Lets make a nice 20 gal tank

[snifflyfro]

Hi,

Brand new to the group!

I’ve got a 20 gallon long tank all cycled and ready to go. I’m thinking about the following set-up.

2 Clown Loaches
1 Angel Fish

and then maybe some Platies, Cories or Gouramis

I’ve got an AutoFlow 150 GPH filter from my old 10 gal tank. Do you guys think I need to upgrade?

Any thoughts??
Please let me know.

 

[Menagerie]

[center:d897b66efc] Welcome, snifflyfro!!! [/center:d897b66efc]

2 Clown Loaches
1 Angel Fish
and then maybe some Platies, Cories or Gouramis

Here is a great site for basic fish info: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/categ.cfm?siteid=21&pcatid=830
The site will give you Minimum Tank Size, Care Level, Tank Conditions, Temperament, Max. Size In Aquarium, Diet, and ideal tank mates. Also, check out the Fish Profiles found here on AA.
I have never kept all of those fish and will not give my opinion, others will soon (BTW—those clown loaches like to be in groups [3 or more] and get LARGE over many years). You should do some research on the fish you are thinking about and get back to us. Also (very important!!)--What are your current water parameters (pH, hardness, etc.)? This will affect which fish you can keep. With all of this info, you may need revise your list.
Ask Qs as needed!

IMHO, you need to upgrade your filter.

 

[William]

Clowns get over a foot long IIRC.

The minimum for angelfish is around 30gal, but someone around here [ Alli I think ] keeps a breeding pair in a 15tall.


In other words, This is an all points bulletin for Alli

 

[snifflyfro]

I know that the Clown Loaches get pretty big, I figure I'll sell them back to my LFS and get some new little guys once they've outgrown the tank.

 

[snifflyfro]

Thanks for the warm welcome so far.
I know that the Clown Loaches get pretty big, I figure I'll sell them back to my LFS and get some new little guys once they've outgrown the tank.

 

[William]

Thanks for the warm welcome so far.
I know that the Clown Loaches get pretty big, I figure I'll sell them back to my LFS and get some new little guys once they've outgrown the tank.

Its really better IMHO to just buy fish that fit your tank, then to " swap out " fish that get to big.

For one, your fish get acustom to being around certain fish, and if you take him out and put another of his kind in, they don't know him, and adds stress.

Not only that, but it stresses the fish out to be ripped from an enviroment he has been established in for so long, and sent back to the cramped quarters of the LFS, to be sold and moved yet again to more unfamiliar territory.

 

[Christmasfish]

There are TONS of loaches that won't max ou that tank and be just as striking and entertaining as clowns are. (Some are better cleaners to..heh).

I got clowns to be bottom cleaners before I knew they are lousy cleaners and grew like Dane puppies! The are fish you normally get in their own right as "clowns" to provide entertainment and light cleaning. My new cory cats do twice their work now that they are in the tank. The main reason I had to get a 40 gallon
when I was originally waiting for summer and my 177 is my clowns. Yhey are bigger than my ghost knife now. They were just a wee 3 inches and now they are 5 and 7. (I got just a couple months ago this year!)
And they are real pests..a sensitive species will feel harrassed by their antics.
I am keeping mine

Also: I wouldn't suggest mixing most gourami types with angels. Both species can get kinda testy if there is not enough space and dither fish. But it's not like it hasn't never worked before. ^.^ Fish can be real individual. The nicer gourami are unfornately the larger ones. Maybe ONE pair of opal/golds or pearls. But that is like a third of your tank in fish inches right there

 

[snifflyfro]

There are TONS of loaches that won't max ou that tank and be just as striking and entertaining as clowns are. (Some are better cleaners to..heh).

I guess clown loaches are a bit too big, so what would you suggest in there place? I'm looking for a fish with they same type of unique antics of the clown loach. Any ideas?

 

[Menagerie]

Yo-yo loach (okay--no other fish has the SAME antics as the clown, but Yo-yos are smaller and fun to watch)! I just got two. There is a Yo-yo loach profile in the Fish Profiles here on AA. With the long tank--you can add a few extra bottom dwellers--cory cats are a ton of fun (I have 13 of them in the 50 gal). OH! You can also find a fish profile on Angel Fish. Lots to read here on AA

 

[Allivymar]

Did I hear my name being mentioned?

I agree; clowns are just too big for a 20g. I have 3 in a 55g and will have to either go bigger or trade em in. There are some very cool loaches that would do great in a 20g tho; yoyos will do ok, although they top out around 6 inches. I'd suggesteBotia Striata: http://www.loaches.com/species_pages/botia_striata.html . There are some other loaches which would work well; cruise thru that site to see some of the others.

Surprisingly tho, you can do 2 angels if you wish in that tank. Its 1 angel per 10g *grins at William*; I've a mated adult pair and 11 of their fry in a 25g atm with 2 rams, although the fry will be moving out soon.

I definitely suggest a small school of corys (4-6 or so). Platies need different water parameters then angels and loaches and corys, so no platies. Maybe a dwarf gourami to top off the tank. You'll have to keep up your water husbandry if you go with all those fish; they will top out your bioload.

 

[snifflyfro]

The zebra Loaches look pretty great, looks like they could be hard to find but I'll be on the phone ASAP to check out the avalibility. How many would you suggest getting?

I think I'll go with one Angel fish, let him grow up from a little guy and become an eye catching centerpiece.

What else are we thinking here? 4 or so cories and then a small school off 5 or so hatchets to be top feeders?

Does that sound OK or like too much?

 

[Endgame319]

I have a pair of skunk loaches in my 25 that are constantley active and often make me laugh out loud.

eg. I drop in a wafer for the bottom feeders (CAE and 2 skunks) and the CAE immidiately moves over and sits on it, guarding it from the skunk loaches. Then a skunk sneaks up on him, rips the wafer out from under him, and starts swimming around with the huge wafer in his mouth (mine are still quite small, I dont know how they figured out how to carry the wafers around with their little loachy mouths). The CAE chases him around a bit but finally gives up, and the skunk sits down to eat his wafer.

They are also good hiders, I thought I had lost one when I never saw him for over a week. I checked the floor, the filter, all the decorations, and the gravel, without a trace. Then one day he showed up again

You could probably get away with 3-4 zebras, the angel, and you could choose between 6 cories or 6 hatchets, hatchets like to be in schools of 6+, as do cories. If you can get the marble hatchets, as they only grow to 2 inches, as opposed to the common hatchets 3. And IMO Zebras aren't that rare, I've seen them in a few stores up here in edmonton.

 

[Allivymar]

I'd say the angelfish, 4 cories, 3 zebra loaches, and the marble hatchets but only if you are willing to do more then weekly water changes, as that tank would be pretty loaded.

Btw, Chappaqua eh? Cool; I work there *grin*

 

[snifflyfro]

ugh... just wrote a long reply and it didn't post for some reason. So here it goes again.

Thanks everybody for your responses, I think I'm going to go with the set-up that Alli suggested, I'm ready to do some work on this. Hopefully it won't be too expensive to get those bad boys :x

I'm going to test your "cycling guru" status Alli. Which of those fish should I use for cycling the tank? From what I understand the angel fish is pretty fragile, I'm thinking the Zebra Loach or the Cories?

Also, what kind of substrate should I use? I think sand looks nice but I rarely see it used in FW tanks. I guess it would make using gravel cleaner impossible since the sand would get sucked up, so how do you clean the tank? Should I just stick with gravel? I'm going for a somewhat natural look, with some rocks, a nice piece of driftwood and a bunch of plastic plants, gotta give these little guys some hiding spots.

BTW I'm up at school in Schenectady now, but am planning on buying the supplies (minus the fish) when I get back home later this week, since the tank is in my basement. I'm going to get the fish up here though. Can you suggest some fish shops in the Chappaqua area? All I know of is the Pet Food Bowl in Bedford Hills.

 

[Endgame319]

Ack, dont put your fish through the hell of a cycling tank, try using bio-spira if you can find any nearby. If not, cycle the tank with liquid ammonia. It gets the tank cycled faster than fish most of the time, plus you can add a full bio-load when you're finished.

 

[snifflyfro]

Just read about Bio-Spira, sounds like a good product. I feel like it's skipping a big part of keeping an Aquarium, but at this point I'll tackle the cycling step on my next set-up. I'm still going to introduce the little guys over a period of a couple of weeks so I don't get them too stressed.

What other chemicals should I have? Something to dechlorinate the water I guess, do I need ich preventer for the loaches?

 

[Endgame319]

So your doing a fish cycle... if you must you should only use very hardy species, none of the species you are looking at would be able to survive the cycle. And even if they do, they will probably be scarred from the ammonia and nitrites for the rest of their lives. Probably the hardiest fish you could get are zebra danios, which can tolerate much more NH3, and NO2 than most other fish. For chemicals, all I use is dechlorinator. And make sure you quarentine your fish!

 

[snifflyfro]

Don't worry, I'm going to use Bio-Spira. I don't want to scare the little guys.

How long do you quarantine your fish?

 

[Menagerie]

Endgame--you misread!!

How long do you quarantine your fish?

That's up to the individual--most people go for 2 weeks. It also depends on how well your LFS cares for the fish when they come in.

do I need ich preventer for the loaches?

I have heard (but never tried) that you can add some copper based ich med to the water and hopefully no outbreak will occur. Lucky me, I have not had loaches with this problem (I thought clowns were more prone than other loaches though). I would have some on hand in any event.
The chemical I add first is a water conditioner--binds chlorine and is an added stress coat for the fish.
Aside from all this--know your LFS "stay alive" guarantee. Some LFS are very good and some are not. With my LFS, there is 15 days for full credit and up to 30 for half (and I need to supply a water sample that the fish is not in for ammonia and nitrate testing).

 

[Christmasfish]

EeeK!
Do not in any circumstance use Copper products on scaleless fish and many, many loaches!
Though clowns have been known to respond half the time if they were still strong and good sized, they also can sucuumb easily to that mg too much of copper. Is it worth a 50/50 chance for a uneeded preventative? Khulis pretty much just drop dead.

With loaches one has to be VEEERY careful with meds...that is why they are such a big pain if ich appears! And most loaches require half strength of a med. Which is not effecient. Good QT is how to prevent out breaks that are near impossible to erase from your loaches. They sometimes can host the parasite even.
And preventative treatment is not always a good way to go about things. you may just help make stronger strains of a pathogen and weaken the fish. It is better to reasearch what is loach safe first anyway!
One needs to firmly understand that most fish meds work on the priciple that "iffen it don kill ya it'll cure ya!"
Heavy metals can kill anything once enough is in the system. Even people. And nearly all parasite killers are a heavy metal of some sort.
Some cause sterility and defects in breeding stock..yet are still available.

I am by no means a loach expert but I did research extensively the types I have. My clowns went from wee 2-3 inch fish to big 5and 7 inch monsters since they were added this year. Must be doin something right ^_^ Do please research the species before dosing them with ANY thing.....!
Of course, I am also waaay anal on frequent large water changes and long QTs. Especially my full dutch tanks. I do not want ever to lose a fishie to preventable symptoms again.