I've Jumped Over the Planted Tank fence!

[happygirl65]

I think I would plumb it to the return line. I think that sounds like the best idea.

Your slope looks great! I think the PVC did exactly as you hoped. It really creates a feeling of depth, much more than the 55 I had! Nice work.

I love the look of your substrate too! I think all your hard work paid off there.

Nice job planting. That is going to fill in and you will wonder where your fish are! OK I exaggerate, but it will look noticably different (fuller) in a month, you can bet on it. It's nice and bright too!

With all the changes you have made it is not surprising to have a mincycle, which it looks like has happened. Just keep an eye on things, you might have to do some more frequent water changes to counteract that while the beneficial bacteria catch back up. I think your loaches were probably more sensitive than your other fish and the one seemed very stressed after the substrate change. Don't beat yourself up too badly just continue to create that ideal environment. You are on the right track.

 

[pitt420dude]

Thanks for the encouragement.

I've decided, I'm going to go back to home depot and return pretty much everything I got last night (except the electronics and clamps).

I'm giong to buy a full length of pool filter hose to just replace what I cut up last night, and whatever couplings/clamps I'll need to hook it back up as it was.

Then all I'll have to do is just get that downflow back in place, adn (quite easily) cut the up-flow, insert the reactor, clamp the connections and watch that CO2 completely diffuse.

It is nice to have the clear tube on the reactor (or at least after the reactor) so you know you're getting 100% diffusion.

Most of the DIY reactors result in complete 100% diffusion from what I've heard, but I'm assumign that this is when the CO2 bubble is the ONLY bubble in the reactor, right?

Drop checker was ordered from ebay just now. The red sea one is nice but I like the look of the chameleon, (Dennerle is the same shape).

 

[neilanh]

If you see bubbles break the surface of the water, either in your sump or your main tank, you're not getting full diffusion.

Most reactors, like you stated, you can achieve 100% diffusion, but all reactors are limited to the amount they can diffuse. This is based on several factors in the reactor, and I don't think there's any way to predict it up front. The larger the reactor in length, the more it can handle, but it's also affected by the water flow rate(s) through the reactor as well. Bio balls or some type of rough media is used to essentially hold the bubbles in the reactor longer, giving it extra time to diffuse.

I'm concerned about you trying to maintain levels using a sump. Quite honestly, I think it's going to take you a whole lot more bps to maintain. I agree that putting the reactor on the return line will be more beneficial for your setup, but still, if you're getting a bunch of agitation on the input to the sump, you're essentially offgassing your CO2 that's built up in the water.

Your tank is looking good, I hope we're able to figure this out

 

[An t-iasg]

I think your tank looks great! All that work and research you did, especially on the substrate, paid off. It will grow lush and thick in no time!

Oh, I kind of forgot that I-79 is a pain to get to from your end of town (for your drive to Houston). I can be on I-79 in a matter of minutes!

You got a 10 pound CO2 tank filled for $80? Wow. My new and filled 5 pound one cost $79. Did you get a steel or aluminum cylinder?

 

[Glenc]

Wow, I learned a ton reading this post! I have nothing to add, everything has been pretty much covered. Your hard work and research will pay off, you will have a gorgeous tank in no time! Sit back and relax!

 

[pitt420dude]

Thanks everybody. I went to home depot again today, and instead of replacing the pool filter hose, I simply got some really thick clear acrylic tubing. This snugly fit onto both the HOB overflow and the top of the trickle canister. It was really stiff though and inflexible so that was an issue.

I did some things today to lessen surface agitation: I put the trickle cannister on its side, so the downflow releases under water, I also lowered the return to release below the surface of the water instead of slighlty above. There is almost no surface agitation in the sump, just bubbles that rise up.

In the tank itself there is a skimmer type thing the water flows into, then there is U tube that takes it from the skimmer into the HOB overflow/filter, then it runs down to the sump. I really don't know what else I'll be able to do to reduce offgasing. I ran some tests w. my new kits.

pH: 6.9
Ammonia: .25 mg/L
Nitrate: 15 ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
GH: 300
KH: around 10 mg/L

Tomorrow I will pick up KH buffer (or should I go to the store and get baking soda?)
ph is definitely lower (usually around 7.3).
Is my GH being so high anythign to worry about?
What's up with my Nitrates and ammonia? More PWC's? I did about a 10% pwc today.

 

[Purrbox]

My guess that the Ammonia is just a mini cycle as a result of the changes you've done recently. Just keep and eye on it and the number should straighten out shortly. I wouldn't worry about the GH, that just means that you should have plenty of Magnesium and Calcium for your plants.

 

[pitt420dude]

I've sort of hit a snag with the pressurized CO2. I have the Milwaukee M947 regulator hooked up and can't get more than one bps. Earlier today I had it cranking but now it's super slow no matter how I adjust the black knob or needle valve. Ideas?

I got a glass drop checker and a new carpet plant today. It's shipping from Taiwan so may take a while to get here. I'm SOoooo happy to be done. It really was quite the gaff trying to put that reactor in the pool filter hose. Major mistake. I should have, right from the get go, put it in the upflow. Oh well, live and learn. I did return lots of stuff and the new 4' piece of thick actylic tubing (to replace the pool filter hose) was only 12 bucks and fit perfectly onto the HOB overflow and trickle sump. Here are some pics to show you what is going on with filtration in my tank:

My Marineland Magnum HOB:

If you look closely at this picture, you can see the reflection of my hand and the glass. It's sort of G-dly looking, like a giant being outside of it all looking in.

My skimmer:

My Skimmer, U tube going form the skimmer into the over flow, and overflow:

I think the way the water falls thorugh the green filter and perforated pvc (similar to the spray bar actually) makes it really bubbly. Is there anything I can do about this (besides bying a $150+ cannister filter)? I didn't want the co2 releasing into this bubbly flow right?

My sump:

I turned the trickle cannister on its side so as to expose it to less air. The powerhead is on the left side of the tank. I'm in the middle of a PWC here, but I usually keep it quite full. (4/5ths or so)
Acrylic, though $3 a foot, sure beats pool filter hose.

My spray bar.

Do you think I'll have such a bad offgasing problem that I won't be able to get 30ppm CO2? With all of this "bubble/disturbance minimization", should I be worried about my fish getting enough O2 at 79 degrees? My female krib is constantly moving her mouth and gills. She isnt moving and her finse are clamped but I see no spots or sores. She isn't hungry either. Here is a pic:

She makes my male kribb shimmy all over the place. She is definitely the lady of the tank. I hope she gets back to her old self. She isn't gasping at the surface, but her mouth and gills are always moving. She also has what looks like a big long string of white poop, probably about the length of her body, floating behind her. Might she have worms?

An T-iasg, the 10lbs CO2 tank and fill was got from a place, the name of which escapes me now, they were in Carnegie, 412-278-3001. I went in to pick up my tank and a man (really nice) working there asked me what I was using it for. I said "I bet you don't get too many people in here using it for what I'm using it for" he said "Tomatoes or fish tanks?" I was surprised.

 

[Purrbox]

As long as she isn't gasping at the surface (check first thing in the morning) then oxygen levels probably aren't the issue.

For getting your CO2 setup working correctly, I recommend following the "Putting it All Together" section in this document. It helped me immensely when I set up mine. Make sure that you follow the leak check instructions closely. From everything I've heard the Milwaukee does tend to have a bit of a break in period where it takes some tweaking to get a nice steady flow at the correct level.

 

[neilanh]

Hey Pitt, I responded in your other thread with thoughts on the CO2 issue.

As far as maintaining levels, I think we've said it before, but it's going to cost you a lot more CO2 than it would without the sump. However, if you don't mind frequent refills, it's definately doable.

To Joy's point, the milwaukees do have a needed break in period. This isn't your issue, but wanted to give you a heads up. Once we get your issue worked out, you get it set to however many bps you want to run. Tomorrow, you'll need to tweak it to get it back to the target bps, and everyday you'll want to check it. Eventually it'll maintain where you set it, just takes a little time for it to break in and become stable.

 

[pitt420dude]

PB that is an immensely helpful link, thank you.

I've been tinkering. I've shut the tank tap off completely for a while now and the tank pressure is still holding steady at 800psi. This means there is no leak on the initial tank connextion right?

I've had the black knob loosened all the way for a while now and the low pressure guage is slowly dropping. Eventually, the low pressure guage should drop to zero so long as I have the needle valve open, right?

Does 1bps at around 80 psi sound right?

Oh, and how the heck am I supposed to use C. Gadd's chart when my kit won't test kh below 10 mg/L. Is that chart in degrees or mg/L??? and how do I convert it?

ph is now at 6.6.

 

[neilanh]

Yes, doesn't appear to be a leak in the high pressure side.

Yes, your low pressure will drop to 0 as the gas built up dispenses.

No, 1bps at 80psi is not right, assuming your needle valve is open. You could close the needle valve down to run this way, but you shouldn't need to deliver that much pressure on the low side - 30psi should be plenty.

It's probably in degrees. The conversion is 17.9. Degrees time 17.9 gives you mg/l, mg/l divided by 17.9 gives degrees.

 

[Purrbox]

To calculate your CO2 levels you can use this formula (the same one used to develop the chart) CO2 (in PPM) = 3 * dKH * 10^( 7-pH ).

 

[pitt420dude]

okay i understand everything in that formula except "10^(7-ph)"

BTW, the female krib died today. Only one sick loach left and that should end any losses. I think the loaches might have been very weak when I got them though. The krib had a white stringy substance trailing her.

I have my regulator knob (black one) completley shut (all the way counterclockwise/not allowing any flow whatsoever) and my needle valve wide open and hopefully overnight and throughout the day tomorrow this will release all the pressure so I can dissassmble it. The tank valve is also completley shut.

 

[neilanh]

7-pH ... so if you're pH is 6.6, that gives you 0.4

10^.4 means 10 to the .4 power. Which equals 2.51188643

I don't recall your kH, so I can't finish the rest. But, just use the chart - it's easier

 

[Purrbox]

Or just plug that formula into Excel and let it do the work for you! Even easier.

 

[pitt420dude]

Ask me the topic sentence, the protagonist's motivation, or the underlying assumption in an argument, and I'll nail it every time...but this math/sceince stuff, Ugh. I don't know if I'm a left or right brainer, but whichever is talented in math is the one that I am not.

These are not difficult calcualtions at all though. Thanks for the explanation, I sort of forgot ^ symobolized "to the power" but I've got it now. The chart is super easy (and his calculator is great too).

On my way home I will pick up seachem's kh buffer at the LFS as I badly need it. Also, I want to replace my female krib, the male looks lonely. I may hold off on this until my tank settles down a bit though. I have a $10 easter gift cert. to burn.

Oh and guess what!? My regulator problems were solved with a quick call to Milwaukee. I called first thing this morning, and told em that I still had 40psi on the right guage after having the tank valve, and black knob completely closed and the needle valve all the way open throughout the night. He was sure that my needle valve was clogged, and sent me a complimentary needle valve and bubble counter (b/c I think I made my bubble counter leak w/ either the super high pressure I put it under or by bumping it up against the tank stand).

He said the needle valve sometimes will get a shard of metal or something in it and once it's in there it is really hard to get out. He was shipping me both the needle valve and bubble counter free of charge and I told him he made a customer for life (and that all my AA buddies used Milwaukees). He was really really nice and I was shocked when he asked for my addy but never for card info. How kind is that?

As for calcualting CO2, I highly doubt ANY is in there. I'd be shocked if it was above 5ppm considering the minute amount of bubbles that have been going into the tank. I'll reassume monitoring once I get this regulator figured out.

One concern I have is whether I'll even be able to get the existing regulator off. I sure hope I don't get home from work today and find the low pressure guage still at 40 psi.

 

[neilanh]

That's awesome about milwaukee, and it sounds like he had the same ideas that we did that something somewhere was clogged up. Excellent, I hope it gets to you quickly.

As far as the kH buffer. you can get stuff at the store or you can use baking soda (NOT baking powder). Same thing. But, be careful with it. In my opinion it's better to just let the tank settle out and not attempt to control this kind of stuff. Swings are far worse than it being stable. I know you're at 0 dkH right now, so am I. But it's stable at 0 and if you attempt to buffer it it'll go up and down constantly. JMO.

If the reg does get stuck at 40psi, you can release the pressure. Unscrew the needle valve from the regulator slowly. Once the seal is broken the built up pressure will begin to release. 40psi isn't a ton of stored energy, but you have to be careful because it still is stored energy begging to be unleashed. I don't recommend doing this unless you have no other choice, and if you do end up having to release it, wear goggles and work very slowly and carefully.

 

[pitt420dude]

Good news and bad news about the regulator.

Good: the low pressure guage was indeed still holding at 40psi (good evidence of a clog in the needle valve) but getting the needle valve and bubble counter off was really easy, I just gripped it tight, turned it really slow and I slowly unscrewed until I heard a soft hiss and saw the pressure go down.

Bad: I screwed up the low pressure guage by turning the pressure so high. I was attempting to get a higher bps.

Still, it does read, it's just now 0 is just a hair under twenty.

The guy I spoke to at Milwaukee said this new needle valve will be easier to adjust and hold its rate better. I'm glad I asked him for a new bubble counter too b/c I noticed oil leaking out of a hairline crack halfway down the threads when I had the pressure up above 110 psi.

EDIT: More good news! Rich at Manzanita Burlworks - The Source for Quality Handcrafted Manzanita Products got back to me (after like 2 weeks) and I ordered a small package of DW from him for $30! Sooo cheap compared to a (one/single/solitary) small piece at petco for the same price.

I want to pop it right in my tank, I want the tannins to leech and color the water. Is this advisable?

 

[pitt420dude]

Excuse the double post. I'd edit but I think its been too long.

I just wanted to tell everybody that the guy at Milwaukee (predictably) really seemed to know his stuff. He was right. There was a clog in my needle valve and I still haven't been able to clear it.

I got 70 bubbles in 60 seconds and each valve is BARELY opened. Night and Day. I'm really happy and just like watching the bubbles come out.

The bad news is, at this rate I can't get 100% diffusion. It kinda stinks. I see bubbles coming out of the spray bar and rising to the surface and popping. You can tell they're getting broken up, and some of em are diffusing quite a bit b/c you don't see the bubbles ALL the time, just about every 5 seconds or so. Is this hazardous to our health? The environment?

I've done everything I can, and I'm sure it's getting a lot better diffusion than it would if it were in my downflow, but am out of ideas.

The only thing I have left to get in the mail that I've ordered already is my drop checker, some fissidens I ordered, my ferts from Rex and Driftwood from Manzanita.com.

How long before the CO2 has been running should I check my KH and ph to see what ppm I'm at?

Oh, I also stoped at teh LFS today to find a replacement for the female krib that died. I also got a male sword: I completley lost the previous one, never found him, even after removing all the substrate, I know they're jumpers but I never even found him outside of the tank. I also picked up 3 otos to help with my anticipated alge problems.

No clown loaches.