Aquababies were cruel enough to draw interest from both groups.