New 30 Gallon Set Up

[FishDroid26]

Hello again AA. While I've fallen into the snare of the ignorance which is having a 10 gallon with a black moor Goldfish, I went ahead and bought a 30 gallon with stand off Clist for about $50.

Here is the tank sitting empty for about a month while I made sure I cleaned it out and bought the proper Ace Janitorial Ammonia and Aqua Clear 70 Filter.

Finally I had a 30 gallon set up...now as of August 1st I set up the gravel which by the way I did Half stones and half Silica sand, good idea or not?

Well I thought I had researched enough but made the mistake of Overdosing the Ammonia so I've had to do some PWC here and there to get it down.

I plan to buy a driftwood with Anubia from Petco, does anyone know if that DW is any good or should it be fine?

I have been using the API liquid test kit for FW and using Seachem Prime to dechlorinate. I've left the light off and its Day 5 with Ammo @ 4.0
No seeded material since the 10 gallon seems like it will never cycle -_-
Anyway I'll update every so often until the tank cycle and decor is complete.

 

[FishDroid26]

Just when I thought I had read enough on FISHLESS cycling, I need help.
I began my fishless cycle from August 1st. I dosed or overdosed Ammonia but did a few PWC to bring it down to about 4.0 ppm. I shouldn't have but I used 1 capful of SeaChem Stability, even though I doubt it did anything.

Fast forward to 8/10 when I tested for NitRITE for the first time and got a reading of about 1.0 then also got TrAtes @ 5.0.

8/12 Ammo = .50
TrIte = 5.0+
TrAte = 10-20
pH = 7.6

8/14 Ammonia = 0 (redosed)
TrIte = 5.0 +
TrAte = 10-20
pH = 7.0 - 7.2
I should add my pH looked like it had gone real low so I did a 50% PWC and it read back at 7.6-7.8 last night

TODAY 8/15
pH is around 6.8-7.0 maybe slightly lower
Ammonia was 0 (redosed)
NitrIte - 5.0 +
NitrAte = 40

I was really excited that the cycle would be over soon until the pH drops, so from here what do I do? Do I continue to do PWC whenever the pH drops to restore buffer or whatever?

 

[FishDroid26]

Maybe the previous post wasn't so clear.
I've been cycling since 8/1 and as of 8/14-8/16 I did a 50% pwc due to pH dropping.
I checked again yesterday 8/15 and the pH dropped again from 7.6 to about 6.8, am I experiencing a pH crash? What do I do at this point? should I do a bigger water change until everything remains stable?
Thanks for the help.

I haven't checked anything this morning but I'll do that and check back here.

 

[librarygirl]

PH fluctuations are common in cycling tanks. You're doing pretty well for only having started a couple of weeks ago though! I'm not sure if the stability is causing weird readings, but the ammonia is being converted every day so that's positive news. I think you can keep an eye on the PH.....6.8 isn't SUPER low, so it might not stall things, but I'm not an expert either. I'll send Eco a message and ask him to take a look at this.

***edit***
I sent Eco23 the PM with the link to this thread.

 

[eco23]

Sorry we all missed your thread . You're in good hands with Librarygirl. IMO, this is a classic example of when crushed coral or aragonite is a fantastic tool for fishless cycling. The cycling process causes havoc on your pH because the nitrifying bacteria are consuming the buffers which hold it steady and excreting acidic waste at the same time. This can cause your pH to plummet and will only become more and more of a problem as the cycle progresses.

Personally I'd suggest running to the fish store and buying either some crushed coral or aragonite sand. Stick a small handful in a mesh media bag (also sold there) and place it preferably into your filter...anywhere in the tank would help though. That will raise the kH, and GH and will hold everything steady until your cycle is complete.

Once cycled, you can just pull the bag out, do a pwc and remove it's buffering effects...but honestly with the way you're experiencing fluctuations it might not be a bad idea to leave a tiny bit in permanently.

In all of my tanks I keep a tiny bag of CC because I have ridiculously low alkalinity, and without it I've experienced pH crashes before. That's bad enough when cycling because it can really freeze or sometimes reverse your cycle...but with fish in the tank it can be a potentially deadly issue. The key once you are stocked is to just add enough where it buffers the water...but not so much that it dramatically raises pH. In my 46 gallon I have a few pinches...in my smaller tanks I literally only have a few pieces. During cycling it won't really matter and you can throw a ton in if you wanted and adjust the amount after the tank is cycled.

Both CC and aragonite are commonly used as substrate, so it should be easy to find. I got mine from PetSmart. They tend to come in big bags (although you only need a small amount)...but luckily it's not expensive.

In the mean time I'd continue the pwc's. If you're gonna do it...you might as well make it a massive one large enough to get the no2 down to .5-1. It may take a 90% or a couple back to back ones.

 

[FishDroid26]

Thanks a lot for the responses. I did go to the LFS today to check for CC or Aragonite sand, they had a marine brand one that said Live aragonite sand and it did mention about instant cycle for $5 I didn't buy it though since I'm not sure if that would help. A sales rep recommended I buy a PH stability bottle or Seachem Buffer. I didn't buy either since I read somewhere that baking soda works the same, would that be helpful at this point?

Anyway I did about 70-80 % water change and got a reading of pH 7.2 where usually my tap provides 7.6-7.8
I'll check on the cycle again tomorrow and post any other emergency updates if needed. Thanks again, I'll probably end up going to petSmart when I can to check on the Crushed Coral.

 

[eco23]

Thanks a lot for the responses. I did go to the LFS today to check for CC or Aragonite sand, they had a marine brand one that said Live aragonite sand and it did mention about instant cycle for $5 I didn't buy it though since I'm not sure if that would help. A sales rep recommended I buy a PH stability bottle or Seachem Buffer. I didn't buy either since I read somewhere that baking soda works the same, would that be helpful at this point?

Anyway I did about 70-80 % water change and got a reading of pH 7.2 where usually my tap provides 7.6-7.8
I'll check on the cycle again tomorrow and post any other emergency updates if needed. Thanks again, I'll probably end up going to petSmart when I can to check on the Crushed Coral.

Happy to help . I'd avoid baking soda. I've never researched it deeply...but it's not as effective as CC and it also needs to be replaced anytime you change water.

I'd absolutely steer clear of the "live sand". Those contain the wrong type of bacteria and can potentially cause you serious problems down the road. The buffering products aren't the end of the world...but personally I always go for a natural product like crushed coral which is basically just shells. I'd avoid any pH up products since they tend to raise pH, but not actually buffer anything which is not a solution in your case.

Let us know how it's going

 

[librarygirl]

Thanks Eco! I was going to recommend the CC but I didn't know if it could be used safely in all circumstances or if the PH had to be consistently very low for a long time before using it, hence asking you. Now I've learned something else!

 

[eco23]

Thanks Eco! I was going to recommend the CC but I didn't know if it could be used safely in all circumstances or if the PH had to be consistently very low for a long time before using it, hence asking you. Now I've learned something else!

Yeah, CC is awesome. The only way it's even remotely dangerous is if you were to suddenly drop a ton of it into a tank full of fish. In that case it can cause a sudden increase in pH, kH and GH which is bad for your fishies.

When you add it to a tank with fish, just do it slowly. Personally I add a pinch, let it run for a day, add another pinch, etc...until I've raised the kH to a decent level, but it hasn't had any major impact on the pH level.

IMO, it's a fantastic tool for fish keeping, and is basically a cure-all for low hardness, alkalinity and pH problems.

 

[FishDroid26]

8/17 Fishless Cycle log...Now I'm confused, after the advice provided yesterday about the low pH, I just tested about 10 minutes ago and got a HIGH pH reading of 8.3 ...very strange.
I did do an ammonia test this morning and got 0 so I dosed it back up to 4 and also added some ground up fish flake just a little bit. NitrItes/TrAtes are still around.

To help for the question that might be asked "did you do/add anything different?"

I'll admit, I added a small 5" stem of Anacharis from my 10 gallon, and also turned ON the light in the 30 gallon for about 2 hours. Other than that I didn't do anything. I know I've read reports of the pH dropping during a cycle but is it normal for it to drop and the Rise so much like that?

 

[eco23]

8/17 Fishless Cycle log...Now I'm confused, after the advice provided yesterday about the low pH, I just tested about 10 minutes ago and got a HIGH pH reading of 8.3 ...very strange.
I did do an ammonia test this morning and got 0 so I dosed it back up to 4 and also added some ground up fish flake just a little bit. NitrItes/TrAtes are still around.

To help for the question that might be asked "did you do/add anything different?"

I'll admit, I added a small 5" stem of Anacharis from my 10 gallon, and also turned ON the light in the 30 gallon for about 2 hours. Other than that I didn't do anything. I know I've read reports of the pH dropping during a cycle but is it normal for it to drop and the Rise so much like that?

pH fluctuations can happen, but from the 6's up to 8.2 doesn't sound reasonable to me. I'm thinking it must've been a bad test. You're using the API liquid kit, right? Is it possible you mixed up the high range and regular pH bottle? I'm assuming you didn't add CC yet? The plant and lighting really won't have any effect.

Another experiment you can do is leave a glass of tap water sitting out for 24 hours and see how much the pH changes compared to directly from the tap. If you've got an air stone you can toss in there that will help give a more accurate #.

 

[FishDroid26]

Right I'm using the API master test kit. I couldn't believe my eyes when I did the pH test so I did a High pH and got the 8.2 reading.

Now I did see something about it POSSIBLY being the PFS silica sand I have causing the fluctuation or just something about ammonia and kh/gh altering during the cycle. I don't know, just found it strange that it had gone up but I guess time will tell how things go right?

I've been patient but also look forward to seeing blue for the NitrItes. Wife won't stop bugging me about when will it be finished.

Also I'm not using a heater, but living in the Valley in Los Angeles means I don't need one right now since water temp is constantly at 78-80 degrees
We expect 104 degrees tomorrow

 

[FishDroid26]

New update today, still no good news.

I tested nitrIte still 5.0 +
here is the problem, Ammonia which was consistently dropping from 4-0 each day has dropped but still at about 1-2 ppm.

pH which was at a high 8.3 dropped down to about 6.6

I was planning to do a BIG water change but I think I'll wait until later today or Tomorrow to see where the Ammonia and pH levels are.

Could it be that my cycle is stalling?

 

[eco23]

New update today, still no good news.

I tested nitrIte still 5.0 +
here is the problem, Ammonia which was consistently dropping from 4-0 each day has dropped but still at about 1-2 ppm.

pH which was at a high 8.3 dropped down to about 6.6

I was planning to do a BIG water change but I think I'll wait until later today or Tomorrow to see where the Ammonia and pH levels are.

Could it be that my cycle is stalling?

pH crash = bad news. Break out the buckets and restore the value of your tap water. Check out the guide in my signature. There's info about pH crashes and the importance of preventing / correcting them...there's also a section about about stalls (which is IMO connected to your pH drop).

 

[FishDroid26]

Got it, I wouldn't want my cycle to stall.

Time to load up on water -_- good thing I bought a new bottle of prime, my other one is about done.

 

[FishDroid26]

So I managed to do about 80-90 % water change today. I only tested NitrIte still about 5+ and niTrAte still about 20-40. The pH did get to a stable reading of 7.6 though so that is good. I dosed ammo up to about 3-4 so I'll see where this goes tomorrow.

Question, because I did do a pretty big water change and didn't see my nitrAte drop below 20, when I put fish in there will it be a different story or will I have to do a pretty BIG x2 50% pwc to drop them to a decent amount?