Help with ph!

[uncgirl1]

Hjsvt-

Thanks so much. You've explained the water part to me so that I actually feel like I might understand it. I took your advice and did the tests you recommended. The results are in the post above this one. I'm interested to see what you think about that. Also the fact that I remembered I had a qt tank I could test ph one. How stupid of me that I didn't think of that earlier! Anyway, let me know what you think about the test results. Also, I tested the ph tonight after the lights had been off for an hour and the ph was still 6. I will test again in the morning, afternoon, and evening. I'll post back here with those results.

You were also right in that I finally did see ammonia tonight in my tank.
.25! Ugggg, all that work and time fishless cycling and now it was for nothing!!! Anyway, let me know what you think. Thanks







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[Delapool]

Any new driftwood in the tank? Lots of new plants recently added? Do you gravel vac? Cloudy tank after a pwc?

Thanks for the 48hr test. At least tap settles to a fine ph.

Tanks tend to lower in ph over time as plants and bacteria consume kh as you know. I'd skip adding anymore fish or plants at the moment until this is sorted. It's all likely to lower ph further. I don't know how tank ph is so low and you still have kh though.

My kh in tap is 5 to 6 depending on season and I find I can maintain a tank kh of 4 to 5 with a 30% pwc weekly. So we should be able to get your tank stable - hopefully it is just settling in. I can only offer my thoughts and you can go from there.

I think your last pwc was 35%? If fish were ok, you could lift to 50% twice weekly. If fish looked stressed, a smaller pwc. Ime, larger water changes should be roughly temp matched. Fish will also cope with larger pwc's better if they are stress free.

For example, they may be fine with a bit of fin nipping within the school OR a 80% water change but the combination may trigger an infection. Not saying that's in your tank, just to watch out for stressed fish.

Apart from water changes, adding crushed coral or shells is the next way to lift ph which is fairly slow. It also slows as ph lifts. Above 7, I find crushed coral doesn't do much but it is there if needed. This is what is termed a pretty natural way to add buffers to your tank.

Baking soda I've also done but you need to be very careful and just add small amounts and re-test to 'dial in' what you need. I would tend to skip this if you are unsure on it since you are getting ammonia coming in now and could easily bounce ph up to 7. Or test in a bucket first.

 

[Caliban07]

It's time to do process of elimination.

Remove the driftwood first. Do a partial water change. Wait and see if ph comes up.

If not I would remove the plants and put them in a bucket. Do a partial water change and see if the ph rises.

These would be my first two steps.

Are there any other chemicals in the tank? What is your substrate?


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[hjsvt]

So what are the differences between your two tanks? List them all. I'm assuming quarantine tank has no fish. What about plants? Driftwood? Different substrate? Could be a combination of things in your main tank. I would be curious what the GH and KH are on the quarantine tank.

If this was my tank, here's what i would do. The 50% and 30% water tests you did are still too big a pH swing in my opinion. I would choose no more than 20%, 10% would be better and like a previous poster said make sure temperature is as close to tank as possible. I would choose to do smaller more frequent water changes to minimize the degree of change for less fish stress. Maybe if your schedule allows, two 10% changes morning and night everyday rather than 35% two times a week. The water changes will also help with the ammonia you are starting to see but also probably slow the build back up of BB because you don't let the ammonia build up. However I haven't read much about fish-in cycling so I don't know exactly how it works. The other thing I would definitely do today is get some crushed coral if you can. I am not sure I can explain the chemistry exactly but coral is mostly calcium. Calcium is part of what makes up your GH. In acidic water the shells dissolve slowly and release calcium into the water which increases the GH and the pH. It's a slow and natural process. Should be no stress on the fish. As the pH rises the acidity lowers and the dissolving slows and everything balances. It is a great natural easy to raise the pH. I know I said one change at a time but after some more thought I'd do both these things together. Also if you've been feeding the BB in your other tank and the pH in that tank is higher you probably have a better BB colony in the quarantine tank. Get your pH up in your main tank then move some filter material from the quarantine tank to main tank to reseed it. Having that quarantine tank may save your main tank nitrogen cycle. You could move your fish but there is that pH swing again. So the fish might be happier with a slow pH rise in the main tank. I don't know anything about the fish part yet but I think i agree with a commenter above who suggested holding off on more fish until you get things straightened out. Hoping for the best for you and your fish. Keep me posted on how is going.

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[hjsvt]

uncgirl1 - I hope you see this before you proceed with any water changes and I highly recommend you read the entire article.

This is from this page Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle | Cycling Methods | Ammonia & Nitrates

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Avant Garde]"Be aware that if your aquarium has copious amounts of decomposition in the absence of correct KH Buffers likely will result in a low pH. A pH under 6.5 will convert much of your aquarium ammonia to non toxic NH4 all the while slowing the nitrogen cycle and thus natural removal of ammonia.
So a sudden large water change that changes the pH, can result in more toxic NH3 ammonia.

This is not to say that water changes are bad, but to say large water changes in tanks with poor buffering, high organic pH reducing organics, with a crippled nitrogen cycle can initially cause more harm than good. Simply make sure your buffering is where it should be, use water changes of no more than 50%, use Prime (or similar products), and use SeaChem Stability when ammonia is high and necessitating water changes.
Reference: Aquarium Chemistry; KH Buffering

* Use SeaChem Prime (removes chlorine/chloramines, detoxifies ammonia & nitrite) or Amquel Plus or to a lesser extent many other older generation Ammonia/Nitrite de-toxifiers such Ammo Lock, or Amquel. These products do not remove ammonia they change the ammonia from highly toxic NH3 to less toxic Ammonium (NH4).
However I should note that with the exception of Prime or Amquel Plus, most ammonia locking products (such as Ammo Lock) do just this and do not allow for the bio availability of ammonia to nitrifying bacteria and therefore continued use can cause cessation of the nitrogen cycle.

Please note the ammonia will still test after using these products as most test kits do not differentiate between ammonia and ammonium (ionized ammonia), with the exception being the SeaChem Ammonia Alert Test.
See Product Link: SeaChem Ammonia Alert; Tests ONLY toxic ammonia NH3

Prime or Amquel Plus will keep the ammonium safely "bound" even if the pH climbs (which would otherwise convert NH4 to NH3). The ammonium is still available for nitrifying bacteria to consume and therefore Prime will not interrupt the growth of healthy bio-bacterial colonies as the ionized ammonia and nitrites are still available for nitrifying bacteria.
Since most test kits will still show the ammonia/nitrites at the SAME level as before the addition of Prime/Amquel +, rest assured this is in a non-toxic ionized form that is still bio available to Nitrobacteraceae bacteria that are forming in your filter media/gravel.[/FONT]"

Basically the chemistry is this, Ammonia converts to less toxic Ammoium at lower pH. The same concentration is still present so if you have .25ppm in your test it doesn't increase in concentration as you increase the pH but it does become more toxic at higher pH! So I very very strongly recommend small slow more frequent water changes and the addition of Prime to tie up the Ammonia to Ammonium at the higher pH levels and make it less toxic. This article has some great information in it about cycling and I would definitely read it! It's base on science and includes main references!

 

[uncgirl1]

No new plants. I actually removed some last weekend that weren't doing to good. I did add a new piece of driftwood about a month ago. During the fishless cycle. I do vac the substrate. Only in small areas at a time and only anything that I see that's big. Lately, the water is cloudy after a water change!

The fish seem to be doing ok. I have been using Paraguard due to possible parasite. One fish died earlier this week. Remaining 8 Cherry barbs have really colored up nicely since then and are swimming and eating fine. They have done fine with every water change I've done. No signs of stress at all.

I would like to try to solve this will water changes. I don't want to use and chemicals or anything if I don't have to. If I have to, I'll go the crushed coral route before anything else. Where do you buy crushed coral?

Any new driftwood in the tank? Lots of new plants recently added? Do you gravel vac? Cloudy tank after a pwc?

Thanks for the 48hr test. At least tap settles to a fine ph.

Tanks tend to lower in ph over time as plants and bacteria consume kh as you know. I'd skip adding anymore fish or plants at the moment until this is sorted. It's all likely to lower ph further. I don't know how tank ph is so low and you still have kh though.

My kh in tap is 5 to 6 depending on season and I find I can maintain a tank kh of 4 to 5 with a 30% pwc weekly. So we should be able to get your tank stable - hopefully it is just settling in. I can only offer my thoughts and you can go from there.

I think your last pwc was 35%? If fish were ok, you could lift to 50% twice weekly. If fish looked stressed, a smaller pwc. Ime, larger water changes should be roughly temp matched. Fish will also cope with larger pwc's better if they are stress free.

For example, they may be fine with a bit of fin nipping within the school OR a 80% water change but the combination may trigger an infection. Not saying that's in your tank, just to watch out for stressed fish.

Apart from water changes, adding crushed coral or shells is the next way to lift ph which is fairly slow. It also slows as ph lifts. Above 7, I find crushed coral doesn't do much but it is there if needed. This is what is termed a pretty natural way to add buffers to your tank.

Baking soda I've also done but you need to be very careful and just add small amounts and re-test to 'dial in' what you need. I would tend to skip this if you are unsure on it since you are getting ammonia coming in now and could easily bounce ph up to 7. Or test in a bucket first.

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[uncgirl1]

I was afraid someone would eventually say this. lol.

I use Flourite black mixed with black sand for my substrate. There are root tabs in there as well for the swords. I use Prime for water changes. I've been using Paraguard for a suspected parasite on a now deceased fish. Other than that, no chemicals.

I dread moving anything as the Flourite doesn't like it and takes a long time to stop being angry about it. I think I'll try plants first. ? It's easier than driftwood! Thanks for helping!

*edited to add: Wouldn't doing a partial water change without removing anything raise my ph? If I remove something how do I know that's the problem? I'm confused on that part. It seems that since my tap has higher ph, the ph will raise in my tank with water changes. Should I test the theory in buckets outside of the tank instead of in it?

It's time to do process of elimination.

Remove the driftwood first. Do a partial water change. Wait and see if ph comes up.

If not I would remove the plants and put them in a bucket. Do a partial water change and see if the ph rises.

These would be my first two steps.

Are there any other chemicals in the tank? What is your substrate?


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[uncgirl1]

Hjsvt- I saw your post and read the article. I haven't done anything yet. I did test the the ph in my main tank this morning as you suggested and there was no ph swing overnight. Still at 6. I always use Prime for water changes as you mentioned in your previous post. There is a large ph swing when I did the sample tests but my current fish handle water changes fine. Couldn't I do one to get the ph above 7 and then test to see when it falls? When it does, change small amounts to keep it up? Then add bb from my qt tank? Thoughts?





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[Delapool]

No new plants. I actually removed some last weekend that weren't doing to good. I did add a new piece of driftwood about a month ago. During the fishless cycle. I do vac the substrate. Only in small areas at a time and only anything that I see that's big. Lately, the water is cloudy after a water change!

The fish seem to be doing ok. I have been using Paraguard due to possible parasite. One fish died earlier this week. Remaining 8 Cherry barbs have really colored up nicely since then and are swimming and eating fine. They have done fine with every water change I've done. No signs of stress at all.

I would like to try to solve this will water changes. I don't want to use and chemicals or anything if I don't have to. If I have to, I'll go the crushed coral route before anything else. Where do you buy crushed coral?


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The cloudy water after a water change is a mini-bacterial bloom. Heterotrophic bacteria are taking advantage of stirred up organic material to have a feast and multiply rapidly in your water column. Ime, it is often associated with the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria population (bb) having problems. Increasing gravel vacs will help remove organic matter however it is mainly a matter of waiting it out. Also increasing aeration will help. Quite common for a new tank until it settles down. I'd try to leave the filter alone so not to disturb the nitrifying bacteria in there too much. What is your filter and how are you cleaning it?

Paraguard - do you need to keep dosing? Was it ich? No worries if you have to keep dosing but it may knock the bb population around as well.

Water changes will do it. Large or small, you will need lots of them though.

Driftwood should of settled down by now but you could try removing that.

Pet shops may have it. Over here I just went to to the beach for some shells and cuttlebone.

 

[Delapool]

"The last water change I did was on Sunday and I removed 45%." Just saw this on post 11.

Wow - that's amazing that ph is not shifting. I just had a quick play with what a 35% water change would do (below). To get to a ph of 7 you would need a 65% pwc whereas better off doing a normal water change and then increasing % for the next water change. ie work your way up rather than trying to do it all in one hit. Because you won't - it will take a few weeks of water changes before it settles down.

% ph
35 7.6
65 6
100 6.56

 

[uncgirl1]

The cloudy water after a water change is a mini-bacterial bloom. Heterotrophic bacteria are taking advantage of stirred up organic material to have a feast and multiply rapidly in your water column. Ime, it is often associated with the autotrophic nitrifying bacteria population (bb) having problems. Increasing gravel vacs will help remove organic matter however it is mainly a matter of waiting it out. Also increasing aeration will help. Quite common for a new tank until it settles down. I'd try to leave the filter alone so not to disturb the nitrifying bacteria in there too much. What is your filter and how are you cleaning it?

Paraguard - do you need to keep dosing? Was it ich? No worries if you have to keep dosing but it may knock the bb population around as well.

Water changes will do it. Large or small, you will need lots of them though.

Driftwood should of settled down by now but you could try removing that.

Pet shops may have it. Over here I just went to to the beach for some shells and cuttlebone.

I have 2 filters. Aquaclear 50 & 70. I don't clean them really. If they are funky I just swish them around in the water I remove from the tank when doing a water change. I also have a bubble bar that runs all the time. Is that enough aeration? My current plan is to do water changes until the ph is above 7. Then I will add the extra sponge from my qt tank that is cycled to help get this cycle back on track. I will test ph daily, if not more, and if it falls then I will change more water to get it up. Sounds like I may just have to do several water changes per week. I will look into crushed coral if I can't get this to stabilize on its own. Does that sound reasonable?

As far as the Paraguard goes: it wasn't ich. One of the fish had white poop and had a strange white mark on it. That fish has died and the remaining 8 look to be in good shape. So no, I don't think I need to keep doing it.


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[uncgirl1]

"The last water change I did was on Sunday and I removed 45%." Just saw this on post 11.

Wow - that's amazing that ph is not shifting. I just had a quick play with what a 35% water change would do (below). To get to a ph of 7 you would need a 65% pwc whereas better off doing a normal water change and then increasing % for the next water change. ie work your way up rather than trying to do it all in one hit. Because you won't - it will take a few weeks of water changes before it settles down.

% ph
35 7.6
65 6
100 6.56

Yes. However, I did not test the ph after that water change. It was a few days later. So the ph *may* have been different immediately after and for a few days. I'm planning to do a water change today and will be testing ph right afterwards. Honestly, I have really focused mostly on ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates in my year of fish keeping. I kind of felt like something was wrong since I had such low nitrates. < 5. So I did some research and started testing kh, gh, and ph. I randomly tested ph a while back but it was more just to see what it was. Not because I realized the full extent of what it all meant. I have much to learn as you can see. Basically, I learned some valuable lessons on a fluke.


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[BillD]

[URL="http://

On the filtering water topic, there is definitely a decrease in CO2 levels with increased water agitation from filters, bubblers, etc. The plants themselves will do a lot of filtering for you if they are growing. So I would consider cutting back until you get more fish. But don't decrease your filters or turn your air stone off until you get your pH and KH swings figured out. At night, plants take in O2 and can starve the water of it and kill your fish or leave them gasping for air by morning. Like I said it's a great big balancing act!

The reality is, that in a non injected tank, the more agitation, the higher the dissolved CO2 will be.

 

[uncgirl1]

The reality is, that in a non injected tank, the more agitation, the higher the dissolved CO2 will be.

I have no idea what that means. Are you saying that the agitation I have is the problem?


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[Delapool]

I have 2 filters. Aquaclear 50 & 70. I don't clean them really. If they are funky I just swish them around in the water I remove from the tank when doing a water change. I also have a bubble bar that runs all the time. Is that enough aeration? My current plan is to do water changes until the ph is above 7. Then I will add the extra sponge from my qt tank that is cycled to help get this cycle back on track. I will test ph daily, if not more, and if it falls then I will change more water to get it up. Sounds like I may just have to do several water changes per week. I will look into crushed coral if I can't get this to stabilize on its own. Does that sound reasonable?

As far as the Paraguard goes: it wasn't ich. One of the fish had white poop and had a strange white mark on it. That fish has died and the remaining 8 look to be in good shape. So no, I don't think I need to keep doing it.


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Aeration and plan sound good to me.

Crushed coral, etc is just calcium carbonate whereas kh is a measure of carbonate and bicarbonate ions in tank water. So coral you could say is just a solid form of kh if that helps.

I'd end the meds then. It could be killing off bacteria, which create a feast for other bacteria which produce ammonia and consume kh. Some thoughts anyways.

 

[uncgirl1]

Aeration and plan sound good to me.

Crushed coral, etc is just calcium carbonate whereas kh is a measure of carbonate and bicarbonate ions in tank water. So coral you could say is just a solid form of kh if that helps.

I'd end the meds then. It could be killing off bacteria, which create a feast for other bacteria which produce ammonia and consume kh. Some thoughts anyways.

Sounds good. Hopefully I'll get this figured out soon!


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[hjsvt]

The reality is, that in a non injected tank, the more agitation, the higher the dissolved CO2 will be.

I'm sorry but I believe this is very inaccurate. I have found nothing in my research that supports your statement. In fact everything says the opposite. If this were the case, all high tech planted tanks would be increasing agitation not injecting CO2

The following is from this article:
Freshwater Aquarium Plant Care; Substrate, Ferts, CO2, Lighting
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Avant Garde]
"Gasses such as oxygen and CO2 are added and subtracted from the aquarium via surface agitation. Generally speaking it is oxygen that is added and CO2 that is subtracted. CO2 is organically (naturally) added via fish respiration or other biological activity or decomposition.[/FONT]"

The following is from the same article for suggestions on increasing CO2. No where does it say increase agitation, if you scroll down to the red, it's the exact opposite.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Avant Garde]"To Increase CO2:

• Add a CO2 system such as the basic Jungle Fizz Tabs, Floramat System, Hagen, DIY yeast, or a more advanced CO Reactor system.
  
  I personally do not care for the yeast based CO2 system as they are often no more effective than the Fizz Tabs or especially Floramat with a lot more hassles.
  For a more advanced system with a reactor and diffuser, a pressurized CO2 is the next step up.
• Utilize bicarbonates or carbonates such as Seachem Alkaline Buffer, baking soda, or similar KH Buffers. Then, use SeaChem Acid Buffer (which utilizes proprietary bisulfate salts which are superior to methods that utilize phosphates) to immediately stabilize pH, counteract the KH Buffers, and produce CO2 as part of the chemical reaction.
  
  Slow acid production with ZooMed Frog Moss, almond leaf, peat, or driftwood can also be used to stabilize pH & counteract the KH Buffers and produce CO2. If ample acid buffers exist, often just the addition of an alkaline (KH) buffer will react with the acid buffer and produce CO2.
  
  Below is a description of the production of CO2 when sodium carbonates (KH buffer) are combined with sodium bisulfate to produce CO2:
  
  >NaHSO4 (sodium bisulfate), Na2CO3 (sodium carbonate/baking soda)
  >(HSO4) (sulfuric acid) + H2O -----> (SO4)2- + (H3O)+
  >2(HSO4)- + (CO3)2- (carbonate)-----> ?
  >CO2 and H2O will be formed.
  
  Often the chemical reaction shown above is naturally occurring in planted aquariums with little intervention by the hobbyist. As long as the aquarium is well-balanced with alkaline & acid buffers both natural (such as Pillow Moss for acid) and added (such as Seachem Alakline Buffer for alkaline). The result renders the use of CO2 generators or products such as Flourish Excel unnecessary.
• Add Flourish Excel
  Flousish Excel can be easily dosed along with other liquid "ferts" (fertilizers/plant nutrients) by figuring your weekly dosage mixed with water and adding to upside down soda or water bottle with an air line that has a control valve so that you can regulate the speed of the drip into your aquarium. Generally I use a quart of water with varying amounts of Excel and ferts depending on the aquarium size and plant demands (see also the "Ferts"/Nutrients section of this article).
• Cut back on surface agitation, especially power head venturis or air stones. These can still be set to go on at night by using a timer when plants use oxygen, not CO2. Keep in mind that circulation is still necessary just watch the surface agitation where CO2 is exchanged for oxygen.
• Be careful of organic buildup that can deplete CO2 via nitrification. Thorough and regular water changes are a must for more reasons than this alone.
• Some biofilters can add to organic build up (under gravel, and poorly maintained wet/dry and canister filters).
  As well many biofilters such as wet/dry can "wear off" your CO2. For this reason the use of sponge filters or better yet, fluidized sand filters, (or both) is advised in planted aquariums utilizing additional CO2."

[/FONT]

 

[hjsvt]

uncgirl1 -

well you wanted advice and you've got it now! lol!

I found this article on the same website (I'm loving this website's articles that are based in science and provide references!)

Aquarium Chemistry | Calcium & KH & GH & pH & Electrolytes (ions)

This one is more in depth Aquarium Chemistry. It talks in more detail about GH and KH and how it all relates.

Here is a small section of the article that I think is very relevant to your situation.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Avant Garde]"It is also noteworthy that a GH test is not always an accurate measure of positive calcium and other mineral ions (cations), as with many Ammonia test kits, which are inaccurate after using products such as Prime and give false positive for ammonia NH3 as they cannot discern the difference between the NH3 and NH4+.
The same can be said for GH tests that may show a high GH when in reality all positive calcium ions are depleted due to Redox balancing, which is why one MUST constantly supply these mineral cations by whatever means, whether by regular water changes (which often are not enough, especially in small aquariums) or by use of mineral replenishers such as Wonder Shells (which will throw off accurate readings of GH test kits due to their constant supply of positive mineral ions such as calcium!!!).[/FONT]"

I after all my research and reviewing the comments others have provided, I am going to stick with my theory that your buffering has been depleted. Your BB and plants are both using up what little buffer you have in your soft water. I am going to stand firm on my theory that in order to have a stable pH in your aquarium with your soft water you need to do regular and large water changes to restore the buffering in your water and even then it might not be enough (see above) to maintain a stable pH. If you GH is only reading 3 and the test can be inaccurate for the calcium ions you need, I convinced that your buffer is completely depleted. I would research the Seachem line of acid and alkaline buffers and Replenish and consider increasing the buffers in your water. I think ultimately your aquarium will be more balanced and you will go through much less water.

Okay, I've said my final thoughts on this. I hope I haven't added to your confusion and I hope I may have helped in some small way. I think too many comments will only add to the confusion! All the best for you and your fish!

 

[Caliban07]

I'm sorry but I believe this is very inaccurate. I have found nothing in my research that supports your statement. In fact everything says the opposite. If this were the case, all high tech planted tanks would be increasing agitation not injecting CO2

The following is from this article:
Freshwater Aquarium Plant Care; Substrate, Ferts, CO2, Lighting
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Avant Garde]
"Gasses such as oxygen and CO2 are added and subtracted from the aquarium via surface agitation. Generally speaking it is oxygen that is added and CO2 that is subtracted. CO2 is organically (naturally) added via fish respiration or other biological activity or decomposition.[/FONT]"

The following is from the same article for suggestions on increasing CO2. No where does it say increase agitation, if you scroll down to the red, it's the exact opposite.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Avant Garde]"To Increase CO2:

• Add a CO2 system such as the basic Jungle Fizz Tabs, Floramat System, Hagen, DIY yeast, or a more advanced CO Reactor system.
  
  I personally do not care for the yeast based CO2 system as they are often no more effective than the Fizz Tabs or especially Floramat with a lot more hassles.
  For a more advanced system with a reactor and diffuser, a pressurized CO2 is the next step up.
• Utilize bicarbonates or carbonates such as Seachem Alkaline Buffer, baking soda, or similar KH Buffers. Then, use SeaChem Acid Buffer (which utilizes proprietary bisulfate salts which are superior to methods that utilize phosphates) to immediately stabilize pH, counteract the KH Buffers, and produce CO2 as part of the chemical reaction.
  
  Slow acid production with ZooMed Frog Moss, almond leaf, peat, or driftwood can also be used to stabilize pH & counteract the KH Buffers and produce CO2. If ample acid buffers exist, often just the addition of an alkaline (KH) buffer will react with the acid buffer and produce CO2.
  
  Below is a description of the production of CO2 when sodium carbonates (KH buffer) are combined with sodium bisulfate to produce CO2:
  
  >NaHSO4 (sodium bisulfate), Na2CO3 (sodium carbonate/baking soda)
  >(HSO4) (sulfuric acid) + H2O -----> (SO4)2- + (H3O)+
  >2(HSO4)- + (CO3)2- (carbonate)-----> ?
  >CO2 and H2O will be formed.
  
  Often the chemical reaction shown above is naturally occurring in planted aquariums with little intervention by the hobbyist. As long as the aquarium is well-balanced with alkaline & acid buffers both natural (such as Pillow Moss for acid) and added (such as Seachem Alakline Buffer for alkaline). The result renders the use of CO2 generators or products such as Flourish Excel unnecessary.
• Add Flourish Excel
  Flousish Excel can be easily dosed along with other liquid "ferts" (fertilizers/plant nutrients) by figuring your weekly dosage mixed with water and adding to upside down soda or water bottle with an air line that has a control valve so that you can regulate the speed of the drip into your aquarium. Generally I use a quart of water with varying amounts of Excel and ferts depending on the aquarium size and plant demands (see also the "Ferts"/Nutrients section of this article).
• Cut back on surface agitation, especially power head venturis or air stones. These can still be set to go on at night by using a timer when plants use oxygen, not CO2. Keep in mind that circulation is still necessary just watch the surface agitation where CO2 is exchanged for oxygen.
• Be careful of organic buildup that can deplete CO2 via nitrification. Thorough and regular water changes are a must for more reasons than this alone.
• Some biofilters can add to organic build up (under gravel, and poorly maintained wet/dry and canister filters).
  As well many biofilters such as wet/dry can "wear off" your CO2. For this reason the use of sponge filters or better yet, fluidized sand filters, (or both) is advised in planted aquariums utilizing additional CO2."

[/FONT]

I agree, my logic is that more surface agitation would just equal a faster gas transfer equilibrium at the surface of the water.


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[Caliban07]

uncgirl1 -

well you wanted advice and you've got it now! lol!

I found this article on the same website (I'm loving this website's articles that are based in science and provide references!)

Aquarium Chemistry | Calcium & KH & GH & pH & Electrolytes (ions)

This one is more in depth Aquarium Chemistry. It talks in more detail about GH and KH and how it all relates.

Here is a small section of the article that I think is very relevant to your situation.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Avant Garde]"It is also noteworthy that a GH test is not always an accurate measure of positive calcium and other mineral ions (cations), as with many Ammonia test kits, which are inaccurate after using products such as Prime and give false positive for ammonia NH3 as they cannot discern the difference between the NH3 and NH4+.
The same can be said for GH tests that may show a high GH when in reality all positive calcium ions are depleted due to Redox balancing, which is why one MUST constantly supply these mineral cations by whatever means, whether by regular water changes (which often are not enough, especially in small aquariums) or by use of mineral replenishers such as Wonder Shells (which will throw off accurate readings of GH test kits due to their constant supply of positive mineral ions such as calcium!!!).[/FONT]"

I after all my research and reviewing the comments others have provided, I am going to stick with my theory that your buffering has been depleted. Your BB and plants are both using up what little buffer you have in your soft water. I am going to stand firm on my theory that in order to have a stable pH in your aquarium with your soft water you need to do regular and large water changes to restore the buffering in your water and even then it might not be enough (see above) to maintain a stable pH. If you GH is only reading 3 and the test can be inaccurate for the calcium ions you need, I convinced that your buffer is completely depleted. I would research the Seachem line of acid and alkaline buffers and Replenish and consider increasing the buffers in your water. I think ultimately your aquarium will be more balanced and you will go through much less water.

Okay, I've said my final thoughts on this. I hope I haven't added to your confusion and I hope I may have helped in some small way. I think too many comments will only add to the confusion! All the best for you and your fish!

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