I kill PLecos........and I don't know why

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Minze

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
27
Location
Philadelphia, PA
Warning, this post managed to turn into a novel.....sorry about that.

OK, I have been keeping fish tanks on my own for about 10 years now. All my life I have been around fish tanks and developed a fondness for them. Anyway, in all my keeping of fish, I have never been able to keep a pleco alive. I've chalked it up to me being a pleco murderer.

For years I kept a 20 gal high tank. It was established, and I had not had a death in the tank for a while. There wasn't huge algae growth in the tank, but it was sufficient. In that tank I had an Bala Shark, African Dwarf Frog, 2 clown loaches, and an upside down catfish. I decided to get a pleco. It dies within 2 weeks. I got another and the same thing happened. I gave up on them then.

I moved a few months ago. I decided to move from the 20 gal to a 38 gal tank. I used the same gravel and water from the 20 gal and moved it to the 38 gal. I figured since the tank I had was well established (about 9 years) this would be the best way to go. I moved the 2 fish I had (one was the upside down catfish who was about 4 or 5 years old by now, and a blue gourami) over to the new tank. Unfortunately the upside down catfish didn't survive long in the new tank. Within a month he died. I decided to populate the tank slowly as to allow the biological filter to catch up with the fish that were being added. All in all, I ended up with what I have now. 4 blue gouramis, 2 albino tiger barbs, 2 small iridescent sharks, and 1 small catfish that I haven't been able to identify. He stays mostly hidden.

I initially had a huge bloom of brown algae. I like to handle things naturally instead of adding chemicals, etc to the tank so I figured I would get a pleco. I went over to one of the lfs in the area and got a small pleco. I wasn't exactly sure which type, as it was the only one they had. He didn't do anything with the algae, and in about 10 days he died. At this point I needed the algae gone so I went and got phosguard and used it. The brown algae went away. I took the phosguard out and went on my merry way. I actually like pleco's alot, so I wanted to try my hand at it again. After more algae formed, I went to a different lfs (Much more reputable. this is the one I normally use) and bought a bristle nose pleco. I acclimated him to the water/temp over the course of about 2 hours like I do with all my fish. I put him in the tank and he was active. He lasted about 3 weeks. I then went and purchased 2 wide mouth plecos. One died in about a week, the other took just over 2 weeks to die. These two went to town on the algae when they first entered the tank. The one that dies last was feeding well up until his death. I could tell when they all were going to die as they started acting differently. The ones that normally would hide would be out in the open, the ones that would be out in the open started hiding, etc.

I read up on the pleco before I purchased them. I read they sometimes like to chew on driftwood. I bought driftwood and treated it by boiling for about 10 hours. After this I soaked it in de-chlorinated water for the next week until I saw that the water was no longer turning brown. I read about zucchini as a food source. I was trying that. I bought spirulina tablets to drop in as food. I made sure not to overfeed.

I check my ammonia, ph and nitrite levels bi weekly and have never had anything alarming. My ammonia and nitrite are always at 0. My ph is 6.8. My kh and gh are both around 100 ppm. I don't test for nitrates, but I do a about a 15-20% water change every 2 weeks. My tap water has a ph of 7.0 so I only treat it for de-chlorination when i do my water changes. I use Tetra AquaSafe to treat the water before adding it. I vacuum the gravel once a month. I will say that my other fish are fine. No signs of stress, etc. The fish I have all get along, except of course for the male gourami occasionally going after one of the females, but there is no nipping or signs of abuse on any of the fish.

I have noticed that the gouramis are voracious eaters. I never noticed any of the pleco's aggressively going after any of the food I placed in the tank. Even the zucchini piece that I placed in the tank had the gouramis going after it.

So can anyone tell me, what is it I am doing that is killing the plecos? Oh, and I apologize for the book I had you read.
 
Hiya Minze and welcome to Aquariumadvice.

First off let me say no apologies needed; your post gave LOTS of info and thats what we need to puzzle things out.

It does sound like you're doing the right things; acclimation procedures sound great, you have good water husbandry, you've offered them the right things to eat. I know it sounds sorta impossible, but I wonder if your jinx is not YOU kill plecs, but you keep getting plecs who are ill/unable to survive. Plecs, especially wild caught ones, are usually starving by the time they reach the lfs. If they haven't been there long, or the store doesn't take top notch care of em, they'll be in bad shape when you get them. One way to check is to look at the area right behind the eyes on the head. If its sunken, pass on the fish. Plecs store fat there, and if thats depleted they are utterly starved, which means they are not in the best shape to being with. Otherwise its kinda hard to tell.

Couple of other things: Plecs really don't eat brown algae (diatoms); they prefer the green algaes. Algae wafers and zucchini and such are also good substitutes; you might want to put them in the tank after the lights are off tho - plecs are generally nocturnal - it might give them a chance to eat while the other fish are sleeping (my plec eats he stuff dropped in for the other fish whenever I feed em, but I have yet to see him clean the glass. That being said, the glass in that tank is spotless which means he works on it overnight).

I also wonder (its a stretch tho) if there is some disease in the tank that the other fish have become immune to. Or if the plecs are all coming in with parasites (what does their poo look like?).
 
I have 2 ideas on the subject.

Old Tank Syndrom.

Old tanks can eventually have drasticly different parametters from your regular water after years, leading to any new fish added being put into shock and dying of stress. The old fish, because they've been in there so long have gradually adapted to the changes in the water and it no longer affects them, however to new fish its like being moved from ice cold water into a boiling pot.

Local LFS water params are greatly different from your own.

Same thing, shocking the fish to death and what not.
 
Hi and welcome,

What are you using for filtration, circulation and lighting?

And please excuse Allivymar for saying "poo" I know it is a bad word. She needs to say "poop"

Some people's kids.
 
Thanks for the welcome. I have been lurking here for a few weeks reading up on everything.

I was thinking of Old Tank Syndrome being a possibility. All of the fish that are in the tank have been added within the past few months except for one female blue gourami. the only death (other then the mass killing of the pleco's) has been one albino tiger barb. I could tell right from the start that he wasn't going to survive. He didn't take to the switch at all, even with a 2 plus hour acclimation period. I was actually surprised to find that he lived for about 2 days. It wasn't a pretty thing. He was giving it his best effort to survive though.

I am using a Whisper Power Filter 40 as well as a canister with filtration media attached to my power head. For lighting I have a 24" flourescent bulb. I'll admit that it is what came with the tank. I think it is a bit under-lighted just by looking at it.

As for the poo (or poop in snapcrackler's case) I never really checked it out. What should I have been looking for with that?
 
I was just wondering if there was low flow going on. Sounds like you are OK if you are confident that you have good circ and gas exchange.

Allivymar knows her poo, so to speak. She'll probably be the source of your solution.

(y)

(edited) And I gotta add, I think WIlliam is on the right track too, Not that I am some kind of guru person, but there is something going on, man, that fish are dropping like that.
 
I just bought a pleco 2, this friday, it si soo beautiful (never been a real pleco fan). Its like white with black spots all over him. I Just cant get him to eat... He's having trouble sucking on the glass, he like slips... Im gonna start with zuccini tonite...

Good luck to ya anyways
 
Just a thought Minze; how are you acclimating the plecs to the tank? If it is Old Tank Syndrome, a long slow acclimation may help.
 
BTW, my tank is by the window and I still havent got any signs of green algae... thats why I supplement with pellets and veggies...

Any ideas to make this work?
I think everybody would be happy @ my tank if I had some...
 
Its quite possible its being eaten before it has a chance to be visible Neuve. I never see algae in my big tank, but thats the tank with the plec. If I move a flower pot too close the tank wall (where he can't fit his big fat head LOL) I WILL see algae growth; its gone the next day if I move the pot. My other tanks don't have plecs and I usually have to do some algae scraping.
 
So theres nothing to do then... Ill hafta stick to wafers and veg's
 
I usually take a few hours to acclimate new fish to the tank. I start by floating the bag for about a half an hour. I then start adding water to the bag every half hour about 3 times. I judge how much water is in the bag and add what I would consider about 20% of the total volume of water in the bag. I usually do this 3 times with about a half hour spacing. I then usually pull some waer out of the bag (only if it is too full) and dunp it down the drain. I then start the process again for another 2-3 times adding the water every 20 minutes.
 
Always ask the LFS when the fish arrived. I try to never buy a fish that is less than a week in the stories tanks. Often it can be as simple as too much travelling in a short period of time leading to stress and death. But I believe that plecos, like many plant eaters, have specialized bacteria in their stomachs that help digest the food. If these bacteria die off due to lack of eating a pleco has no chance of survival. This is generally why ottos and anemones die off so easily.
 
I have the same problem with plecs, no matter what I do they die! I always have my water checked by the aquarium shop people when I have a dead plec, and there is never a problem with it. I have plenty of bogwood, plants, and I feed extra algae wafers too. Also, the plecs come from the same tank in the shop as the some of the other fish that I have bought at the same time, and they survive.
 
Plecs really need/like strong water current. If there isn't enough oxygen exchange your water can test fine all day but the plecs won't have what they need.

I have raised so many plecs in my life I can't even begin to count them. They are built like tanks and even the little baby plecs have an astounding survival rate. But they really really need some oxygen and current. Give them a powerhead as an early Christmas present.
 
snapcrackler said:
Plecs really need/like strong water current. If there isn't enough oxygen exchange your water can test fine all day but the plecs won't have what they need.

I have raised so many plecs in my life I can't even begin to count them. They are built like tanks and even the little baby plecs have an astounding survival rate. But they really really need some oxygen and current. Give them a powerhead as an early Christmas present.

Thanks, I'll try that. :D
 
Hmmm, thanks for all the advice. Maybe it is the power head. I have one in there, but maybe it's just not circulating enough for them. I can't remember what size thank this power head was rated for.
 
Minze, I'm sorry I really have no idea what to tell you! It sounds like you've tried everything.... The only ONE thing that I (as a novice) can think to maybe suggest is (I hate the thoughts of even saying this to someone who has had the same tank going for 10 years... but) completely clean the aquarium, filter, decor, substrate.... EVERYTHING and replace all of the water. More less, start all over from scratch. Obviously you'd have to keep your fish in a quarantine tank for a few days or what have you but it may be worth it.... The only other thing I can think of to suggest is maybe try treating with copper sulfate to address any parasite issues you may have -in essence: as a disease preventative. Be careful though as this chemical is harmful to snails, invertibrates and amphibians. A good brand that has worked for me is Aquari-sol by Aquarium Products.

Neuve said:
I just bought a pleco 2, this friday, it si soo beautiful (never been a real pleco fan). Its like white with black spots all over him. I Just cant get him to eat... He's having trouble sucking on the glass, he like slips... Im gonna start with zuccini tonite...

Good luck to ya anyways

My pleco once turned white (he is usually brown with black spots). he was very ill and hungary.... Why is your pleco white? is that a specific breed of pleco or is he sick?

Joe
 
Oh my.... Looks like I am digging a bit too deep intoi the past eh.... Whoops.

*I'll be more 'date concious' in the future.

Joe
 
This might be totally off, but what temp do you keep your tank at? I had one goldfish in a 5 gallon tank for 6 years, and i would buy a pleco about every 3 months to clean the glass, he would eat all the algae and then he would die, even though i supplemented with wavers.. I now have a 55 gallon and a very healthy common pleco that has lived for 3 months so far, and someone told me the reason they died in my 5 gallon was because i didn't have a heater. Just a thought.
 
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