Newbie help!

[Witt1121]

I am brand new to the fish and aquarium community. Recently my boys wanted some fish and my wife and I said yes. Although I do not have "experience" I am quite efficient and diligent in reading and making sure I follow instructions. With that said I've found myself having some issues I'm hoping to get help on.

So here's my set-up and fish currently:

-Aqueon 15 gal column tank kit which includes QuietFlow 10 filter, heater and light
-White gravel from PetSmart
-1 large and 2 small plastic TopFin coral cave pieces from PetSmart
-1 large plastic plant kit (3 total)

And here's my fish:

-2 small Pictus Catfish
-3 small Red Wag Platy
-1 small Sunburst Platy
-1 smaller Black Molly
-1 smaller Dalmation Molly
-1 small Rubber Lip Plecostomus

A little history:

The tank was my sister and was given to my boys. We cleaned everything thoroughly before re-setting back up with water, no cleaners. The gravel and plastic coral were all cleaned under cold water prior to using. The tank sat cycling for 3 days prior to any fish being introduced using Aqueon water conditioner and APi Stress Zyme. The first batch was 6 fish being introduced and the 2nd batch was 3 more to complete our set-up.

The tank has been set-up for 2 weeks now and I've gone through many ups and down on water clarity and quality. After the first 5 days all looked great and then for the past 7 days it has gotten cloudy. I started doing water changes every other day and then daily for 25-30% of the water. It would be pretty clear, but still wasn't crystal clear like the store or what online says. About 7 days in I had the water tested and again at 10 days in and the ammonia level was kind of high. So I used an ammonia neutralizer and did an 75% water change. I had the water retested yesterday and it was better, but still needed to be lower. So I used another dose of ammonia neutralizer and did a 25% water change. I plan to do another water change and retest the ammonia this evening. Oh and I used Super Ick Cure 2 days ago because we had reason to believe a fish or 2 may have gotten Ich and wanted to be safer than sorry.

Since the last water change, Super Ich treatment and ammonia treatment 2 days ago the activity of the fish is 100 times better. I believe I'm on the right track, but the water is still not clear like everyone says it should be. It's not "milky", but more of dusty like when you use the faucet in a pail. The difference is that settles and my tank has not.

So with this all said and known, what should I do? I do not believe overfeeding is an issue. Is the QuietFlow 10, which claims 100 gal an hour, enough? With the taller tank is the stock filter tube far enough down in the tank to circulate the water properly?? Should I add a air bubbler to help?

I know there's a lot of info here, but I wanted to share all I could to help start a conversation to get this addressed. Please respond with any info or additional questions you may have. We've lost, and replaced under warranty, 3 fish already. I'm hoping to get this set-up properly to where we don't lose any more. Thank you in advance-

Josh

 

[ImACoolguy]

Hello! Great to have you here..

What we have here is a common case of an uncycled tank. Unlike what you might hear from the store, tanks will never cycle that fast. From scratch it takes 3-6 weeks or more to complete a cycle fully.

Here's what I use for social media: it should answer most of your questions..

What is cycling? Cycling is short the Nitrogen Cycle. Basically, bacteria live in your tank, they are what consumes waste so it doesn't become toxic and harm your fish. But your filter does not just "come with bacteria" right out of the box! This is where cycling comes in.

Why is cycling important? Many people have said "well I didn't cycle and my fish are just fine!" Well that's because most of those people have very hardy fish like bettas, guppies, etc, they can rough it through a cycle without issue.

Where does bacteria live? Let's make this really simple: 97%=filter 2%=substrate 1% water, decor, and plants. Basically, your filter is the home of all the bacteria you care about.

Where does bacteria come from and how do I grow it? This is the miracle of nature and science. I can't tell you specifically "where" bacteria comes from, only because I don't know. What I do now is how to grow bacteria, otherwise known is cycling a tank.

What you need to cycle a tank:
1. LIQUID test kit- I will stress this till the day I die. Test strips are junk. Liquid looks expensive but in reality you save a bunch of money because it can do 200+ tests for $10 more than a 25 pack of strips. I mean who wouldn't snag that deal?? You MUST have a test kit that you can get actual numbers from or else cycling will be near impossible without trips to the store for them to do it.

2. An ammonia source. This can be produced in a variety of ways. Fish obviously is the first method, this is the path of FISH-IN cycling. Simple right? Other sources include 10% grade ammonia from the hardware store, this is only a couple bucks. You can use uncooked shrimp from the grocery store and put it in a pantyhose so it doesn't make a mess. Or plain fish food is fine too but not as effective sometimes. These sources are used for a FISHLESS cycle.

Why do we need an ammonia source? This is what begins cycling. Ammonia is what feeds your bacteria to where they can reproduce and allows you to continue through the nitrogen cycle.

Enough questions let's get on with it:

Fishless cycling: this is really easy method, but you have an empty tank. On the flip side, you can do whatever adjustments you want to it so when you get fish it's perfect. If you are dosing ammonia by the bottle: shoot for 3ppm-4ppm. Google can provide a dosing calculator so you can know just how much to dose for your tank size. If you are using a table shrimp, just throw it in, it will naturally boost the ammonia and you just add a new shrimp when the other has decomposed. Now you want to use your test kit to measure how much ammonia you need to dose, it's simple math once you know how much makes 3ppm.

Fish-in cycling: This is where it can get tricky. Because you have fish you need to keep them safe. During a cycle, this will require daily testing and quite possibly daily water changes. You want to keep ammonia under 1ppm and nitrite under 0.50ppm if possible as both are highly toxic to fish.

Both cycles: in the beginning you will see ammonia start to rise, over time, the bacteria will overcome this and in a fishless you will need to start dosing daily(bottled ammonia) as time goes on. From there you will move to nitrites. Once you hit nitrites this is the longest phase. One day you will wake up and nitrites will be gone and you will be left with nitrAtes. Nitrates is the final product of the nitrogen cycle and is non toxic in lower levels. This is then removed through your weekly water changes.

Once the cycle is completed you should not see any signs on ammonia and nitrites, because now your tank is cycled.

Bacterial supplements: please understand these are a game of chance. They don't always work, sometimes they do nothing. Just know, I have NEVER seen one of these fully complete a cycle, only give a jump start. Please keep that in mind that just because you dump a bottle in doesn't mean your tank cycled..


Caleb

 

[Witt1121]

Very informative thank you. I will buy a test kit today and carefully go over your notes again. I was aware in could take time and 3-6 weeks was normal, I guess the "patience" people stress was not exercised because of the elevated ammonia levels and fish dying.

I obviously am going the fish-in cycling route and low ammonia hasn't been the issue. Yesterday I was around 1.0 or a tad under, so I'll do daily tests and water changes until I get the optimal levels. I believe prior to the Ammonia Neutralizer I was closer to 2.5 or 3.0. I opted to get an over the counter Ammonia Neutralizer so my fish didn't die and I think it helped.

So based on my original post a bubbler or different filter should NOT be necessary?

Also, once I get on weekly water changes what percent weekly do you recommend? I see 25% commonly called out, do you agree??

Last, the carbon filters we have say replace every 6 weeks. Do you agree with this as well?

I'm going to buy a kit and post some numbers tomorrow or the next day to see what you or others think. Thanks for your initial repsonse and info-

Josh

 

[brennae]

Carbon is inert after a week or two. The type of filter cartridges I think your filter takes can just be rinsed in dirty tank water and reused. Don't use straight tap water or you'll kill the beneficial bacteria you are trying to build up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[ImACoolguy]

Very informative thank you. I will buy a test kit today and carefully go over your notes again. I was aware in could take time and 3-6 weeks was normal, I guess the "patience" people stress was not exercised because of the elevated ammonia levels and fish dying.

I obviously am going the fish-in cycling route and low ammonia hasn't been the issue. Yesterday I was around 1.0 or a tad under, so I'll do daily tests and water changes until I get the optimal levels. I believe prior to the Ammonia Neutralizer I was closer to 2.5 or 3.0. I opted to get an over the counter Ammonia Neutralizer so my fish didn't die and I think it helped.

So based on my original post a bubbler or different filter should NOT be necessary?

Also, once I get on weekly water changes what percent weekly do you recommend? I see 25% commonly called out, do you agree??

Last, the carbon filters we have say replace every 6 weeks. Do you agree with this as well?

I'm going to buy a kit and post some numbers tomorrow or the next day to see what you or others think. Thanks for your initial repsonse and info-

Josh

Patience is something that we all need for this hobby most things do not happen quickly.

If you are having trouble keeping ammonia low, Prime is a water conditioner made by Seachem. I use it myself, it will bind with ammonia turning it into ammonium for around 24 hours. Ammonium is not near as harmful. Please be aware: your test kit will read all ammonia and ammonium as the same thing. So if you have 3.0ppm ammonia that has been neutralized into ammonium by Prime, your test kit will still read 3.0ppm ammonia.

Bubblers are completely cosmetic or to increase oxygen levels. Under most circumstances though, you should never have to worry about oxygenation levels in your tank if you have water movement and surface agitation in the tank.

I change 50% weekly in my tanks. More if need be. As a starter, test your nitrates at the end of the week. This will help you determine how much to change and how often. It's recommended that you do not let nitrates exceed 40ppm. Though 20 is preferable. Past 40ppm it can effect the fishes immune system making them more susceptible to disease.

Carbon is not essential in any way, use it on your own terms. What carbon does is remove impurities in the water such as tannins from driftwood, medications from treatments, etc. I only use carbon if I need it, not run it all the time.


Caleb

 

[ImACoolguy]

Carbon is inert after a week or two. The type of filter cartridges I think your filter takes can just be rinsed in dirty tank water and reused. Don't use straight tap water or you'll kill the beneficial bacteria you are trying to build up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Aquarium Advice mobile app

THIS^ I forgot to mention. Only rinse your filter contents in dechlorinated water, easiest way is when you are doing a water change and removing water any way. The chlorine in tap water will kill the bacteria living in your filter.


Caleb

 

[Witt1121]

Great thank you! I will get the kit and proceed. I will plan to do a 50% water change weekly, but will check the nitrates first. Once I get a kit I'll test the water and post some numbers.

As far as the filter goes, what you are saying is I can properly rinse off the carbon filter I'm using and use it long term?

 

[ImACoolguy]

Great thank you! I will get the kit and proceed. I will plan to do a 50% water change weekly, but will check the nitrates first. Once I get a kit I'll test the water and post some numbers.

As far as the filter goes, what you are saying is I can properly rinse off the carbon filter I'm using and use it long term?

The pads and bio balls whatever, rinse them in tank water. Carbon use of you so choose.

During the fish in cycle, weekly is t going to cut it. After your cycle, weekly will be fine


Caleb

 

[nightswake]

Calebs right with fish in cycling better to change 50% every other day until your tank has cycled

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[buffalochip]

with fish in cycle once weekly water change is not enough. Just went thru one and most of the time had 30% water change every other day. test kit will tell you how often. you will see only ammonia for 3-4 weeks then nitrite will start to appear.

 

[Witt1121]

Test kit arrived!

Okay, wanted to post some numbers after my test with the new API kit I got.

2 weeks to the day the tank was initially set-up. For the past week I've been doing 25%-50% water changes daily. I rinsed the filter off in the removed tank water just to get the crap off and put it back in.

Since my initial post I lost a Red Wag Platy, so we're down to 2 of those. Last night I think my ammonia was closer to 2.0, give or take depending on the accuracy of the PetSmart strip. She was the smallest by a good amount and think she couldn't handle the cycle changes and elevated ammonia.

We've also decided, with the help and advice of the local PetSmart, not to replace the dying fish until we run our cycle. To decrease waste and therefore ammonia we will use what we have left which is:

-2 Pictus Cats
-2 Red Wag Platy
-1 Yellow Sunburst Platy
-1 Black Molly
-1 Dalmation Molly
-1 Rubber Lip Pleco

Enough about that, here's what I read on my initial test:

-pH looked like 7.4 using the high pH test and looked like 7.6 using the standard.
-Ammonia looked very close to .5ppm, at worst a tad towards 1.0 but not much.
-NO2 looked to be 1.0ppm
-NO3 looked like 0ppm, but based on cycle progress probably normal at this stage.

So with this said, what do I continue to do? There was a lot of info mentioned and I want to make sure I continue the right path.

1. Do I still do water changes daily? Or every other day??
2. How much should I change? 25%, 50%, more??
3. How often do I test the water?
4. During cycling how often do I "rinse" the filter?

Anything else I should do or look out for please mention. Your help and feedback on these numbers and questions are appreciated.

Josh

 

[ImACoolguy]

Let's make this really simple. However much you need to keep these levels:

Keep ammonia under 1.0ppm

Keep nitrite under 0.50ppm

That's making this difficult is you have a good stocking amount already. Normally, just a few small fish are used. So don't be surprised if you are doing daily water changes. Don't think of the water changes as a hassle, I like to think of them as the lifeline during the fish in cycle, without the lifeline, your patients die.


Caleb

 

[Witt1121]

Makes sense, I'll monitor and address accordingly. I skipped a water change today, so I'll do another tomorrow. I'm thinking I'll do water changes of the 30-50% range every other day but test the water daily until I cycle. The water change frequency may change depending on the readings I get each day.

Once I cycle how often do you check your water levels?

Josh

 

[coralbandit]

Caleb offers good info.
Under 1ppm ammonia and .5 nitrite is best.
How much water do you need to change?
The % of water you change is the % the nutrient(ammonia,nitrite,nitrate) will be lowered.
An example is with 1ppm ammonia and a 50% waterchange you should end up with aprox .5 pp(you removed 1/2).
As far as after cycling you should be able to find you tanks pattern within a couple weeks of testing.
If you feed the same and don't change stocking the rise in nitrates should be fairly predictable over time.
Most just change 50% weekly but others do well letting their test guide them .

 

[Witt1121]

That helps and makes sense, thank you guys. I will let my tests guide my changes.

 

[brennae]

Did you purchase test strip or the API liquid Master Test Kit? Strips are not always accurate or reliable. If you can get the liquid test it you will be better off. It's cheapest on Amazon.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Witt1121]

Did you purchase test strip or the API liquid Master Test Kit? Strips are not always accurate or reliable. If you can get the liquid test it you will be better off. It's cheapest on Amazon.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Aquarium Advice mobile app

API kit per Caleb's advice.

 

[brennae]

API kit per Caleb's advice.

That's what you want.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[coralbandit]

That helps and makes sense, thank you guys. I will let my tests guide my changes.

Nice so now all you have to do is pick your "target" number for nitrates .
This should like I described become "rhythmic" if the tank is kept consistent.
IMO most shoot for keeping nitrates under 40(for a high) and around 10-20 on average if things are going smoothly.
Every tank is different so with your stocking and their needs you can decide what your target is.
Good luck!

 

[Witt1121]

Pictus died

So 1 of my Pictus Cats died and I'm baffled. The ammonia spiked tad yesterday and he was acting crazy, but I did a 65% water change to lower the ammonia and after that he seemed cool. I'm baffled because the level wasn't that high for long. The night before I was at 1.0ppm and before the change it was maybe 2.0ppm. On top of that this Pictus was by far the more active with swimming and eating regularly.

I'm actually going to the pet store tonight to get Prime because I'm almost out of water conditioner and this looks to be recommended by you guys and if I read is an all in 1 treatment. I'm on a daily water change and test schedule from here until it cycles. I want to warranty the Pictus, but do not want to jeopardize losing a new one too. I know it's probably best to wait until full cycle to replace him, but I'd have to believe if I am more diligent I can effectively cycle with the fish I have. Am I wrong? Do I have too many fish right now??

Let me know what you think, thanks in advance-

Josh