Need some help with algae problems and a fert dosing routine

[eco23]

Please keep in mind my knowledge of plants basically stops at…...they're green, pretty and they like water and light.

I’ve been dealing with a couple types of algae the past few weeks; on the plants it appears to be hair algae, and on the substrate and glass there’s what I guess is green spot algae, although it does appear fuzzy when you look closely at the rocks. The water has never been crystal clear, I dealt with green water at a point...but I don't believe that's related to the slight haziness I have now.

Here’s my setup-


46 gallon bow front, height is 20 inches. This particular tank was set up in early March.



Plants- Vals, Rotala Rotofundia, Water Sprite (both planted and floating), Ambulia, a Marimo Ball and Java Moss.


Lighting- Zoo-Med T-5 HO, 1 “Ultra Sun” 39 watt 6,500k and the other bulb is actinic. I normally only run the lights ~6 hours per day.


Parameters- 0 ammo, 0 no2, ~10-15 no3, pH 7.5


Ferts- The only ferts I use are Seachem root tabs. I have a liquid Aqueon Plant food…but I’m scared to use it because after dosing it once…I had green water for 2 weeks. No co2 is run in the tank (which I want to avoid).



I don't overfeed...I normally feed every other day and gravel vac once a week.


*Since I’m clueless...do I need more light (switch out the actinic)? Less light? More ferts? No ferts? More plants? Less plants? All my plants grow like weeds (the Vals have never looked fantastic but they grow like crazy), they just dont seem to out-compete the algae.

Thanks for any help!!!

 

[Sparky74]

I am by far an expert as well, but I can give you my experience as a learning beginner.

How old is the bulb? I had algae issues when my bulbs were getting old.

Do you use excel or any source of carbon? I find if I dose religiously with excel daily, I have very little, if any, algae problems.

Co2 helps, but I found it can make algae worse if levels are not consistent.

 

[eco23]

Thanks. The bulbs are only a couple of months old. I don't use any liquid ferts because my tank exploded with green water the last time I dosed it (so I'm a bit scared of them, lol). I've heard of Excel...but I've heard members recommend both for and against it.

 

[jpchin]

i agree with sparky74. since i started to use seachem exel i have no algae problem. you use it daily. another thing i added to my tank at the same time i started to use exel was 2 sailfin mollies. do you have enough room for a few of them? they grow to about 3". they are hair algae eating machines. i have a pretty heavy planted tank and had quite a bit of hair algae when i got them. in about a week to week and a half they had all the plants cleaned up and have been on the job since then. also when they raise their sailfin it is beautiful! i have the dalmation. they are black and white with a blue sheen on their bodies. really nice community fish as well.

 

[eco23]

I'm pretty close to stocked, and I've also got Amano Shrimp and Otos in there to help clean up a bit. I'll have to look into the excel.

Does my lighting seem to be okay? I'd like to keep it as it is at virtually all costs. If I had to ditch the actinic...I'd never hear the end of it from the missus, lol.

 

[eco23]

I'm seeing some conflicting info online about using Excel with Vals...but the overwhelming majority of opinions seems to be that they are not compatible. Does anyone have experience with this?

 

[Coleallensmom]

So the bulbs are new? Does this tank get any sunlight at all? Are you possibly overfeeding? How well planted is your tank?

I'm not an expert by any means but in a planted tank, algae usually means an imbalance of nutrients. It is all about balancing your light and ferts and the amount of plants that you have. Assuming ferts are not a limiting factor for photosynthesis or contributing to the algae in your tank in any way, then the issue may be your lighting. Too much light is often the first thought when it comes to diagnosing the cause of algae but it stands to reason that algae can also be a symptom of not enough light as insufficient light can limit plant growth- giving algae the opportunity to grow. Is there a reason you are running an actinic? At just 39w, you have less than 1 wpg. There shouldn't be any reason why you couldn't stick a pink plant growth lamp in there.

 

[Coleallensmom]

I'm seeing some conflicting info online about using Excel with Vals...but the overwhelming majority of opinions seems to be that they are not compatible. Does anyone have experience with this?

Vals and Excel usually don't mix. It's been well documented that Excel can cause vals to melt, however iIME t is possible to dose excel in a tank with vals. I kept vals in one of my tanks for a while...the vals were fine as long as I dosed the Excel in the corner furthest away from them. The one time I forgot and dumped Excel on top of the vals, it almost killed the vals off completely.

 

[eco23]

So the bulbs are new? Does this tank get any sunlight at all? Are you possibly overfeeding? How well planted is your tank?

I'm not an expert by any means but in a planted tank, algae usually means an imbalance of nutrients. It is all about balancing your light and ferts and the amount of plants that you have. Assuming ferts are not a limiting factor for photosynthesis or contributing to the algae in your tank in any way, then the issue may be your lighting. Too much light is often the first thought when it comes to diagnosing the cause of algae but it stands to reason that algae can also be a symptom of not enough light as insufficient light can limit plant growth- giving algae the opportunity to grow. Is there a reason you are running an actinic? At just 39w, you have less than 1 wpg. There shouldn't be any reason why you couldn't stick a pink plant growth lamp in there.

There's no direct sunlight on the tank...in fact, the room this tank is in is pretty dim.

I'm 99.9% sure I'm not overfeeding. I even turn my filter off for feeding time, feed at the front of the tank and nothing hits the substrate except for the occasional shrimp pellets and wafers I add for the Corys and Otos.

My tank is relatively well planted (you can see some pics in my profile, though it's actually more filled in now).

I am definitely not leaving the light on too long. If anything, maybe the problem is that it's not on long enough. Usually ~6 hours a day is normal. I've even cut back a bit more since the algae started showing up a bit more than I'd like.

I was under the impression the watt per gallon rule really doesn't apply with T-5 HO's...but I'm really a newb when it comes to plants. The actinic is for aesthetics. My wife loves the bluish tint (I do too), and unfortunately it's one of the components I'm not really willing to remove. It's also great in the evenings to leave just the actinic on (I always turn it off before bed) to add a great look and lighting to the room.

Maybe a 3 bulb system so I can still run the actinic should be considered? However, I've heard some very trusted sources on this site say that 2 daylight bulbs will out you right on the edge of needing co2.

It's also not an algae explosion going on by any means...it's more that I'm OCD about my tanks...and it drives me nuts, lol.

It does make sense though when you said maybe it is lack of lighting instead of too much. Maybe the reduction in lighting is actually compounding the problem instead of helping it (which was my intention).

 

[Coleallensmom]

There's no direct sunlight on the tank...in fact, the room this tank is in is pretty dim.

I'm 99.9% sure I'm not overfeeding. I even turn my filter off for feeding time, feed at the front of the tank and nothing hits the substrate except for the occasional shrimp pellets and wafers I add for the Corys and Otos.

Just had to ask. Excess phosphates, silicates, and uneaten food can lead to an algae bloom.

My tank is relatively well planted (you can see some pics in my profile, though it's actually more filled in now).

I am definitely not leaving the light on too long. If anything, maybe the problem is that it's not on long enough. Usually ~6 hours a day is normal. I've even cut back a bit more since the algae started showing up a bit more than I'd like.

I was under the impression the watt per gallon rule really doesn't apply with T-5 HO's...but I'm really a newb when it comes to plants. The actinic is for aesthetics. My wife loves the bluish tint (I do too), and unfortunately it's one of the components I'm not really willing to remove. It's also great in the evenings to leave just the actinic on (I always turn it off before bed) to add a great look and lighting to the room.

Maybe a 3 bulb system so I can still run the actinic should be considered? However, I've heard some very trusted sources on this site say that 2 daylight bulbs will out you right on the edge of needing co2.

It doesn't necessarily apply but <1 wpg is not very much light regardless. I can understand why you might enjoy running the actnic, but a simple led moonlight would give much the same affect and give you room to add a plant lamp or another 6,500k lamp to your fixture.

It's also not an algae explosion going on by any means...it's more that I'm OCD about my tanks...and it drives me nuts, lol.

It does make sense though when you said maybe it is lack of lighting instead of too much. Maybe the reduction in lighting is actually compounding the problem instead of helping it (which was my intention).

I'm not saying that's your issue, but I do think it's a possible contributor. I've even heard aquarists that swear using actnic bulbs in freshwater setups can cause algae. Now whether this is true or not Idk, but like I said before- it's stands the reason that if your plant's growth are being prohibited by your light or lack thereof, it could cause an imbalance.

See my thoughts in red above.

 

[eco23]

Thanks for the advice, I think maybe my first attempt will be towards bumping my photo period back up. I tend to overreact, and as soon as I saw a bit of hair algae show up I cut my photo period back. For whatever reason I thought less light would = less algae...but apparently I've got it backwards in my personal case.

If worse does to worse, maybe I can talk the missus out of the actinic and pick up a plant bulb.

I like the idea of the LED moonlights, but I've only seen the Marineland one...and to me it looks awful. It seems to have a really artificial appearance which is WAY too blue IMO. I may need to ask around and see if another company makes one with a more natural light.

 

[alex07]

I'm seeing some conflicting info online about using Excel with Vals...but the overwhelming majority of opinions seems to be that they are not compatible. Does anyone have experience with this?

I have vals in all of my tanks, in 2 of them I dose excel daily when the lights are on and in the other I have a diy paintball tank co2 running 24/7. I haven't seen anything go wrong with the vals at all, actually instead of growing taller they're spreading. I did have somewhat algae issues before, I don't know if excel and co2 has been helping me from getting algae or not. As for the only thing I dose for the water column is API Leafzone weekly.

Why dont you try dosing excel to see what it does for your tank?

 

[alex07]

Thanks for the advice, I think maybe my first attempt will be towards bumping my photo period back up. I tend to overreact, and as soon as I saw a bit of hair algae show up I cut my photo period back. For whatever reason I thought less light would = less algae...but apparently I've got it backwards in my personal case.

If worse does to worse, maybe I can talk the missus out of the actinic and pick up a plant bulb.

I like the idea of the LED moonlights, but I've only seen the Marineland one...and to me it looks awful. It seems to have a really artificial appearance which is WAY too blue IMO. I may need to ask around and see if another company makes one with a more natural light.

You can check this out for moonlight, cheap and I think it looks good
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f20/diy-moonlight-162302.html

 

[eco23]

You can check this out for moonlight, cheap and I think it looks good
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f20/diy-moonlight-162302.html

I may have to resort to that if the other methods don't work. I just hate how blue they are. It just looks very artificial to me. I have the Marineland LED kit on my 10 gallon QT...and after turning it on once, I said ugh...and never have turned it on again. The picture of my actinic in my profile pic exaggerates the blue...but in reality it is a very mellow bluish / violet color that is much more natural IMO. I never leave the actinic on overnight, just until the late evening basically for mood lighting.

The Vals are kind of the highlight of my plants...so I'm definitely nervous about risking them, but I'll need to give something a shot if I can't knock out the algae issue.

 

[alex07]

Im telling you from experience in dosing excel with vals, i havent seen any negative issues and I also add .5 ml to the recommended dosage.

 

[alex07]

I can almost assure you that most of the negatives that you have read is not from personal experience only from read off of other posts or word of mouth.

 

[eco23]

I can almost assure you that most of the negatives that you have read is not from personal experience only from read off of other posts or word of mouth.

That seems to be the case quite often with forums, lol. I'll probably give it a shot this weekend.

 

[alex07]

What ever you do just keep us updated, we'll come up with a solution.

 

[Coleallensmom]

I may have to resort to that if the other methods don't work. I just hate how blue they are. It just looks very artificial to me. I have the Marineland LED kit on my 10 gallon QT...and after turning it on once, I said ugh...and never have turned it on again. The picture of my actinic in my profile pic exaggerates the blue...but in reality it is a very mellow bluish / violet color that is much more natural IMO. I never leave the actinic on overnight, just until the late evening basically for mood lighting.

The Vals are kind of the highlight of my plants...so I'm definitely nervous about risking them, but I'll need to give something a shot if I can't knock out the algae issue.

If I were in your place, I would totally research types of moonlighting. That actnic bulb running all day and evening could actually be the root of any issues you are having. There are a lot of fixtures that come with Lunar lights now and it's pretty simple to even add them yourself.

I have this fixture on my 50 gal-
Current Usa Nova Extreme T5ho in Aquatic - Lighting available in our Aquatic Department at PetCareRx.com
Not near as bright as the actnic you're running but I can leave the lunar lights on all night w/o any issues.

 

[eco23]

I just thought of another clue which might fit into the equation. My Water Sprite used to be big and bushy...and even though it still grows like crazy (especially the floating ones), the ones in the substrate have become rather "stringy" like the roots have been taking over the plant instead of new growth. I've heard that Water Sprite draws it's nutrients from the water...does that pretty much show that there is a nutrient deficiency in the water column?

Unless someone has a different course of action to recommend...I guess I'll start with a good liquid fert, and if I don't see improvement or the algae gets worse...I'll have to start considering actually increasing my light intensity. I'm still new to planted tanks...and am having a hard time wrapping my mind around more light = less algae...but I guess that's part of the issue.