Help with ph!

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My water is quite soft too, 34ppm tds. I have kh kit but never tested my water, it is and has always been 7.5. I have same if not more plants than you and a bigger stock. No ph drop.


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Sorry I'm not familiar with those tests. I believe you though. Need to test the distilled water to confirm accuracy.

How long has drift wood been removed?

Is the flourite by Seachem? It claims not to alter ph but I'm just curious if this is the cause.


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The tests with pictures are in an above post. Am working on distilled water. Driftwood just cam out today and it is the Seachem Flourite. I've used before with no issues.


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The tests with pictures are in an above post. Am working on distilled water. Driftwood just cam out today and it is the Seachem Flourite. I've used before with no issues.


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Yeah I saw the pictures but I cannot relate to the colours because I have no experience using the kit at this time.

Have you done a water change since the drift wood was taken out?

If not record ph now the do a water change and see if ph declines as before?


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I got the distilled water and did the tests. The ph shows as 6 which it consistent with what I read it should be as distilled water isn't pure. The kh is 3 and the gh is 2. Seems like there might be a problem with my tests? I thought distilled water should have no gh or kh. Is that correct. Looks like I may need to buy new tests!

The driftwood is out and in a bucket with water and dechlorinator. I'm going to do a water change (for ammonia and ph) as I did yesterday. This should raise the ph to 7 or 7.2 as it did yesterday. If it doesn't fall again by tomorrow at least I know it's the driftwood.

I'm also going to test the ph of the bucket with the driftwood and see if the ph falls there.


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I got the distilled water and did the tests. The ph shows as 6 which it consistent with what I read it should be as distilled water isn't pure. The kh is 3 and the gh is 2. Seems like there might be a problem with my tests? I thought distilled water should have no gh or kh. Is that correct. Looks like I may need to buy new tests!

The driftwood is out and in a bucket with water and dechlorinator. I'm going to do a water change (for ammonia and ph) as I did yesterday. This should raise the ph to 7 or 7.2 as it did yesterday. If it doesn't fall again by tomorrow at least I know it's the driftwood.

I'm also going to test the ph of the bucket with the driftwood and see if the ph falls there.


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Good idea testing the bucket with driftwood.

Yes distilled water should be pure. You may need to replace the kh and gh test kits. Are there any other water sources you can test them on that doesn't use the same supplier as yourself.

If indeed the test kits are faulty? (I'm still not 100% convinced) then you still have a problem with alkalinity.

How much do you feed a day and what foods? The more food that goes in the more in the bacteria will use up. If it is the plants that are using.

The other thing is to focus on what a previous poster said. If you do not supplement co2 and your have high light, the plants could be stripping your carbonates from the water.

Either supplement co2 or get a lower light plant to match the low light spec of your swords.

Let's confirm the test kit is faulty first of all. You could just buy new to eradicate any maybes.

The other poster was definitely on to something but I felt was a bit overly presumptuous that's all. There's so Much going on that we have to take our time.


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Ok. Here are pictures of the tests I did this morning. I've tested ph, kh, gh all directly out of the tank.

1st picture is of tests I'm using. They are not expired but the kh and gh are both made in 2013 so are close to being 2 years old. View attachment 266723

2nd picture is of ph test. It looks like 6.4 to me.

View attachment 266724

3rd picture is kh test. This was 6 drops to equal 6 dkh or 107.4 ppm. It's yellow but bright yellow? I'm not sure. View attachment 266725

4th picture is of kh but 7 drops. 7 dkh or 125.3 ppm. This is definitely bright yellow. View attachment 266726

5th picture is gh test. This was 5 drops so 89.5 ppm. However, 4 drops turned it green as well. I read somewhere that the green should be the same green as the .25 ammonia. To get that green it took 5 drops.View attachment 266727

I will test on distilled water later today when I get some.

Do you all see something that I don't? Are the colors off or wrong to you?


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Are these all API test kits? Can check out tonight. Unless someone can check earlier?

Also, I got the lfs to re-run my tests (same liquid based API test kit, not strips). They did it for free (although as usual I bought stuff I almost need). This was handy for me as a check and also to make sure I'm doing the tests correctly.

Did you get cloudy water again after the pwc?
 
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Sorry to desert you uncgirl1! I have kept up with your thread. However, my tank cycle was complete and it was Sunday and I couldn't resist heading to the lfs for some fish (which is 1hr+ drive one way) and dealing with my own clear liquid issues.

First it is so hard to know what to do when you are unsure and there is so much conflicting information out there. Would you be willing to do a test to see if there is some credibility to my theory? 1st let me say, if the answer is no, no worries. I think the one way to forge ahead with all the conflicting info is to go with what your gut tells you. For me, I have exactly the opposite problem. My RO water is ph 6, GH 0 KH 2, my well water is ph 8, GH 23 KH 20. When I mix them 2:1, I have ph 8, GH 9, KH 9. After my visit to the lsf yesterday and talking about pH, I decided to add the Seachem Acidic buffer to bring my pH to 7. Despite what everybody says about fish adjusting to whatever your pH is. The fish I was bringing home were used to 7-7.2 and my water was 8. That's a big jump that can cause stress which can cause sickness/parasites. Also I want to get some Dwarf Gouramis and they prefer 6.5 to 7.5 max and are more delicate. The Seachem Acidic buffer worked great! 10g in 25 gallons based on the calculation and I'm at 7. It did drop my KH by 2 points though. But that's to be expected. That's what it does! So tomorrow I'm going to be experimenting with my own clear liquid again. But I digress with my own situation. Here is what I would like to see you test if you were willing.

First PWC, whatever you did the other day to bring the pH back up the 7 range. Second, turn your light off for 24 hours. I think your plants will be okay. Add to the water the full dose of Seachem Flourish Excel, like for a full water change. I can't remember exactly what that is at the moment, but I think it's 5ml per 10 gal. Third, test the pH as often as you can in that 24 hours and see if drops less, more or the same. Also, how often and how much are you dosing the Flourish Excel now?

This is what I'm basing my theory on. First based on Diane Walstad's book, Amazon Swords are a low light, hard water plant adapted to utilizing the bicarbonates in the water for their available carbon, (thus the hard water loving part). Second, you don't have a whole lot of bicarbonates to begin with. Third, I think your light may tend towards the higher output side and you where running it 10+ hours (I think?) a day which the Swords are really loving because they are used to operating efficiently in low light. Fourth, you do have 10 large swords in your tank.

So if I'm correct, and it's possible I'm not, if you get your pH and bicarbonates back up with a water change and turn your lights off, and supply your swords with another carbon source and a bunch of it. I'm hoping they might not use up your water bicarbonates so fast and we might not see the pH drop as quickly. But it may still drop. The carbon we add might still not be enough but with the light out that should definitely slow down photosynthesis which should decrease their demand for carbon. I think with is a great way to test the plant theory without removing the plants from the tank and disturbing the substrate and the mess that all creates. Plus that all adds additional factors we want to keep controlled in our test.

Anyway, let me know what you think and what you are willing to try. I think you might have to go with your gut on this.

On the discrepancy in your test, I have some distilled water here. Now obviously it's not the same as yours but it's Walmart Great Value brand. Both GH and KH are 0. One drop in both and it's very pale green and very pale yellow. I don't see any orange or blue. So I think your test kit may be off. My kit is new, opened about 1 month ago, and it expires in 2017. I do plan to replace my kits yearly regardless of the expiration date because chemical reagents are susceptible to atmospheric conditions. I would suggest, like a previous post suggested, taking a sample of your tank water to a lfs for testing if they use the API method and/or replacing your kit. Whichever is more feasible for you. I think the colors you are readying in your photos are accurate. One thing I have found in my own tests with GH and KH, is when you get close to the color change point, inverting the test tube one more time and giving it a few more seconds can mean the difference in a drop. Also at lower drops numbers, the color isn't as concentrated and therefore a change in the color is harder to see. It is definitely not a perfect system but it's what we've got!

I also wanted you know (I am not trying to aggravate the situation nor toot my own horn) that I have a BS in biology with a minor in chemistry. It's been a few years and I don't use my degree everyday but my independent senior project in chemistry was the ability of Duckweed to remove heavy metals from water. Although I don't have any fish keeping experience and I don't have 1,000s of post on this forum, I do have a credible science background and I do know a little about water chemistry.

Let me know what you decide to do and try. I'm very curious to know how it all turns out. BTW, I could very well be wrong and/or we may not be able to ever really know for sure one way or another given our limited scientific methods.

Also, I am now the very proud owner of 5 cherry barbs, 5 lemon tetra and 4 julii corys!! And I couldn't sleep, I was so worried about them! (Hence the 3 am post) I was up checking that they were still alive, not gasping at the surface and checking the pH. What can I say, I'm a proud new mom!! :oops:
 
Another quick thought I just had that may effect our results. The swords may still choose the bicarbonates in the water over the carbon available in the Flourish Excel because of how they have adapted. Diane Walstad's book has lot of info about how plants use the different carbon sources available to them. But I'm hoping turning the light off will be the deciding factor. Anyway, I think it's worth a try.

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Good idea testing the bucket with driftwood.

Yes distilled water should be pure. You may need to replace the kh and gh test kits. Are there any other water sources you can test them on that doesn't use the same supplier as yourself.

If indeed the test kits are faulty? (I'm still not 100% convinced) then you still have a problem with alkalinity.

How much do you feed a day and what foods? The more food that goes in the more in the bacteria will use up. If it is the plants that are using.

The other thing is to focus on what a previous poster said. If you do not supplement co2 and your have high light, the plants could be stripping your carbonates from the water.

Either supplement co2 or get a lower light plant to match the low light spec of your swords.

Let's confirm the test kit is faulty first of all. You could just buy new to eradicate any maybes.

The other poster was definitely on to something but I felt was a bit overly presumptuous that's all. There's so Much going on that we have to take our time.


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I have looked at 3 different stores and couldn't find the Kh/Gh test. I'll have to order one from Amazon.

I am definitely not a light expert but from what I have read, I believe my Current Satellite + would be considered a low light on my tank. Since its a 36 gallon bowfront it's deep. I may try to post in the planted part of the forum and see if anyone there knows for sure.

I feed once a day. NLS flakes or pellets. I only feed a small amount and make sure they eat it before I give more. Over feeding seems quite easy to do. I'm sure I don't do it perfect! I also fast them one day a week.


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Are these all API test kits? Can check out tonight. Unless someone can check earlier?

Also, I got the lfs to re-run my tests (same liquid based API test kit, not strips). They did it for free (although as usual I bought stuff I almost need). This was handy for me as a check and also to make sure I'm doing the tests correctly.

Did you get cloudy water again after the pwc?


Yes, I do use API tests. The only stores close to me (within 30 minutes) are Petco, Petsmart, and Pet Supermarket. The decent ones are all over an hour away as I live in a very rural area. I can take the water to one of those stores for testing but I'm not sure I'd trust them. It may be better to wait to go to the trusted stores.

The water clears up after a water change but becomes cloudy again pretty quickly.


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I have looked at 3 different stores and couldn't find the Kh/Gh test. I'll have to order one from Amazon.

I am definitely not a light expert but from what I have read, I believe my Current Satellite + would be considered a low light on my tank. Since its a 36 gallon bowfront it's deep. I may try to post in the planted part of the forum and see if anyone there knows for sure.

I feed once a day. NLS flakes or pellets. I only feed a small amount and make sure they eat it before I give more. Over feeding seems quite easy to do. I'm sure I don't do it perfect! I also fast them one day a week.


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Feeding seems good. Ok I apologise I didn't research your light. Long shot but is there a PAR rating on you light? How deep is the tank? 21 inches?

I would definitely consider reducing the photo period till you get new kits.


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Feeding seems good. Ok I apologise I didn't research your light. Long shot but is there a PAR rating on you light? How deep is the tank? 21 inches?

I would definitely consider reducing the photo period till you get new kits.


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Yes, 21 inches. Minus 3 or so for the substrate. Par would be 28. So that puts me in the upper end of low lighting. Low would be up to 30. I had some help from Fresh2o over in the planted forum. Lol, I don't want to take credit and actually sound like I know what I'm talking about! lol But at least I knew I should be in the low light range.


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Yes, I do use API tests. The only stores close to me (within 30 minutes) are Petco, Petsmart, and Pet Supermarket. The decent ones are all over an hour away as I live in a very rural area. I can take the water to one of those stores for testing but I'm not sure I'd trust them. It may be better to wait to go to the trusted stores.

The water clears up after a water change but becomes cloudy again pretty quickly.


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So it's always cloudy in the tank? And white cloudy (not green?). Does it clear up at all?
 
So it's always cloudy in the tank? And white cloudy (not green?). Does it clear up at all?


No, not green at all. Just white cloudy and not horrible. Most people probably wouldn't notice but I do. It didn't use to be that way but has been over the past week. I'm guessing, and you know how that goes, that the cloudiness is a bacterial bloom since my cycle was dismantled.


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Tch, doesn't just rain does it. Copied in an article below on cloudy water I find useful. The article has cloudy water not associated with cycling but I find cloudy water is a good sign to run off and check ammonia and think about what I may have done to the bb. Usually for me this has been an excessive filter clean which is why I now run several. Usually the cloudy water clears a day after the pwc for me if it does occur.

This is just my experience, it's late here and I may be rambling. My tank also is hard to pick cloudy water, only if you look at it every day but the family can usually spot the difference when it is pointed out. Wonder what the hetro bacteria (cloudy water) are doing to your kh...

The water change you are doing removes the hetro bacteria causing cloudy water but they breed so rapidly, the tank becomes cloudy again. Still, water changes are the way to go. I'd say you could happily do another one (barring any tests you may wish to do).

Carbon in the filter will also remove organic material but that would mean disturbing the bb. So I'm loath to do it unless you have spare filter room or have over-stacked your bio-media. The other thing with carbon (since the article suggests using it), is that bb will start to colonize it after a few weeks. So you need to replace it regularly (mainly).

I don't think your cycle is completely gone but miss-firing for sure. You ph I would of said was a touch below 6.4 on last test but not 6 (but I'm terrible with the colours). Mainly is it better than it was?

Anyways (again barring any tests you may wish to do from above posts), water changes will solve. It will increase kh, lower organic material and reduce ammonia. Still be tempted on some crushed shells though lol but it's the bucket brigade here for water changes.


Heterotrophic Bacteria and Their Practical Application in a Freshwater Aquarium
 
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Well, the driftwood is not the culprit of my ph problem. I removed it yesterday afternoon and the ph was back to 6 this morning before I left for work. That's faster than the previous drop the day before! The water that the driftwood is sitting in is still holding strong at 7.6. I can only assume this point that it has to do with plants. I have ordered a new test kit for kh and gh and that should come tomorrow. If my tests are faulty, that could have something to do with it as well.

*Edited to add that I have found several forum posts online that indicate other people having a low ph issue when using flourite. It seems that this is only an issue if you have soft water.
 
Sorry to desert you uncgirl1! I have kept up with your thread. However, my tank cycle was complete and it was Sunday and I couldn't resist heading to the lfs for some fish (which is 1hr+ drive one way) and dealing with my own clear liquid.

Also, I am now the very proud owner of 5 cherry barbs, 5 lemon tetra and 4 julii corys!! And I couldn't sleep, I was so worried about them! (Hence the 3 am post) I was up checking that they were still alive, not gasping at the surface and checking the pH. What can I say, I'm a proud new mom!! :oops:


First, yay for the new fish! I can't wait to see your tank all put together with you new little guys!!

You didn't abandon me! I so appreciate all of your help! I did as you suggested and did a water change to get the ph up. I also removed all of the plants that were yellow, torn, melting, whatever. So that lightened the load a bit as far as plants go. I've confirmed that my lighting is in the upper low end of lighting with help from Fresh2o over in the planted forum. As far as Flourish Excel goes, I do it sporadic at best. Not with any real consistency. When I completed the water change, I dosed 15 ml for 30 gallons. I can't have 30 gallons so I compensated 6 for substrate, plants, etc. I will try leaving the lights off and test your theory. I'm determined to get to the root of it. I've read that Flourite can sometimes lower ph especially with soft water. I emailed Seachem and they said no way and it wasn't possible. However, Fresh2o told me how to test if it may be the Flourite so I'm going to do that as well. I'll post back here once I know!

About the test, I didn't see any colors but clear or the yellow or green. Maybe I'm trying to make it to bright yellow or to green? I have another test kit ordered that should arrive tomorrow.


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Well I did as suggested by hjsvt and changed the water. Got the ph up somewhere between 6.8 and 7. Turned off lights and dosed excel. This was at about 4:30 pm yesterday afternoon. I just tested the water again at 7:30 am this morning and ph is back at 6.

Any other ideas? I'm going to do the Flourite test as well but was told to use DI water. I'm working on finding that.

Also, I have changed the water every day for 3 days ( 35%). Should I try larger water changes everyday? I'm about to give in and just get some ph buffer. lol


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I've always been a little curious about the flourite to be honest. Mixed reports online and seachem know it would damage sales if it alters certain waters ph levels. I'd like to see the new test kits readings though first.


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I think I mentioned this before but you could always add flourite to the stable qt tank and see if it drops the ph.

I know it may be messy and a potential waste of flourite but at least you would know. You can remove the flourite and rinse the QT before ph effects the cycle. As long as you keep the sponge your qt cycle will be fine.


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